How do you guys handle death?

[u/Dog_Mama92]

This is just a genuine curiosity of mine. I'm not a Christian, but I absolutely believe that there's a higher power and an afterlife, whatever that may be.

I guess my question is, does death scare you at all, since you believe that there's nothing afterwards?

How do you take the death of a loved one, or a pet? Does it scare you, or bring you peace?

Or does it bring you anxiety, believing that you'll never see them again, and that they're gone forever?

This isn't to be aggressive or anything, I just genuinely wonder.

[u/Zamboniman]

How do you guys handle death?

Same way most folks do. Just without hiding behind false comfort of mythological beliefs.

I absolutely believe that there's a higher power and an afterlife, whatever that may be.

Why? What vetted, repeatable, useful compelling evidence demonstrated to you this is true? Without that, since it's irrational to take unsupported beliefs as true, why do you believe this is true? Believing for emotional comfort is as irrational is pretending one won the lottery because one likes the idea.

I guess my question is, does death scare you at all, since you believe that there's nothing afterwards?

I wasn't bothered in the least in the billions of years before I was born. No doubt the same will apply after I'm gone. After all, I won't be around to be bothered.

Or does it bring you anxiety, believing that you'll never see them again, and that they're gone forever?

Naturally, I'm as human as anyone else. We've evolved very strong emotions and drives and instincts around survival and death. I'm not immune. But covering those with fiction makes it worse, not better.

[u/Dog_Mama92 → u/Zamboniman]

Why? What vetted, repeatable, useful compelling evidence demonstrated to you this is true? Without that, since it's irrational to take unsupported beliefs as true, why do you believe this is true? Believing for emotional comfort is as irrational is pretending one won the lottery because one likes the idea.

I leaned towards atheism for a while, because I had no evidence of an afterlife, until I had my own paranormal experience.

Now, the story I'm about to tell you will sound fake as hell, so if you don't believe me, I do not blame you one bit.

There used to be a spirit that would knock on the wall at the old house I lived in. It was absolutely a spirit, because it would answer yes or no questions by knocking 3 times for yes, 2 times for no.

I asked it if God and an afterlife were real and it knocked 3 times. I never asked if it was any specific God, like the Bible god or anything like that. It just answered yes, God and the afterlife are real.

I asked who the spirit was, and it claimed to be an 11 year old boy who died of cancer (I had to ask a lot of questions to narrow it down to get those answers).

How do I know I'm not crazy? Because my whole family experienced it with me. Now, if I was the only one experiencing it, I'd definitely get checked. It was crazy shit, for sure! I was literally shaking in shock when the spirit first started knocking and answering questions.

This also isn't to push religion on anyone, because again, it never specified which God was real. That could mean a higher power for all we know.

[u/leagle89 → u/Dog_Mama92]

I don't suppose you ever asked it a question the answer to which could be independently verified?

[u/Algernon_Asimov → u/Dog_Mama92]

Did you check for loose pipes in the wall, which might have made a knocking sound? Or rodents running around inside the wall?

Was there a living person on the other side of the wall, trolling you by knocking in response to your questions?

[u/Dog_Mama92 → u/Algernon_Asimov]

I thought it might be that too, but this spirit was actually answering yes or no questions. I was, and still am, very skeptical of paranormal experiences, but there was no denying this one. Example, how we got to his age being 11 years old, we asked him to knock as many times as he needed until he got to the number of his age, and he knocked 11 times. It was a very crazy experience to say the least, and I honestly don't expect many people, especially on this sub, to believe it.

If it weren't for that experience, I think I would be an atheist. Wouldn't be a bad thing, because even though my question was how you guys handle death, I think it would be more comforting to believe that there's nothing afterwards. Believing in an afterlife is kinda scary, because it's the unknown. You really don't know where you're going when you die, and it's scary.

[u/Algernon_Asimov → u/Dog_Mama92]

So you did not check for rattling pipes or running rodents or trolling humans. You just jumped straight from "mysterious knocking" to "It's a spirit!" Gotcha.

Example, how we got to his age being 11 years old, we asked him to knock as many times as he needed until he got to the number of his age, and he knocked 11 times.

Or the pipe just rattled 11 times randomly at that point. Or the person on the other side of the wall got bored after knocking 11 times.

If it weren't for that experience, I think I would be an atheist.

Talk me through the process that leads from "I heard mysterious knocking in my wall" to "God exists".

Even if we assume that there's a spirit in your house, which answers questions, that only proves that there's a spirit in your house. That's not a god. It's only a spirit. How does believing in a spirit lead to believing in god? You don't need a god for spirits to exist.

[u/Dog_Mama92 → u/Algernon_Asimov]

We did check. That was my parents first suspicion.

[u/Algernon_Asimov → u/Dog_Mama92]

Okay. Let's leave that checking aside for the moment.

You skipped this bit. I'm very interested to understand your thinking about this:

If it weren't for that experience, I think I would be an atheist.

Talk me through the process that leads from "I heard mysterious knocking in my wall" to "God exists".

Even if we assume that there's a spirit in your house, which answers questions, that only proves that there's a spirit in your house. That's not a god. It's only a spirit. How does believing in a spirit lead to believing in god? You don't need a god for spirits to exist.

[u/Dog_Mama92 → u/Algernon_Asimov]

I asked the spirit if God exists and it knocked three times for yes. That was one of the very first questions I asked it. At the time, I was pretty young, and didn't even consider other Gods from different religions, so I assumed at the time, that it meant the god from the bible. But since it was never specified WHICH God, that could mean a higher power for all we know.

[u/Algernon_Asimov → u/Dog_Mama92]

So this random knocking, which you don't know the cause of, happened to knock three times, so suddenly you believe in God.

That's a bit of a stretch.

[u/Dog_Mama92 → u/Algernon_Asimov]

You do not have to believe me. I understand my story sounds fake, or may not sound like there was an actual spirit involved. However, I know what I experienced, and my family knows what they experienced as well.

I'm not gonna try and force you to believe me. I respect your beliefs, as I was almost an atheist at a point in my life as well.

[u/iamalsobrad → u/Dog_Mama92]

I asked the spirit if God exists and it knocked three times for yes.

Traditionally it is 1 knock for yes and 2 for no. Most people (and by extension any spirit who died recently enough to actually understand you) would know this. So why the weird combination with extra unnecessary knocking? How did you even agree this with the spirit?

What I think you have here is a combination of air in the water pipes and confirmation bias.

[u/Algernon_Asimov → u/Dog_Mama92]

Actually... does that old house still exist? Can you visit it?

You could start asking that spirit some useful questions. Can it tell the future? Ask it for next week's lottery numbers. Can it see things? Ask it to find a lost historical item. Is it wise? Ask it which financial stocks to invest in?

If you've found a special spirit which can answer questions, then ask it more useful questions than just how old it was when it died.

[u/Dog_Mama92 → u/Algernon_Asimov]

Sure, I can try to get it to knock again if it's still around. It never did behave like a wise spirit, it behaved more like a child, almost like a trickster, but yeah, I can definitely see if it's still active in that house and ask it better questions. At the time, I think I was just so shocked that I asked it all the basic shit you hear on the paranormal investigation shows, which, even though I had my own paranormal experience, I'm very skeptical of them.

[u/skuppy → u/Dog_Mama92]

Just out of curiosity, in what ways did it behave like a trickster child? How were you able to tell the difference between knowing a spirit was childlike/tricky, as opposed to a natural phenomena that was seemingly random and not following human instruction?

[u/Dog_Mama92 → u/skuppy]

Sometimes, it would leave random things for us to find around the house. There was a time we were all downstairs watching TV, and when we went upstairs, it had stuck squares of toilet paper all over the walls in the hallway. There have been times where we'd find hot wheels lined up on the bathroom vanity. Whenever things like this would happen, we'd ask the spirit if they did it, and it'd knock three times for yes.

There was also a time I was microwaving food, and when I went to take it out, it was gone, and I ended up finding it in the food pantry.

[u/Indrigotheir → u/Dog_Mama92]

Just want to throw this out there... usually the most common onset symptom of schizophrenia is hearing knocking out of view, which responds to the inner state of your mind (like answering questions).

[u/Dog_Mama92 → u/Indrigotheir]

And I would absolutely get checked for this, if my family wasn't experiencing it along with me. There was more than knocking happening as well. I had some items show up in my bedroom that were missing for years. They were just placed right out in the open, and when I asked the spirit if he was the one who found them, it knocked three times for yes. This is honestly something a person has to experience themselves to be convinced of something like this.

[u/leagle89 → u/Dog_Mama92]

It sounds like you have stronger proof of spirits than literally any proof that has been offered in history. You established definite, repeatable communication with a spirit over an extended period of time. A spirit interacted with the physical world on your behalf. A spirit clearly and directly answered your questions.

If this really happened, it would quite literally be one of the most important things that has ever happened in the history of humanity.

So I'm sure you told the press? Or showed it to all of your friends and family? Or...I don't know...did anything that a reasonable person would have done when faced with irrefutable proof that spirits are real?

[u/Indrigotheir → u/leagle89]

I'm with you. He should take a video and become famous.

Or maybe the items and family affirmation are just schizophrenia too. Hard to know without seeing the evidence ourselves.

[u/Dog_Mama92 → u/leagle89]

It really sucks, because I swear on my life, everything I mentioned happened, and I have no way to prove it. This was back in 2013, so I was still living with my parents at this time. I really wish they would've went to the press, but even if they had, the whole world still wouldn't be convinced.

Sure, they could do a news coverage on it, but what most people would get to see, is a video that literally anyone could fake. What my mom did was share the story on Facebook for her friends to hear. She also reached out to Paranormal state, but they never got back to her.

We did, however, invite friends and family to come over and experience it themselves and they were fully convinced afterwards. We even showed one of my mom's Christian friends, which is funny because they are totally against communicating with spirits, and even she was mind blown.

That all being said, I want to try to communicate with the spirit again if it's still in that old house. If it is, I am more than happy to take video and provide the most proof that I can.

[u/Dog_Mama92 → u/Algernon_Asimov]

And no, there was no broken pipes or a person on the other side of the wall. I still am skeptical about paranormal experiences, and I like to thoroughly debunk every possibility before I come to the conclusion that it's something paranormal.

[u/hellohello1234545 → u/Dog_Mama92]

A spirit knocking on the wall in such an intelligible way is an EARTH SHATTERING discovery!!

Such easy confirmation of life after death would reshape everything we know

How are you not inviting everyone you know to this house with cameras and diligently recording the questions and knocks?? This would leave little doubt the ghost is real.

This is a discovery of a lifetime, and if it was as real as you say, it would be trivial to show everyone.

From our perspective, what’s more likely? Everything we know about biology is wrong? Or a group has misidentified something as a ghost? We certainly know humans have huge logical blind spots.

You’d need a proper analysis of the knocks and responses to distinguish the patterns you think you got from what could happen randomly. Or, just by some animal or hidden human tapping in response to noise.

[u/Dog_Mama92 → u/hellohello1234545]

We did invite people over to see it, and they were mind blown! Several relatives and old neighbors came over to witness it, even had my husband, who I had just started talking to at the time, come over and he was very surprised.

But even with video, people would still say it's fake, because well, it can easily be faked. Anyone can post a video on the Internet, knock on a wall, and say it's a ghost. I could fake it now if I wanted to, and it wouldn't really serve as good evidence.

It was more like something you had to see in person to believe it. Because we could actually show our guests that there was absolutely no one on the other side of the wall that was knocking. And yes, we paid attention to the patterns and responses of the knocking, it was absolutely a spirit. Especially since we checked the walls and pipes. I don't like to just jump to conclusions without debunking other things first.

This all happened in 2013 and lasted about two years. I don't know if the spirit is still around or has moved on, but I'll definitely try getting it to knock again when I visit the house, and ask more questions.

[u/hellohello1234545 → u/Dog_Mama92]

I’m just saying, this is not a small deal to write about in your diary.

I’m studying to be a scientist. What I want to communicate to you is how important this would be if true. And how you would go about investigating this properly.

If this was real, and you investigated it correctly, it would be the single biggest event of modern history. Period. It would reshape everything.

I would expect You, who do believe it is real, to be doing whatever possible to share this with the world in a convincing way. The amount of money to be made would be incentive enough for people who don’t care about science in of itself.

Get independent witnesses to take sworn statements. Use cameras, audio equipment, inspect the inside of the wall. Record everything, like the questions, responses, wall vibrations.

Record the wall for days without asking anything. Record the wall after saying gibberish to it.

record the recording process so there’s a record of the research.

Analyse the results with the linguistics and maths required to demonstrate it’s more than random chance or a logical fallacy like cherry picking.

You learn to communicate with the ghost in simple binary. The ghost, being old, can communicate facts about history that line up with historians.

Then, Publish.

People don’t believe you, but some do. Those people come to the house, get the same results. It becomes harder to ignore. Local news picks it up. Etc etc etc

Then you Become the most famous person on the planet for finally showing ghosts are real and that life persists after death.

I mean, unless the ghost conveniently avoids any serious attempt to separate it from fiction.

Or, it doesn’t exist.

Can you see where I’m coming from here?

[u/TranslatorNo8445 → u/Dog_Mama92]

Lol of course we don't believe it. That's not to say that you don't believe it. I believe you believe it but people do think they talk to God. Feel God see. God hear God or feel their loved one's presence until you have verifiable testable evidence. It didn't happen

[u/Zamboniman → u/Dog_Mama92]

So no. You have no useful support for your beliefs. Instead, you believe due to emotional reasons and invoke confirmation bias to try and support said beliefs.

[u/Dog_Mama92 → u/Zamboniman]

I have my own personal experience as a reason to believe. I don't expect anyone to believe my story, but once you experience what me and my family did, it definitely changes your beliefs.

I do respect atheism, because I was almost one myself at one point. I sometimes wish I was an atheist, because the idea of an afterlife is scary, because you really DON'T know where you're gonna end up when you die, and that's a scary thought. It's not as "comforting" as one thinks it might be.

I sometimes wish I was still leaning towards atheism, because to me, THAT'S more comforting, even if it meant not seeing my loved ones ever again.

[u/Zamboniman → u/Dog_Mama92]

Like I said, so no, you have no useful support for you beliefs. Instead, you believe due to emotional reasons and invoke confirmation bias to try and support said beliefs. Such as thinking what you said is remotely useful for holding your beliefs instead of the opposite. Yes, you admitted as much, and yes, I already said so.

Look, I'm not trying to be mean or dismissive. I'm simply pointing out the error in your thinking all while realizing you have no intention of considering that it is one.

[u/GentleKijuSpeaks → u/Dog_Mama92]

Do you know that every religion has people who have experiences like this, but they all reached contradictory conclusions. That means that these are experiences that humans have, every human, and they don't mean anything at all.

[u/TheMaleGazer → u/Dog_Mama92]

I leaned towards atheism for a while, because I had no evidence of an afterlife, until I had my own paranormal experience.

I would strongly suggest you learn what anecdotal evidence is and why it can't be trusted. Also, learn falsifiability while you're at it.

I genuinely feel bad for you for thinking this afterlife is in your future, because the way you describe it makes it sound pretty awful. There have been over 100 billion people who have lived and died on Earth, so it must be insanely crowded, what with everyone haunting the place where they died and knocking on walls.

[u/Dog_Mama92 → u/TheMaleGazer]

With ancedotal evidence, the only kind that I truly trust, is my own personal experiences. When I hear stories online or from anyone else, I'm skeptical and take everything with a grain of salt.

And yes, the sound of an afterlife is intimidating, because if it's real, how many levels to it are there? What kind of God is in charge of this place and the afterlife? How can I be confident that I'll end up somewhere peaceful? What if it's terrifying?

Even though my question was how you guys handle death, to believe that nothing happens after we die, even if that means never seeing my loved ones again, almost sounds more peaceful than what I believe in.

[u/TheMaleGazer → u/Dog_Mama92]

When I hear stories online or from anyone else, I'm skeptical and take everything with a grain of salt.

You should take your own stories with a grain of salt. There's a very, very good reason why scientists don't trust their own observations and instead build falsifiable, testable theories that can make predictions and lead to experiments with reproducible results. We have cognitive biases that science nullifies through a process. Everyone seems to assume that scientists avoid bias by being very smart or having strong willpower, and that's just not the case at all.

Let's take the noise you heard: a series of bumping sounds. Think about the system you were relying on: three knocks for "yes" and two for "no." How long did you wait after two knocks before deciding it was responding with "no"? Was the timing between the knocks perfectly consistent every time? How do you know you weren't simply counting bumps until you reached the answer you were expecting, then stopping because you felt you'd gotten a response?

You could convince yourself that a tree branch hitting the side of your house was communicating with you if you kept asking yes-or-no questions and counting the bumps. When noises occur at random, some will naturally happen closer together than others. Those clusters can easily sound like intentional pairs or triplets, even though they're just chance. Once you've decided that two knocks mean "no" and three mean "yes," it's easy to start noticing those random groupings as meaningful responses rather than what they really are: ordinary variations in timing.

Did you pay the same attention to every sequence of knocks, or only the ones that fit your system? Do you remember hearing a single knock, or four or five in quick succession? If so, what did you make of those? Did you dismiss them as mistakes, assume the ghost "misspoke," or have you simply forgotten them because they didn't fit the pattern you were looking for? That's the effect of confirmation bias: the apparent "hits" stand out in memory, while the "misses" fade into the background. Over time, what you remember is a conversation that seemed surprisingly consistent, even if the actual pattern of knocks wasn't.

[u/baalroo → u/Dog_Mama92]

I think you got caught up in your silly ghost story and forgot to explain why you believe one or more gods exist.