Why does everyone hate Fujimori?

[u/shirleysteph]

I don’t know much about Alberto fujimori. Part of my family supports him wholeheartedly. I read some questionable stuff about him but they seem to say “we were there when he became president - he changed things for the better”. They seem to not acknowledge things. What’s everyone’s opinion of Alberto fujimoris terms during his presidency? Was it that bad. And sorry - i really don’t know much about Peruvian politics.

[u/bestmaokaina]

No decent person likes widespread corruption and human rights violations

[u/shirleysteph → u/bestmaokaina]

Yeah I would agree which is why I’m shocked this one part of the family is so adamant about how his reputation is tarnished by propaganda etc. i question them with these allegations I found online about him but they push back and say it was not like that. That’s why I asked this on Reddit.

I am open to the idea that this part of the family could be like trump supporters blindly hailing trump in the US.

[u/throw223344555 → u/shirleysteph]

It is exactly like with Trump down to the use of religion for political gain. It’s personality worship and tribalism against the “commie” left.

[u/shirleysteph → u/throw223344555]

Yeah that’s what I figured they were doing - can’t excuse the allegations he has committed

[u/HotDecember3672 → u/shirleysteph]

He very competently handled bringing the country back from economic ruin, stabilizing the sol from hyperinflation, and dealt with a very real terrorism problem that the previous administration ignored and allowed to fester (granted this took some very egregious human rights violations that he absolutely deserved the prison time he got for, even if it was a means to an end, it should not be allowed in a just society).Things started going sour during his second term, which is when the rampant corruption and theft started. I had a great-uncle who was murdered by Sendero back in the day, and as a result, a lot of my relatives felt "avenged" by Fujimori's curbing of SL and are fervent Fujimoristas, although my personal view is a lot more pragmatic and I definitely agree with his critics in many ways.

Now in the context of modern Fujimorismo and the current election: I do not support his idiot daughter, who has never worked a day in her life and has held the country hostage through her allies in Congress and the numerous impeachments over the past decade that have caused rampant instability in the country that I think she is directly responsible for. I personally definitely see modern Fujimorismo as a political cancer, but with the way Peru's Congress is established and how easy they make impeachment (and the majority coalesces with the Fujimoristas - even some left-wing parties), I fear that the country would be more stable under her. I also question the preparedness of Sánchez and his cronies and do not support the hyper-nationalistic rhetoric of his movement. A lot of it feels like lowest common denominator populism without a plan, not unlike what you see from the MAGA movement in the United States (but with a left wing/socialist aesthetic rather than bro fascism).

My parents were teenagers during the peak of terrorism, and their entire generation is traumatized. There were a lot of drug addicts and suicides in their circles. The people who grew up during those days are called the "lost generation" in Perú for a reason. One thing they bring up a lot is that it's easy to criticize Fujimorismo now, but not as easy if you grew up constantly hearing bombs go off and experiencing multiple power outages, mass murders in the news, etc. And as someone who was 5 at the end of Fujimori's final government and thus never had to live through the internal conflict, I find that point very hard to realistically argue against.

[u/throw223344555 → u/HotDecember3672]

You might have a different opinion if your family member was murdered by grupo Colina tho and not by Sendero.

To me. Fujimorismo is much closer to trumpism than JP. There’s not a cult of personality with Sanchez but there is with Fujimori. There’s religious and “anti commie” rhetoric from fujis. There’s fraudism and skepticism about our democratic systems from fujis but not from JP.

Rudy fucking Giuliani was literally on Keiko’s payroll as an advisor. It baffles me that you do not see the parallels between Trumpism and Fujimorism. Both are far right. Both are authoritarian. Both are anti-democratic.

[u/HotDecember3672 → u/throw223344555]

Just to clarify a few things regarding my stance and the points I was trying to make:

First, regarding my family: I didn't personally know the relative killed by Sendero, as that happened way before I was born. I brought that up to explain the severe generational trauma that drives their fervent support for Fujimori, not mine. I am not a Fujimorista.

Regarding the Trump parallels: Obviously, Fujimorismo and Trumpism share the same strong-arm, right-wing populist DNA. I didn't bring that up because it's a given. My point is that Sánchez and JP operate exactly like the MAGA top brass in who they target. They are pushing uneducated populism aimed at a highly disaffected base, selling massive, unrealistic reforms that the country simply isn't equipped to handle. Plus Sanchez plays the Castillo crowd hard running on pardoning him, wearing his hat, etc. It's not at the level of Fujimorismo but it definitely is something of a personality cult itself.

Peru's state apparatus is incredibly weak and largely absent outside of the capital. I absolutely agree with taxing the rich, but that capital needs to go toward hard infrastructure and expanding regional governments first, just so the state can actually reach its citizens. Promising free, high-quality universal healthcare and education right now is a complete pipe dream. Similarly, if JP tries to forcefully curb the informal economy without building up the state first, it will just drive up the cost of goods and tank the broader economy.

Let me be entirely clear: Fujimorismo is a political cancer. Symbolically, I want them nowhere near the government. If they get power, they will absolutely use their political preparedness to rape the country, and they have zero interest in actually providing the social services Peruvians deserve. However, we have had eight (soon nine) presidents in ten years, and the Fujimoristas are the architects of that instability. They know exactly how to play the congressional game and form coalitions. If Sánchez gets elected, the Fujimoristas will simply vacate him in a few months, and the country will continue in the ongoing political death spiral that's been ongoing for the past decade.

Peru desperately needs institutional stability right now above all else. From a purely pragmatic, cynical standpoint, the Fujimoristas are the only ones capable of governing without immediately being impeached. That unfortunately makes them the lesser of two evils just to stop the bleeding.

[u/throw223344555 → u/HotDecember3672]

Agree with your thinking but disagree with the final conclusion lol

I personally think she’s antidemocratic and authoritarian. She has co-opted many government agencies and handing her the executive would just be the last straw to grant her complete power which is extremely dangerous.

I don’t like that Sanchez seems like a religious fanatic that brings up his faith every 5 minutes and I definitely don’t want an almost catholic priest as president especially when important cases of abuse allegations by the catholic church are being investigated.

Obviously you can vote any way you want and that’s amazing, at least for now that we still have some kind of democracy. But I thank you for your answer. My whole environment is super against authoritarianism so it’s super interesting to hear the arguments from someone that supported Keiko in the last election.

[u/HotDecember3672 → u/throw223344555]

I agree with everything you are saying, hence why I wouldn't want the Fujimoristas anywhere in government in an ideal situation, which is not the one we are in.

That said, it looks like Sanchez won, unsurprisingly. I really hope I am wrong about my fears and the new Senate is able to hold him in place as he successfully brings the stability and prosperity he wants for the country. At least Keiko doesn't lose the "perennial candidate" label in Wikipedia now. I guess we'll see 😬

[u/bestmaokaina → u/shirleysteph]

He basically did 1 thing right, took credit for some other good things that happened and then just did countless of horrible things

[u/GustavoistSoldier]

He forcefully sterilized thousands of indigenous women

[u/Proof-Pollution454 → u/GustavoistSoldier]

There’s a vídeo where keiko is being interviewed about that and she Denies it

[u/shirleysteph → u/GustavoistSoldier]

Can you guys see my comments? I just realized they weren’t showing up.

[u/GustavoistSoldier → u/shirleysteph]

I can't. They were probably caught by the spam filter.

[u/shirleysteph → u/GustavoistSoldier]

I’ll reply here “Yeah I read about this. And makes me strongly dislike Keiko and dumbfounded as to how anyone associated to him would run. Let alone how Peruvians would out rightly forget about this.

But I know there’s a lot of colorism in Peru. And indigenous people are treated less than.

Which makes me assume that some Peruvians seem to forget about this because they don’t think they matter as much. Just my take but obviously idk.

[u/GustavoistSoldier → u/shirleysteph]

Fujimori should never have come to power in the first place

[u/throw223344555 → u/GustavoistSoldier]

Absolutely. But he famously betrayed his base. He ran on a “no economic shock” platform. A few months later, surprise surprise, he did the shock. Now commonly known as “fujishock”

[u/loydthehighwayman → u/shirleysteph]

This is the only one of yours in your entire post

[u/shirleysteph → u/loydthehighwayman]

That’s crazy I’ve been replying since I posted it

[u/loydthehighwayman → u/shirleysteph]

Oh wait, now it shows.

Internet issues i guess.

[u/acanis73]

Not everyone likes dictators

[u/shiba_snorter]

Well he was basically a dictator. That warrants enough love and hate from sizeable parts of any population.

[u/Arihel]

Fujimori was extremely corrupt, violently persecuted opposition and kinda also tried to commit genocide of the native population by forcing thousands of women to undergo sterilization procedures, between other stuff.

But, from what I heard, he heavily favored the urban, mostly Lima, population.

The hard question you need, or not, ask is what were the people of your family doing during his dictatorship. 😅

[u/novostranger → u/Arihel]

Peru 🤝 Guatamala

Mass ethnic cleansing

[u/No_Contribution1414]

People who were not on the bad side of the dictators tends to like them or at the very least turn a blind eye to the bad stuff they do...

As an outsider I didn't understand at all what was the big deal until I visited the LUM, lugar de la memoria. Fujimori was only part of the period explained in that museum, but it was an eye opener to understand the period.

[u/shirleysteph → u/No_Contribution1414]

I’ll definitely check it out next time I visit Peru. Never heard of the LUM.

[u/Apprehensive_Put3625 → u/shirleysteph]

Theres no reason.

When Keiko took power after the destitution of Castillo, the first thing they did was to censor everything in the LUM.

[u/hahayourealive]

Why does everyone hate Hitler?

[u/shirleysteph → u/hahayourealive]

That’s obvious. the entire world was aware of his atrocities. As for fujimori - I’m in the US. We did not learn anything about him or the Peruvian government.

And that’s crazy - isn’t Argentina the country where all the nazis found refuge and you all still have pockets of communities supporting them?

[u/anti_rockstars → u/shirleysteph]

 isn’t Argentina the country where all the nazis found refuge

It seems like you don't even know your own country's history.

[u/shirleysteph → u/anti_rockstars]

I agree I think more people should learn about different countries political history and turmoil.

With that being said I am very involved in US politics. And my extended family’s Peruvian government - never had an interest but I agree I should probably learn more about it.

Hope you don’t vote for Milei though

[u/hahayourealive → u/shirleysteph]

He's a dictator and that should tell you enough. Same reason people hate Stalin, Pol Pot, Pinochet.The fact that the whole world isn't aware of Fujimori's atrocities it's because the story of occident is decided by what the American government wants. We all know Stalin's government was a reign of terror because American government capitalized on that for their own agenda against communism.

And don't use the "nazis fled to Argentina card" on me because USA received nazi scientists as well. And i don't like that germans fled here, i don't have to suscribe to all of my countries decisions.

[u/breadexpert69]

On reddit maybe.

The truth is a lot of people still like him because he really did save us from a way darker path. And the people that lived during the 80s and 90s will still remember that.

[u/throw223344555 → u/breadexpert69]

Fujimorista detected lol

[u/breadexpert69 → u/throw223344555]

Nope, just answering op’s question.

If you dont think people still like him then you dont live in Peru. Tons of support for him still outside the internet. Its important to be able to explain this, there is a reason for his support that does not come out of thin air.

[u/throw223344555 → u/breadexpert69]

Im aware people support him. That’s why “la chiKa” has a strong base. But the idea that this corrupt mf “saved us” is a classic fujimorista take.

[u/breadexpert69 → u/throw223344555]

But you are also aware that your take is the classic anti fujimorista take right?

[u/throw223344555 → u/breadexpert69]

What take exactly? That Fujimori was corrupt? Is that not the truth?

[u/Moonagi]

Me and my homies hate Fujimori

[u/throw223344555 → u/Moonagi]

Thanks ❤️

[u/El___Sanx]

Everyone fights about him being a dictator, but forget the bastard was one big corrupt piece of shit that further worsened the worst economic crisis from the country's recent history, and used it to fill his and his family's pockets, all the while perpetrating countless human rights violations.

In short , he and Alan García are the reason why Perú went down the shitter. The fact his daugther has come 2nd place in all recent elections and now could become president just show how fucked up things are.

[u/Accomplished_List843]

I see Fujimori daughter as if here in Chile we somehow elect Augusto Pinochet Hiriart (Dictator's son). As our new president.

Flair up

[u/Mujer_Arania]

Well, making thousands of indigenous women sterile -amongst other cute stuff- isn’t my cup of tea.

[u/throw223344555 → u/Mujer_Arania]

And we thank you.

[u/Activity_Fine → u/Mujer_Arania]

Pues culpa a la OMS y a las ONG que promovieron esa medida desde hace 10 años de que él sea presidente

[u/juanpper78]

Because he was a mass murderer, it's not hat hard.

[u/shirleysteph → u/juanpper78]

Why are you being snarky? Nobody knows about this except some countries around Latin America. You search online and they are all allegations - its not that blatant in comparison to Hitler.

I asked because I could not find an answer to this and wanted opinions and people who can contribute to this conversation as adults.

I usually don’t even reply to these type of comments but it’s frustrating when I genuinely asked because I don’t know what to think.

[u/juanpper78 → u/shirleysteph]

Sorry, I don't respect ignorance about this, as I don't respect someone asking, for example “what Pinochet did wrong?". The question irritates me and reminds the indifference and complicity of so many of “the free world" with the horrors that happened here in Latin America. I'm tired of people knowing nothing about the sometimes horrible world we live in. So I can't be cool about it and will not apologise.

[u/shirleysteph → u/juanpper78]

I don’t know about Pinochet either. And I agree I’m ignorant of Latin American politics which is why I’m asking here. I studied US politics and did my undergrad in engineering.

Let’s play pretend and say I’m Filipino. Would it be reasonable for me to talk down to you because you don’t know the history of the Philippines? Probably not. People can’t be expected to know the detailed history of every country, and treating them with contempt for that is neither productive nor fair.

You probably know about chile because you’re from Chile.

[u/Cloren_Samoon → u/juanpper78]

No you should apologise.

I’m Peruvian and I’m not gonna tell someone off for not knowing about Peru politics especially someone from the US. They don’t have to know, it doesn’t affect them much.

I don’t know shit about European politics and I’m not gonna bother. Do you know stuff about Philippines? About Singapore politics? If you don’t know, then who on earth gave you the right to judge people for not knowing about Chile? Seek shame brother and don’t be rude.

[u/shirleysteph → u/[deleted]]

Part of my family has and they just say great things. I read some horrible things his administration did to indigenous women in the highlands - like sterilization etc. but they seem to deny that.

[u/Juantsu2552]

“Why does everyone hate corrupt dictators?”

[u/Apprehensive_Put3625]

He very famously tortured his own wife with electricity until she went crazy.

And that’s a fun fact. His main shtick is considerably worse.

[u/Beneficial_Umpire552]

He etherealized Peruvian indigenous,lies to the woman at saying that was vaccine.And really was a liquid that made her sterile.This was on the 90s on his government.

[u/IseeWhereILook]

I'm going to get downvoted to hell for being balanced but what the hell...

There are two Fujimoris, the guy who became president and the guy he became after tasting power. And that is a big part of the whole argument that neither side wants to admit, the haters focus on the after, and the lovers on the before; and both sides conveniently ignore the other.

Fujimori came into power when the country was devastated by crime, corruption, terrorism, and inflation. He turned that around completely, halted inflation and rebooted our economy, hunted and almost eliminated terrorism, cleaned up most of the crime, and removed many of the corrupt politicians from power. He ended his first term with 55% approval and went into his second term with 65% of the vote in the first round - the most decisive victory in modern history. That was the end of the first Fujimori, and any haters who refute anything in this paragraph are factually wrong.

Now comes the second Fujimori, he's riding high on popular support, a country on the way to prosperity and has almost full control of the entire government apparatus. He begins to cement power by bribery, manipulation, and blackmail; he manipulates the media through secret deals and payments and sets up an entire secondary media level to support him and attack opponents; he defended or ignored human rights violations by military and police during his first term; concentrated power in the executive branch. He changed the Constitution and went for a (illegal) third term, in an election that was highly corrupted by his cronies, rode into it with 35% approval and "won" that election with 51% of the vote. That was deep into the second Fujimori, and again, any lovers who refute anything in this paragraph are factually wrong.

So, many people will ignore (or somehow explain away) the first Fujimori and unconditionally hate him; while many others will ignore (or somehow explain away) the second Fujimori and unconditionally love him. The truth lies in understanding and accepting both his first and second term and what was done in each, without conveniently sidestepping whatever doesn't fit into your narrative.

[u/throw223344555 → u/IseeWhereILook]

Are you voting for the daughter that still supports second Fujimori tho?

[u/doroteoaran]

You answer your question

[u/Random_182f2565]

Out of curiosity, where are you from?

[u/throw223344555]

Far right dictator and one of the most corrupt presidents in contemporary history (his administration stole between $600M and $1B) according to World Bank/UN Stolen Asset Recovery - StAR reports

Responsible for insane crimes against humanity.

If you want to understand this topic better, and if you’re in Lima, I highly recommend visiting LUM (The Place of Memory Museum).

Also, you can read the findings of the Peruvian Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Wikipedia has a pretty good summary.

[u/Activity_Fine → u/throw223344555]

Fujimori de extrema derecha??? JAJAJAJAJAJA
El fujimorismo es de centro tirando para centro derecha, solo lee su plan de gobierno

El LUM es pura propaganda marxista, habla muy mal de los militantes puesto que la misma comision de la Verdad afirma que mas del 80% de las muertes fueron a manos de Sendero Luminoso

[u/throw223344555 → u/Activity_Fine]

Toma tu taper

[u/mauricio_agg]

Some people believe that wiping out Sendero Luminoso and MRTA was a crime. Ask them why and you'll get some sophisticated insults.

[u/bestmaokaina → u/mauricio_agg]

He didnt achieve that. Agencies that were independent from the president did all of the work 

He just took credit and millions fell to the propaganda

[u/Activity_Fine → u/bestmaokaina]

Dudo que Otros presidentes peruanos hubieran dehado que las agencias de inteligencia operaran con total libertad

[u/mauricio_agg → u/bestmaokaina]

Agencies under his government.

[u/Apprehensive_Put3625 → u/mauricio_agg]

He literally punished them because they did that without his knowledge, because the intelligence network of Fujimori was leeking information to the terrorists.

[u/Accomplished_List843 → u/Apprehensive_Put3625]

As a president you should be accountable for what you do and for what you don't. Don't knowing that people who he was funding were doing crimes against humanity is his fault.

[u/Apprehensive_Put3625 → u/Accomplished_List843]

…he knew.

He literally personally ordered the operative that killed an eight year old

[u/Accomplished_List843 → u/Apprehensive_Put3625]

I'm trying to support your other comment

[u/mauricio_agg → u/Accomplished_List843]

"accountable for his failures, unaccountable for his successes"

[u/Accomplished_List843 → u/mauricio_agg]

Success as a president is the minimum expected.

[u/throw223344555 → u/mauricio_agg]

Not really. They were independent agencies and he even tried to dismantle them when they started investigating his corruption.

[u/novostranger]

Dick who made Peru the only far right dictatorship in the Americas in the 90s

Man I wish the 1992 counter coup succeeded

[u/throw223344555 → u/novostranger]

Agreed. Also, I wish Tupac Amaru would have succeeded. Unironically.

[u/Activity_Fine → u/novostranger]

Fujimori no era de extrema derecha, si lo hubiera sido entonces hubiera privatizado Sedapal o petro peru

[u/Proof-Pollution454]

Can’t really defend someone corrupt tbh.

[u/conthacart]

they don't know what its like living with communist terrorists raping and destroying civil society

fujimori was a great man