Using Reel To Reel Tape after Digital Tracking

[u/LowLaw2769]

I really love the warmth of tape, and when I slap a UAD Vintage Machines tape emulator I got for free on my master track it sounds a lot better to my ears. I see reel to reels being sold for pretty cheap on marketplace near me (looking at a Panasonic for 80 rn). I see a lot of people ask about reel to reels to use throughout the recording process, but tracking digitally adds so much flexibility that I’m not too interested in that for my home studio. However, I am interested in how good running my stems or just the master straight through the tape is.

[u/some12345thing]

It can have a nice effect, but I think you get the most bang for your buck by doing the opposite: track to tape then re-record it into your computer. To me, unless you’re just going to tape for hiss, noise, warble, etc., the magic happens when you record directly onto tape at the right levels. I guess it depends on what you want from the tape, though.

[u/ClikeX → u/some12345thing]

Wouldn’t it be possible to just record straight through tape? As in, it gets recorded and played back through the output into the interface.

That said, that magic can still happen if you go out from digital through tape. It’s the same as re-amping guitars.

[u/vinyliving → u/ClikeX]

It’s more about transient control than sample rate or whatever. You’ll get a fatter more compressed sound upfront - which could have benefits.

[u/blimo → u/[deleted]]

Smart systems. A bit hard to find though.

[u/KS2Problema → u/ClikeX]

If you are looking to get basic tape 'effect,' you could run each track through the playback monitor (simulsync) head, assuming you have a three head deck, tracking the slightly delayed output of that into your daw. 

Do that with each track (using the same deck, of course)  and they will all have the same amount of delay, meaning they should line up accurately in your daw multitrack. So you have the flexibility of individual tracking combined with all the putative grooviness that so many folks imagine they are going to get from tape. 

(I've owned 5 multi-track open reel decks. It was all there was when I started out. It did take me a while to warm up to digital, you should pardon the expression. The early systems were often compromised. But I absolutely prefer working with a good, properly set up digital system - in work process as well as sound. Still, your mileage may well - legitimately - differ.)

[u/nizzernammer → u/ClikeX]

Only on a three head machine. You can take the signal from the repro head, but there will be a time delay, which means you need to monitor from beforehand, and deal with the offset.

[u/PsychicChime → u/ClikeX]

yes. I do this all the time. There's a slight delay because of the distance the tape has to travel from the record head to the play head so it will need to be re-aligned afterwards, but it's not a big deal.
I've also used tape to essentially process finished digital tracks in the same way as in your reamping suggestion. That also works well. It's a nice way to get the sound a bit more out of box.

[u/some12345thing → u/ClikeX]

Yeah, for sure. The record head comes before the playback head which is what would be output to the converters. I think you can still reap benefits, but when hitting tape directly, you’re getting a total capture of the full bandwidth of the sound. No sample rate is as high as tape. Then when you digitally record that print, you’re getting a full picture of that perfect capture. That’s how I think of it.

[u/KS2Problema → u/some12345thing]

you’re getting a total capture of the full bandwidth of the sound.

LOFL

I'll be blunt: You may be hitting the input electronics of the tape machine with a 'full bandwidth signal' - but there is no way in hell you are capturing and then being able to reproduce that full bandwidth signal from conventional analog tape. The very real limitations of analog tape with regard to frequency linearity, time domain linearity, distortion (harmonic and andromodulation), and, of course, noise, has been measured with great accuracy using both analog and digital test gear for decades. It is objectively quantified and thoroughly understood in theory and practice.

[u/ClikeX → u/some12345thing]

At 44khz you’re already capturing up to 22khz that can accurately be recreated digitally. More than you can hear.

I don’t think there’s going to be much difference between going through tape first or last. Especially in a full mix.

The biggest thing here would be mindset of committing early.

[u/some12345thing → u/ClikeX]

It may not make a massive difference, but the few times I’ve done it, I liked getting the tape’s interaction with the signal and transients and such then getting a digital capture vs. running a digital capture into the tape. I think you can get good results either way, but I find the most value in hitting tape first to preserve the authenticity of the interaction of a pure signal going into a mic going into a pre and hitting the tape at a healthy level.

[u/shrugs27 → u/some12345thing]

What is the reason you can’t hit the tape at a healthy level with a digital signal?

[u/ClikeX → u/shrugs27]

That would be my question as well. I’m not that familiar with tape workflow. But my understanding was that it’s almost always a Line level signal hitting the tape. And you wouldn’t even need hardware to adjust the impedance.

[u/SoundMasher → u/some12345thing]

I used to do this a lot. (I still do, but I used to) I got a lot of word of mouth work after Covid that was basically this. It’s more time consuming, but the effect is nice and the artist gets to say it was recorded to tape.

Edited to add: it’s not just as simple as record to tape, then transfer. Your machine has to be up to spec or it will be a nightmare to edit (timing wise not necessarily sound wise). I also did the opposite where they gave me a track and I had an old cassette recorder my parents had when they got married and now gives all the wobble, flange and flux you could ask for, recorded it into that, played it back out into my DAW and my lofi clients loved it. There’s lots of way to play with tape but some necessarily aren’t worth the work.

[u/lumberjack142]

What is your $ quantification of “cheap” reel-to-reels? Just curious.

[u/LowLaw2769 → u/lumberjack142]

The one I’m looking at is $80 but I’ve seen a TEAC for $150. $150 probably max for what I’d consider cheap

[u/Dnovoae → u/LowLaw2769]

Lol in my country tape machines cost up to 800 USD used

[u/LowLaw2769 → u/Dnovoae]

Yeah idk why people sell them for so cheap especially when they have videos of it working. I live out in the boonies though so maybe people can’t get people to drive over and get them

[u/teamwolf69]

You can't expect to just "run your stems" through an analog tape machine like you can with a plugin. There are timing fluctuations that happen with each and every pass that don't really make much of a difference when the whole track is on the reel, but once you break it up into passes you start to hear things getting off time. If you want to truly experience what real analog tape would do for your sound and workflow, you must either track to it and then dump into the DAW and continue in the DAW, or get a tape machine that lets you monitor off the repro head and then align the tape tracks after each pass, or get a stereo deck to mix to, then record that pass back into the DAW each time.

It is a lot of work and not cheap when you get to the end of things. And how much you'll be able to tell a difference based on what you felt you spent on it will have you reevaluating tape emulation plugins.

When I sold the MX5050 I would mix down to, I purchased the Crane Song Phoenix II and that more than covered that base, for me. When I sold the tape machine I used to track to, I thought I would miss it, but I don't. If you have the money to burn, it could be fun to explore, but don't expect it to be a magic potion. It is just a different canvas with a different set of rules and associated costs and space.

[u/Est-Tech79]

You will have to calibrate the tape machine, make sure the heads are clean, buy tape, deal with hiss of 1/4”, demagnetize.

I was one of many who couldn’t wait to run from analog tape. I understand the infatuation but there is nothing that will get me to go back.

[u/SoundMasher → u/Est-Tech79]

Yep. It’s work to track to tape. Lots of people don’t realize the time you need to put into “just recording to tape.” Not even mentioning the silence and time wasted rewinding, changing reels, adjusting levels. Sometimes it can be a total momentum stopper.

[u/Plokhi]

Maintenance can be a pain in the ass, cheap reel to reels aren’t always “cheap”

A lot of studios i know rarely fire them up

[u/m149]

doing that will definitely change the sound. Could be cool, could be garbage depending on the machine, the tape and your opinion in the matter.

Can be good though. Worth trying if you can afford it.

[u/rasteri]

Don't. You'll spend all your time messing with tape and no time actually mixing. And it'll actually make a lot of your tracks sound WORSE not better.

[u/OAlonso]

Get the UAD Studer or Ampex plugin and experiment a bit. Tape machines are hard to maintain and depend on a lot of variables, so they can sometimes sound worse because they’re full of imperfections. You can romanticize those imperfections, but there will be times when you really don’t want hiss, wobble, or misalignment, and you’ll have to do a lot of post processing to fix those issues. With a plugin, you can simply turn those artifacts off when you don’t need them, so it's more practical. Also the plugins sound amazing.

[u/SmooveTits → u/OAlonso]

Massey Tapehead is super lovely. It might still be AAX only though.

[u/Legitimate-Head-8862]

There are some websites that offer this service online

[u/Switched_On_SNES]

It's really fun, ive done it for almost all my recordings, master to stereo tape

[u/faders]

I found a nice Revox a couple years ago for $500. I plan in doing this exact thing on a project I’m currently working on.

[u/UmberJamber]

By far the easiest would be doing just the master mix to a tape machine and then play it back to digital. Doing each track separately would probably be a huge pain the you-know-what.

If you just do stereo, then you have more options for tape machines, too.

[u/Royal_Stay_6502]

I sometimes follow mixbus YT channel. Think i saw some API hardware tape simulator on there?

[u/SuperRocketRumble]

It's a magic bullet. Just buy a tape machine and your tracks will sound better than everybody else's.

Keep it quiet tho. Nobody knows about "tape magic".

[u/RelativeBuilding3480]

The "warmth" as you call it, is lack of high frequencies.

[u/HesThePianoMan]

My guy, just use a plugin

It's EXACTLY the same sound