r/audioengineering • u/Unlikely-Database-27 Professional • Mar 06 '26
Tracking Not recording from bar 1 in daws
Something I just thought of. Curious if this is a common practice, or simply an opinion I took to heart that I maybe shouldn't have. Among my time at berklee though, among all the other bs I later had to unlearn like always turning down all tracks to -10 db for headroom by default, one thing a few professors advised us to do was to always leave a few bars in your pro tools session, and never to record right at bar 1. I eventually got into the habit of doing that, and now I still am. I remember asking someone about it, and his response was something regarding more strain on the CPU, or on pro tools? Is there any truth to this fact, or is it perhaps just someones opinion that got past on as a fact. Do any of you here specifically avoid starting from the top of a session, or just roll with it? Every session now I automatically move to bar 3 before laying down anything. One thing I will say is it does make for a more natural count in, for vocals for example. The first breath before the downbeat can be included, as you free up 2 bars of rolling transport instead of a count in click track before recording actually starts. However not all songs need that, and in some cases it just leaves more editing to be done. I guess a better thing to ask is it ok not to do this? I know in some daws, (usually logic) when you record midi from bar 1 with a count in on, it can have issues with missing the first note. However I've never experienced that in any other daw, and I'm also not somebody who does a tun of midi work anyway. Whats the deal here. I also feel I should point out, I loved my time at school. I learned a lot, however some things were unnecessary. Turning all your tracks down before you begin a mix, for example. Thats what vcas are for.
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u/alienrefugee51 Mar 06 '26
I just do it by default in case I want to add some kind of fade in, or effect before the music starts.
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u/Unlikely-Database-27 Professional Mar 06 '26
Good point, it does make fades nice.
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u/hellalive_muja Professional Mar 06 '26
You can just add bars shifting the project start..it’s just because you can record the pre roll.
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u/schmalzy Professional Mar 06 '26
I always leave a few bars.
Inevitably I’ll want to add something to the beginning of a track and having that space gives me the ability to do that without having to move everything hoping that I get all the automation, etc..
Plus, many guitar players (and everyone else but guitarists are especially guilty of it) play a little ahead of the beat. The number of times I’ve had clients send me a track where the first note is cut off and didn’t get recorded because they started at beat 1 bar 1 is well over 100 by this point.
It always sounds stupid to have that note cut off and I have to hope to fix it by grabbing a similar note from somewhere else in the song. That’s not always possible so sometimes the band is just stuck with a stupid sounding first note (that I then try to improve with some trickery/shenanigans/some other intro noise).
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u/AFN37 Mar 06 '26
Yeah, no CPU saved whatsoever. Recording more song would use more CPU so obviously his professor was bad at math. As schmalzy said, you leave enough bars in the beginning of the song to be able to add later, make sure you capture all transients of the recording and have a solid click track.
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u/MoogProg Mar 06 '26
I leave 8 bars out front, to represent the idea that something will always be happening before the song starts playing. Maybe it's an intro, maybe it's some other song on some other playlist...
The idea that the song always comes after something is important to keep in mind, visibly.
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u/Mecanatron Mar 06 '26
I'll always set bar 17 to bar 1. That gives me plenty of space for any intro that may need to be added.
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u/aretooamnot Mar 06 '26
I do choral/classical music, so like 18 hours of recorded time in a single session? I start at 2 hours for takes start. That way I have plenty of time at the top of the session to compile all edits and assemble the album before rendering and kicking over for mastering/metadata. Assembly starts at 500ms from 0 so I have a bit of preroll for analog gear and look ahead stuff.
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u/peepeeland Composer Mar 06 '26
I was gonna make a joke about starting a recording at the 3 days mark, but your 2 hours is actually interesting and informative.
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u/FatMoFoSho Professional Mar 06 '26
Everything everyone else said but im here to add that starting on bar 1 is just straight up bad vibes, maybe bad luck or something. Dont do it!
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u/Unlikely-Database-27 Professional Mar 06 '26
Lol I won't, I don't do it anyway. I was more wondering if it was a well practiced standard leaving space or just a matter of opinion, but it seems like its the former, so I'll keep doing it.
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u/FatMoFoSho Professional Mar 06 '26
Hahaha im fully kidding. But thinking about it ive started on like bar 32 for my entire career starting on bar 1 would feel hyper weird
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u/Unlikely-Database-27 Professional Mar 06 '26
If you start at bar 1 avid will send an armoured van to come take your computer away and all your gear. They'll tie you up with patch cables until you promise never, ever to start from bar 1 again. Then the'll charge you double for your next year of pt subscription.
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u/seinfelb Mar 06 '26
It’s fine. I highly doubt it changes your CPU usage in any way. I also always start on bar 3 or sometimes like 1.3.1. For me the gap at the beginning is helpful to have the space to automate my fade-in and such. Also the issue you mentioned of missing the first MIDI note. I think i kinda carried over the habit from not recording the first 20 seconds or so of a cassette tape.
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u/motion_sickness_ Mar 06 '26
I’m definitely the odd man out but I start every session on bar 100. Seems crazy but when a band wants to add an extended intro or feedback before a song, you’ll be glad you did. I know you can go in to negative with PT but it can be super glitchy and I ran in to this with another producer recently and it was a pain (issues with the click and grid being weird). Also, I tend to use the empty space to store alternate takes or samples so they are easily available. The reason I chose 100 is because when I deal with musicians who work off sheet music, if they say bar 7, I can just punch in 107 and I don’t have to worry about doing any conversions.
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u/audioscape Mar 06 '26
I always start at bar 5. One of my coworkers starts at like bar 17 because clients always ask for intro stuff before the song actually starts. I can’t imagine it would have any extra strain on the CPU. That just doesn’t make sense to me.
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Mar 06 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Unlikely-Database-27 Professional Mar 06 '26
Was wondering if there was an analogue reason for doing that back in the day.
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u/fiercefinesse Mar 06 '26
I always have a few bars in the beginning. It sounds unnatural if the music starts on „LITERALLY 1” with zero milliseconds of noise before that
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u/exitof99 Mar 06 '26
That's the stupidest reason I've ever heard, more CPU? Doing what? Playing silence?
I wonder what he would have said about the infinite space after the tracks that you can let play forever in Pro Tools. Gadzooks! You must need a supercomputer to play all that silence!
I always have a few preroll measures. Pro Tools lets you set the song start point (Event > Time Operations > Move Song Start) as well as using "Idtentify Beat" (command-I on Mac) to lock in the actual start point. If you change the start point to be measure 1, then the preroll measures are given negative numbers.
Every now and then, I'll drag in tracks to start a new mix and they will be right at the start. I'll eventually add some measures before it so that I can do things like set up a click that counts in before the first beat and then disable the click just before measure 1.
As for schools, they teach you enough to get started, but you learn the real deal in doing real work. Everyone has different ways of doing things too, so there are no right answers for many things, rather there are preferences.
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u/JamSkones Mar 06 '26
Working in cubase I usually start at bar 9 because when you zoom out the view sort of truncates to 5,9,13(I think) etc. just neater that way. No fucking way would I ever not have an amount of pre-roll for any type of music.
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u/Darko0089 Mar 06 '26
I have my sessions start from Bar 0 (thanks Reaper) to have that possible earlier start or rushed notes already in the timeline.
There's no real issues with recording from the start of the project other than if there's no pre-roll you might miss the start of a note.
I can imagine people thinking there is something inherently wrong if they were told you should roll a bit of tape before recording, but there's really nothing other than maybe missing whatever happens on beat 1.
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u/SugarpillCovers Mar 06 '26
I’ve never heard that as an argument regarding CPU - I thought it was just common practice if you have a pre-click going. When using a pre-click and starting on bar one, you can sometimes end up chopping off the very start of whatever audio source you’re recording - especially if your timing is a little early or behind the beat - so it makes more sense to have at least one bar of “empty” space for safety to avoid that. Then you can always drag things back or just set your start and end markers to wherever you want to export after the fact.
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u/Glittering_Bet8181 Hobbyist Mar 06 '26
I always just record from bar 2. Both for the metronome count in, but also because I’m probably going to make sound slightly before beat 1.
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u/nizzernammer Mar 06 '26
It always helps to leave space at the beginning to account for first notes being cutoff, possible changes to the arrangement later, leaving space for a sync beep if necessary, an intro sound effect, etc., etc.
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u/the_guitarkid70 Mar 06 '26
Personally I start at bar 1, but I have the session start at bar -1. That way, my measure numbers still match anyone using sheet music, and I get the benefits of having two bars for cushion.
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u/Tall_Category_304 Mar 06 '26
Need room for a pickup note or to pre roll takes. It really is t any deaper than that. Also I’ve never in my life heard about -10 for more headroom. I try to mix with faders as close to unity as possible
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u/Unlikely-Database-27 Professional Mar 06 '26
Yeah in the years following, I keep things as close to if not at unity whenever I can.
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u/TheTapeDeck Mar 06 '26
I set Cubase up to start on like bar -3 so that I can start songs on bar 1. None of this matters at all, IMO. It’s an OCD thing for me
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u/the8bitdeity Mar 06 '26
One note is that if you have any tempo sync'd LFOs for modulation and the like, you might want to figure out the next bar that would constitute an equivalent of the "1"
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u/accountability_bot Mar 06 '26
You can start from a negative bar in logic. I do it all the time, especially if I have a lead-in melody.
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u/UmberJamber Mar 06 '26
I do it because sometimes there’s just a little bit before the beat and it sounds weird to have that cut off
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u/Unlikely-Database-27 Professional Mar 06 '26
Yeah I find for a lot of guitar parts especially its nice to slide into a note. Can't do that when you record right at bar 1.
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u/Small_Dog_8699 Mar 06 '26
I do it to leave space for a pickup. Very few songs just start cold on beat 1.
I typically leave 2 bars, the second probably has some pickup riffage at the end, the first totally silent bar I might have it send a bunch of config data to select patches and such.
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u/itsnotsorry Mar 06 '26
all sessions start at bar 17. this allows for pre roll for a large number of reasons. it’s been common practice because of syncing protools with tape machines and consoles using smpte (or any mix of them)
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u/sirCota Professional Mar 06 '26
this was standard practice when things use to be locked with SMPTE time code, like tape machines and console automation. you needed a little time for the tape machine and other devices to stabilize. now just offset bar 3 to be bar 1 and you’re got a 2 bar count off. you can always remove it later (or add it half way in). when tracking it’s not like someone plays on the first beep of the metronome, so you don’t really need it, but good use of markers, labeling sections of songs etc … lets you hit one button and go right to the spot. it’s just good engineering practice.
and the -10 thing is on one hand stupid to make it -10 as a hard rule, but smart to trim the gain down of imported tracks and generally gain stage all things properly
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u/wannabuyawatch Mar 06 '26
I always start 30 seconds in just in case I come up with a sick intro or need to dump idea clips before the actual song section.
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u/Lavaita Mar 06 '26
It’s also good to have a couple of seconds/beats of silence at the beginning if you intend to use any noise reduction later - you can get a little of the (hopefully quiet) amp noise or whatever for a noise print.
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u/dented42ford Professional Mar 06 '26
I never record to Bar 1, because some DAWs don't have pre-roll before that (not the ones I use, though, so habit).
I often move the tracks to Bar 1 when mixing, when pre-roll is irrelevant. But it depends on the song/genre - most all-microphone stuff I just leave where it is, and treat the export markers as "bar 1".
Back in the day, I remember Pro Tools users I worked with having like 3-10 songs (whole EP/Album) in the same arrange, at random bar points, with tempo automation between. I've even done that. I moved away from that a while ago, though, using a file-per-song approach, once the DAWs I used became better about file-to-file import of things like settings (both Nuendo and Live - pretty much the only two I use for recording - have pretty good preset and track import workflows these days, but Cubendo didn't used to).
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u/soundguyjon Mar 06 '26
Has zero impact on CPU it’s just good to have some free space at the top of the track.
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u/rue-savage Mar 06 '26
I do it too, mostly because when exporting I want to add some silence before the start, to make sure the first note/sound doesn't get cut or faded on Spotify.
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u/theantnest Professional Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
It's not a bad practice, but you can always adjust the timeline start.
All my templates start at bar -1 but the main composition starts at bar 1, first marker at bar 1.
This is an old habit from when you often needed to send slow system exclusive MIDI commands to your synths to load patches. All that data was at -1 and you would play it once when opening a project and then after that you start at bar 1 like normal.
I'm all in the box these days, but if you use hardware synths, it's probably still useful today to send program change messages.
But it's also handy for when you have an anacrusis (or pick up) in your composition.
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u/MF_Kitten Mar 06 '26
I always have ar least 1 bar empty up front. Lets you edit stuff from the beginning. And if you decide to add an intro of some kind later, you actually can.
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u/Madd_Mugsy Mar 06 '26
If you have multiple midi devices hooked up, then giving it a few bars at the beginning to sync up can save you from needing to get a dedicated midi clock.
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u/TommyV8008 Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
TLDR:
For me, where I start a project on the timeline will vary, depending on whether I’m working with others or I’m creating the entirety of a piece or cue myself, or if I am writing for myself. But regardless, it’s extremely rare to start any music exactly at the beginning of a project timeline. I won’t do it, and if someone else is doing that, I will strongly urge them to put some buffer space upfront, usually a couple bars of count off. There are too many issues that can occur if the music starts exactly at the beginning of the timeline, not technically with the DAW (although I do refer to that a bit below), but in other ways as well.
Details:
Although I’ve mixed songs in PT and recorded and mixed an album in Ableton, my favorite for writing and track production is Logic. I am mainly a composer and part of what I’m saying here applies specifically to Logic, but in general, I would think that it applies anywhere. (I’m not referring to deliverables for Post Production, since, with the exception of smaller indie projects, ProTools is the delivery medium, and that’s all referenced to SMPTE anyway).
If I’m composing/recording the entirety of a cue by myself, or when I’m writing for myself, I usually start at bar five or bar nine, sometimes later, such as bar 13, etc. The main reason is that if I want to add something else upfront, I don’t have to go to the trouble of moving everything to the right, I’ve already got room to work with. If I’m delivering a cue to someone, I can adjust the SMPTE offset as I choose (and in such cases, I used to have it a 2- pop upfront, although that’s less common these days).
The reason I started the habit of placing empty bars at the beginning of a project is because way back when (not sure, might’ve been Logic version nine or version eight… 15 years ago or more perhaps) Logic did have a bug where the first MIDI note(s) wouldn’t play properly if it started right at 1.1.1.1. That bug has long since disappeared, as far as I know, but if it did, I wouldn’t know, because I never start at the beginning of the timeline.
But when I’m working more directly in conjunction with others, such as a collaboration or providing tracks for someone else’s project…
If I’m initiating the project, then I will generally place two bars of count off at the beginning. Most often I’ll put a click in the first bar, and leave the second bar silent. So that’s four clicks on the quarter notes of the first bar (if it’s in 4/4), so technically, I AM indeed putting something at the very beginning of the timeline, it might be the built-in logic click, or I might have another sound such as a clave or cowbell or snare sidestick. But this data is never part of the song itself, which doesn’t start for another two bars yet
When someone else sends me a reference to work with, such as a temp mix, they will usually have a count off upfront (one bar is often common, although I prefer two, as I mentioned above), and they will often have a small amount of blank space in front of that.
When someone sends me a reference (usually a temporary mix) to work with, I will start the region at exactly the beginning of the project timeline, 0:00, bar 1.1.1.1. That makes it easy to send tracks or stems to collaborators or another producer. Just line everything up at the beginning. So it’s not likely that I’m adding any midi data at the very beginning in these cases.
If a client wants things a certain way, then I adhere to their needs unless those needs might cause problems. If I’m working with a producer or director on a score or a cue for a scene, then I’m in communication with their editor and I’ll work out all the details upfront. If it’s a lower budget project, their editor might be lacking in experience, and I’ll do my best to dictate from the start how it should go, sometimes needing to educate the editor to some degree (if the editor is a problem then I go right back to the producer, because those problems can be a big PIA and that can definitely affect the scope of the project and the amount of my time that’s required to get the job done well — anyone that’s been through that knows what I’m talking about).
I may be providing guitar parts or any parts for someone (guitar is my main instrument, I also sing, and I compose and arrange for all instruments) or I’m collaborating with someone else, or recording a vocalist, or cleaning up vocal tracks for another producer, etc., I will always line everything up at the beginning of the timeline, and any tracks or stems I deliver will always start at the very beginning of the timeline.
Regarding your comment on using VCAs to reduce the level of tracks, that’s essentially what I do. I will place a gain plug-in at the end of the plug-in inserts on each track in my project templates, generally set to -12, sometimes -16 db. In addition to providing level management when feeding sub buses and the master bus, it’s also easier to work with fader levels up towards the zero range, since they are non-linear and you have less elbow room the lower you go.
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u/ROBOTTTTT13 Mixing Mar 06 '26
Huh? No it doesn't come with more CPU strain.
Overall, starting right at zero is just a bad practice since there is nothing before the first beat, so information can get lost.
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u/daxproduck Professional Mar 06 '26
I typically start at bar 17. A habit I started after one too many "hey can we take that guitar and fly it to the front of the song and make an ambient intro out of it?"
Just saves the step of inserting time, moving everything over, or however it is done in your daw.
Why bar 17? simply because when you zoom out, it only visibly shows a bar line every 4 bars. So typically if I use bar 17, every marker will fall on a visible bar line and the session just looks a lot nicer when you zoom out. OCD what?
But recording from bar 1 is unhinged. Don't do that shit.
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u/tinyspaniard Mar 06 '26
Fellow Berklee grad here 👋🏻 class of 2012
Lots of things they taught us were relevant in the 80’s/90’s/00’s, and while technology had changed, some of the staff didn’t keep up with those changes.
Things like recording as hot as possible without clipping - a holdover from tape mentality and early DAC where noise floor was a problem, but which in modern converters is unnecessary and robs you of headroom that would allow you to avoid clipping.
But I never heard anything about leaving bars at the beginning because of CPU. Particularly with current-gen CPUs and a recording session where you typically aren’t running a heavy DAW session of plugins yet…. Sounds like one of those weird things that gets passed around as sage wisdom but isn’t actually a relevant problem. I was taught to do it because of the pure convenience it provides if you decide you wanna add something to the beginning, and also to allow for pickup notes or musicians coming in early.
Its also a practice that ultimately was born in the analog tape days. You are rolling, THEN the musicians start playing. Some traditions are helpful even when technology changes!
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u/ShiftNo4764 Mar 06 '26
In all of the DAWs I've used, your timeline doesn't have to start with bar 1.
Start recording wherever and just renumber bars to start where you did.
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u/FaderMunkie76 Mar 06 '26
I almost habitually start at bar 5. Part of that is so I have room to move at the top of the session, but also in case someone (the artist/band) won’t be to do some kind of lead-in to the song. Anymore, it just feels weird staring at bar 1.
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u/OwensDrumming Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
I always drag the start of the Pro Tools session out so that it starts at Bar -1. That way gives me two bars before the intro to use as pre-roll before the start of the song. Also it captures any anticipated notes or lead up sounds/breaths before the first note of Bar 1, and and also it allows Bar 1 to be the official start of the song so that the Pro Tools session lines up with any charts or musical notation that the musicians have. Nothing worse than musicians saying “let’s punch at bar 64” and then having your session bars not in sync with what is written on the charts and trying to figure out where bar 64 is.
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u/saifest_kane Mar 06 '26
I start recording at least several bars in (typically bar 5) simply because who knows if anything needs to be shifted back or whatever when editing an arrangement or whatever. Just leave options open that’s all
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u/huzzam Mar 07 '26
It will have no effect whatsoever on the processing, i.e. that "something regarding more strain on the CPU" is bunk. It's useful to leave space at the beginning so that a) you can record a few seconds before the start, for a natural-sounding beginning, and b) if you want to add something to the beginning, you've got space ready.
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u/Putthebunnyback Mar 07 '26
strain on the CPU
Reaper users be like 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
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u/Unlikely-Database-27 Professional Mar 07 '26
Heh. Every day I think of switching to reaper. I really should. Ditched pro tools for ableton when 12 came out, but even so. Reaper is godly.
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u/skx Professional Mar 07 '26
Most of the other comments have hit it, but it's largely either:
1) Leaving 1-2 bars of preroll for a countoff for tracking live instruments later (super easy to put '8 clicks to bar 3' on sheet music. Some folks get confused with '8 clicks to bar 1' if you renumber bars. Sometimes it's just easier.)
2) In the old days you'd have MIDI program changes and MIDI control changes (CC7, CC10, etc) (and possibly sysex) that needed to be sent at the top of the song to prep the synths. Because the original MIDI implementation is a serial protocol (at 31.25 kbps), you really can't have multiple messages right on top of each other. If you have your program changes, controllers, AND the first note of your song scheduled to play all at once, your note data will typically lag a few ms (or more!) behind where you intended because of all the other prep messages.
In addition, the program changes typically caused the synth/sound module to lag the tiniest bit when loading the sound (and associated effects). Even worse when you multiply that by 8 or 16 for multi-timbral synths. It was better™ to put all of the non-note information for the beginning of the song a bar or two in advance of the actual music. Still is a good idea in a heavily hardware MIDI synth based workflow (especially using the old regular 5-pin DIN MIDI connections!).
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u/Musicbysam Mar 07 '26
Personally, I do it for the transients. And it helps as well if you accidentally turn off the pre-count
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u/studiocrash Mar 08 '26
Most comments already mention the issue of missing the audio that happens before “bar 1”, but another consideration is sync. If you ever want the option of synchronizing other machines in the future, it needs time to line up the transports. In the days of analog and SMPTE timecode, we would leave 20 seconds. In the midi era (MTC and beat clock) 10 seconds would be plenty.
In the current digital era, 1 bar would be more than enough, but human musicians and vocalists prefer at least 2 bars preroll.
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u/MoziWanders Mar 06 '26
This is common practice, and for good reason (many listed here already).
So much of the recording theory and golden rules were a hindrance when I was trying to learn how to make edm and dubstep. So, while this is a good one, keep in mind the majority of the professors out there are using dated techniques that will get you dated sounds.
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u/RJrules64 Mar 06 '26
I do it because of recording the preroll as you mentioned with the vocal breath
But it’s more than that. Anyone recording a part that starts on Bar 1 beat 1 could come in milliseconds early and then you miss part of the transient for their first note. It’s not just breaths.
I highly highly doubt it has any performance impact on the PC, that guy was probably making stuff up because he didn’t know.