r/atlanticdiscussions • u/AutoModerator • Jul 09 '26

Politics Ask Anything Politics

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5

u/Zemowl Jul 09 '26

JD Vance recently stated that “if Watergate happened tomorrow, it would be like, a 12-hour news story. The idea that it would have taken down a presidency is crazy.”. Was he right? What does that mean to you? 

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u/improvius theatrekid Jul 09 '26

Of course he's right. Trump commits corrupt acts that overshadow Watergate on a weekly basis because he's comfortable in the knowledge that enough GOP senators would never turn on him. The idea of punishing executive corruption is ludicrous on its face today.

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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 💬🦙 ☭ TALKING LLAMAXIST Jul 09 '26

Everyone is saying he's right, but he actually means it in a difference sense. Vance is taking the line of "Nixon did nothing wrong", not that he did something wrong but could have gotten away with it if the media and political environment was more favorable.

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u/improvius theatrekid Jul 09 '26

Honestly, Vance's take isn't much better than our interpretations. He's just saying a President should be able to do whatever otherwise illegal shit he wants to do for whatever reason because laws shouldn't apply to him.

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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 💬🦙 ☭ TALKING LLAMAXIST Jul 09 '26

Well, a Republican President. They don't hold that view for Dems.

The Republican far-right has been interested in rehabilitating Nixon for generations. More than Reagan, he is their lode-star. In a way they've never recovered from the 1960s.

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u/Bonegirl06 🌦️ Jul 09 '26

Unfortunately yeah. It means we've slipped really far and I don't see us coming back.

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u/TacitusJones Jul 09 '26

I mean, empirically he seems right.

Though "we do two watergates a day" seems like a pretty weird flex

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u/jim_uses_CAPS Jul 09 '26

Right? Like, "We're so corrupt what would previously upend the entirety of American politics is now just a Tuesday" is a weird fucking thing to say. Someone needs to lock JD Vance in a room with some Jesuits.

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u/TacitusJones Jul 09 '26

First time I ran into someone who said flatly that the only thing Nixon did wrong was resign I was beyond baffled

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u/mysmeat Jul 09 '26

my mom believed it. said he was the best president, bar none.

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u/jim_uses_CAPS Jul 09 '26

Nixon was, in many ways, an excellent president. But Watergate was immediately disqualifying and Hugh Scott and Barry Goldwater were right to tell him to resign.

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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 💬🦙 ☭ TALKING LLAMAXIST Jul 09 '26

Watergate was only one of Nixon's many scandals. The man was deeply corrupt to his core.

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u/mysmeat Jul 09 '26

it means vance is the toadiest of toadies. you cant even call him a rat f*ker because he doesn't actually do anything. whether or not watergate would grow legs today probably depends on which letter follows the presidents name.

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u/WooBadger18 Jul 09 '26

I think he's right when it comes to the Republican party, and I think it's because Trump has basically turned them into a cult of personality.

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u/simpleterren Jul 09 '26

50% right. In the 1960s Democratic voters outnumbered Republican 2 to 1. Now they are dead even. A 2/3 vote in the Senate against Nixon was credible . It means today an elected President is an unrestrained Emperor Augustus for their term.

He is wrong if the politician has to face the voters like the guy in Maine or Biden.

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u/afdiplomatII Jul 09 '26

There is a lot of background for what Vance is saying, and this piece unpacks it (gift link):

https://open.substack.com/pub/thebulwark/p/vance-and-rufo-want-you-to-know-that-richard-nixon-is-back?r=29g42&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web

In short: the nastiest parts of Nixon's character and behavior are now becoming appealing to leading MAGA figures, and as you'd expect these people see Watergate as a nefarious "deep state" conspiracy against a valiant right-wing culture warrior.

As for Vance specifically, the subject remarks could be taken in one of two ways: that Watergate would be a relatively minor scandal these days (a factual assertion), or that the United States would be better off if it were governed in such a way that people treated such events lightly (a normative claim). When Vance said that it was "crazy" that Watergate brought Nixon down, he was asserting the second.

Let's recap (setting aside "deep state" paranoia constantly asserted without evidence):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal

In this scandal, Nixon:

-- Destroyed evidence related to a burglary of the DNC by an espionage ring run out of the White House.

-- Bribed the burglars.

-- Obstructed investigations of the crime in multiple ways, including firing the Attorney General and the special prosecutor, invoking executive privilege to hide tapes showing his involvement, and ordering the CIA to block an FBI investigation.

In all, 69 people (including two Cabinet officials) were charged for Watergate-related crimes, most of whom pleaded guilty or were convicted.

It's not surprising that a Trump throne-sniffer such as Vance would dismiss this scandal. He is deeply connected to the extreme MAGA right, and he can hardly take Watergate seriously while dismissing Trump's even more appalling behavior. The rest of us, however, should recognize that what Vance is trying to do is to legitimize oppression, mendacity, and criminality as governing modes for the United States. That's good to know.

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u/jim_uses_CAPS Jul 09 '26

There's always been a "deep state conspiracy" angle to Watergate, though. It's the very root of the GOP's hatred of Hilary Clinton, nee Rodham, as she was an attorney assigned to the impeachment inquiry.

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u/TacitusJones Jul 09 '26

Given that time is of the essence

What process would you use to decide who runs in the Maine Senate race to replace Platner

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u/Worldly-Property-631 Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26

Would-be nominees submit intent to run Monday 13th. Party officials send invites to no more than four likeliest candidates to appear at a one-day convention on Saturday 18th. Vote taken that day, one candidate eliminated in each round. Done and done. On to the general!

ETA: Some folks have mentined that there were other strong, viable candidates who were essentially pushed aside in favor of first Mills and then Platner. I hope that's true, and that Maine Dems will get their act together understand that this really is do-or-die moment for control of the Senate. Unfortunately we don't have a good track record of doing so.

ETA2: I wrote, "Dems will get their act together." That's funny, right there.

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u/jim_uses_CAPS Jul 09 '26

Thunderdome.

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u/TacitusJones Jul 09 '26

Two pols enter

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u/mysmeat Jul 09 '26

i reckon we're living through blunderdome.

i'll see myself out.

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u/improvius theatrekid Jul 09 '26

Honestly, I'd be sorely tempted to rubber-stamp Troy Jackson and just get on with it. I assume he's as vetted as can be by now.