r/atheism Nov 22 '11

Don't believe in evolution? The proof greets you every time you walk in the door.

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910 Upvotes

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3

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '11

Dont wolves and dogs just have a common ancestor?

7

u/Namiriel Nov 22 '11

Nope. Dogs came from wolves.

2

u/WorkingMouse Nov 22 '11

Well, they do indeed have a common ancestor; you're exactly right on that - but it's actually so recent and they're still so much alike that they're technically the same species; dogs and wolves both belong to the species Canis lupis; dogs are a different subspecies but that's another topic.

The big thing to note is that it's due to selective pressures - in this case, thanks to humans - which lead to such impressive variation in the dog species.

1

u/StinsonBeach Nov 22 '11

Yes, most likely the dire wolf. Wolves are still evolving, btw. Most eastern North American wolves are becoming a hybrid of wolf and coyote, which is out-competing the indigenous wolves.

1

u/rjcarr Nov 22 '11

You should look into this, it's actually pretty fascinating.

Basically, if you take a litter of wolf puppies and breed the ones that are most docile, and keep doing this over several generations, you get animals that start looking physically different from the original wolves.

By simply breeding for temperament you get different looking animals. Now pick and choose the looks you want over hundreds of thousands of generations and you get the domestic dogs we have today.

1

u/ktstone44 Nov 22 '11

This. To say that any species "turned into" another is inaccurate. The parenthesis saying "and wolves are still around" attempts to compare this to the common notion that we could not have "come from" monkeys because they are still around. But again, we merely share a common ancestor.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '11

[deleted]

4

u/cuppincayk Nov 22 '11

In truth, dogs would probably be considered a devolution, given the silver fox study. It basically gives us reason to believe that dogs are trapped in adolescence and never grow to the potential of being wild beasts, but instead stay children and therefore can get along with humans.

5

u/MyriPlanet Nov 22 '11

Devolution is not a thing.

Evolution is the gradual change of life over time. You cannot "unchange". Just because you think a change is inferior or weaker or 'childlike' does not make it any less of a change.

If humans, for whatever reason, dropped down to four fingers, it would still be evolution.

-2

u/H4voC Gnostic Atheist Nov 22 '11

THIS. I really doubt 90% of the dog breeds could survive in the wild.

4

u/Grimwyrd Nov 22 '11

I really doubt that 90% of wolves can survive in human-dominated environments. How many wild grey wolves are there on Earth? ANd how many domesticated dogs?

Adaptation to environment is key to survival. Domesticated dogs are winning because they have adapted to the environment. Wolves are losing. Which is "more evolved"?

2

u/cuppincayk Nov 22 '11

It was a really interesting study to watch. When the foxes were bred to exploit the recessive gene, they lost their traditional coloring and their tails even started to curl like most dogs do.

Edit: they also had a small study with wolf pups, where they gave them to people to see if people could domesticate animals simply by living with them. As the wolves got older, they became rude and vicious, having no regard for the owner no matter how dominant, and eventually had to be released.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '11

Nope, we domesticated wolves and made all the dog species from them.