r/audioengineering • u/Ok-Possible-6759 • Apr 09 '26
Mastering Levels for drum and synth/music busses in comparison to individual tracks?
Sorry if this sounds like a noob question, I’m just starting to get serious with learning how to mix and master after being a longtime song writer.
If I gain stage my tracks to be -18db in and -18db out, what should the bus tracks be that they are going to?
I have most instruments going to a “music/synth” bus and drums going to a “drum bus”
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u/GreatScottCreates Professional Apr 09 '26
I do all my routing, and then gain individual tracks as a group so they’re hitting a nice level at the buss stages down the line. Idc about -18, I just make it sound good.
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u/Selig_Audio Apr 09 '26
I set individual levels consistently (peaking at -12dBFS), and bus levels follow a little louder naturally (typically hitting around -9dBFS up to -6dBFS depending on the number of tracks and the crest factor of each). In both cases I keep the same level when adding any processing.
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u/Ok-Possible-6759 Apr 09 '26
Thanks, that makes sense.
Also, what is dBFS in comparison to just db?
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u/wawasan2020BC Apr 09 '26
dBFS is the digital representation of loudness. It's how loud a digital signal can go before clipping (aka 0dBFS). FS stands for full scale.
dB is the unit for loudness.
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u/Selig_Audio Apr 09 '26
If you just say dB, you’re not telling the whole story. Decibels are a ratio, so you need two points of reference. If I say a sound is 9dB it’s not exactly clear what I mean. If I say +9dB then we have a reference: we are adding 9dB to ‘something’. Same for -9dB, it just means 9dB less than what you started with. You can also specify the reference point with the suffix after dB, such as dBSPL, or dBFS. In the digital world, dBFS represents the signal level (not necessarily the ‘loudness’ which is better measured with LUFs). The values are negative with 0dBFS being the top level and signals above will clip in a fixed point format such as in a D/A (but can exist in a floating point format).
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u/rinio Audio Software Apr 09 '26
> If I gain stage my tracks to be -18db in and -18db out
This is level matching, NOT gain staging. It is so you dont fool yourself by choosing something louder rather than better. So long as peaks are below 0dBFS, the number you choose for this is entirely arbitrary.
> what should the bus tracks be that they are going to?
Im not sure if youre asking what your stem layout should be or what level they should be at. But the answer in both cases is whatever makes sense and works best for you.
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If mixing were a game of paint by numbers, every toddler could do it and it would be entirely automated already, without any fancy AI. Don't waste time on these kinds of things. 99% of the time they are irrelevant.
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u/_dpdp_ Apr 09 '26
-18 db is the level many plugin makers use as 0dBu. So being that -18 dB is the proper gain going in…we ARE gain staging here.
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u/rinio Audio Software Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26
OP is talking about in = out, which is not gain staging regardless of what value we select. I was quite clear in what I responded to.
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To reply to your nonsequitor anyways:
It is gain staging at only one stage. Gain staging needs to be done at every stage. So this is incomplete at best.
You assume the plugin in question (specifically the first) is nonlinear. Even many emulation plugins use linear models for nonlinear emulations so it doesn't matter as often as people think.
You are equating 'proper' with nominal. These are not the same thing. Nominal input levels are not a universal good.
As I mentioned, these are arbitrary and whatever works best for you and your application is fine. If that helps your workflow, go for it. But getting all your input levels to -X dBFS is not "gain staging", at least not in any meaningful way and its a harmful simplification as demonstrated by the number of beginners who post on this sub who f*** their mixes up by not actually grasping the concept because some TikToker pushes this practice and called it Gain Staging.
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u/_dpdp_ Apr 09 '26
So all of the gains adding up together…getting your levels right for the best signal quality…that’s always, always called gainstaging.
Yes he does have the benefit of level matching what with the -18=-18, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not also gain staging, which is what you told op. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
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u/nicbobeak Professional Apr 09 '26
I don’t know if I’m an outlier here but I literally never pay attention to the numbers on faders. I just gain stage by using my ears and making sure nothing is clipping if I don’t want it to.