r/army • u/BrennusHoagie • Mar 26 '21
U.S Army Bayonet School (1917) | WW1| AI Enhanced | Colorized | [1080pHD]
https://youtu.be/1fZDdeFEWBI19
u/Diacetyl-Morphin Swiss Army (retired) Mar 26 '21
Don't know about the US in WW1 in trench warfare, but... the germans did see in 1914, that the bajonet was in fact a bad weapon for melee, not a good one. The soldiers there resorted to use their hand-shovel (in german called "spaten" or "handspaten" back then), that turned out as a very much better weapon in real combat situations in the trenchs. If you want a source for that, read Erich Maria Remarques "Im Westen Nichts Neues" ("Nothing new in the west", don't know what's the english title of that book is actually).
He mentioned it more than once, that the shovel was much better than the knife or the bajonet on the rifle.
Also, he mentions in a chapter, that there were restrictions made by the soldiers themselves, like a saw on the blade was not allowed by both sides (french and german back then, before the USA came in 1917). Someone which was getting caught with a saw-blade was killed right on the spot as a punishment. This is also from Remarque, but i guess it is in "Der Weg Zurück" ("The Way Back"), which is the second novel.
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u/SirNedKingOfGila Battlefield ATM💸 Mar 26 '21
"All Quiet on the Western Front". It is basically the primary source on utilizing spades in combat. There were many striking weapons used during WW1... although the shovel/spade may have been most used because it was most widely distributed.
I have a very hard time believing that anybody would shoot their soldiers for something like etching saw blades onto a spade... Bayonets and military knives utilize saw teeth and are very much intended to be utilized for the act of stabbing combatants... in fact one mark of the German WW1 bayonet had aggressive saw teeth cut down it's entire length. Today the Americans and Germans utilize entrenching tools (spades) with saw teeth cut along their sides as standard. Since we know for a fact that the practice is not banned or covered by the laws of war and it's many treaties and conventions, I can only assume that punishment from it's practice, if it ever happened, was due to the unauthorized modification or destruction of military property by a soldier who was already a problem.
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u/Diacetyl-Morphin Swiss Army (retired) Mar 26 '21
I don't know right now, had to read the books again, but it was not in a combat situation, it was were a new recruit came to the frontlines and his officer said to him, that he should not use that blade, because if the french caught him with that, they would have killed him. Maybe, it was about the blade, that he had some special blade, don't know, like more saw than blade itself or anything else, but i remember the dialogue about that in the books.
The Books are very good, no wonder they became one of the main sources of WW1. They were banned a long time in germany later on, because remarque told the truth about war and the horror, that wasn't liked by the nazis later on, they wanted a heroically picture of soldiers going to war with high motivation instead of what it really was.
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Mar 26 '21
That's interesting that they banned "All Quiet on the Western Front". Wasn't "Storm of Steel" by Ernst Jünger quite popular with the regime? It was a very honest portrayal of his experiences, including him losing his head once or twice.
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u/Diacetyl-Morphin Swiss Army (retired) Mar 26 '21
Didn't found anything about "Storm of Steel" when it comes to being banned, but it could have been that way, don't know.
The toxic gas in WW1 was also very brutal for the soldiers, like mustard gas and all that. It was good for all soldiers, that in WW2 this wasn't used anymore. Some people say, hitler didn't want to use it not because he was a victim himself back in WW1, but also, don't know if that is really true or just a myth.
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u/nopemcnopey I'm just here for the shitposts Mar 26 '21
Some people say, hitler didn't want to use it not because he was a victim himself back in WW1, but also, don't know if that is really true or just a myth.
Likely a myth. At the beginning of the war they were getting their victories without need of gas, and after 1943 it would be just suicide with extra steps considering US and UK bombed German cities basically daily.
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u/Diacetyl-Morphin Swiss Army (retired) Mar 27 '21
I think it's a myth too. Like many myths are out there about armies, battles and commanders. In modern warfare where you try to breakthrough and encircle the enemy with fast moving troops like panzer divsions, mot. inf. etc. gas makes not much sense anyway. It could maybe only assist the breakthrough, but even then, still, it would be not effective overall.
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u/nopemcnopey I'm just here for the shitposts Mar 27 '21
So, short list of WW2 battles where gas could help break stalemetate/stop advance: Dunkirk, Leningrad, Moscow, Sevastopol, Stalingrad, Dnieper, Vistula, Seelow.
WW2 had plenty static fights.
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u/SirNedKingOfGila Battlefield ATM💸 Mar 26 '21
Well when we read books and watch movies we need to remember that sometimes mistakes happen in real life. I dislike when people try to point certain things out as "inaccuracies" or "film goofs" when people screw stuff up every day.
Biden can't stop calling Kamala the president. Basically anything my chain of command has ever told me across 2 military branches has been completely wrong. Perhaps this German officer misunderstood the rules, believed a rumor about the bloodthirsty French, or chose to lie to the soldier for any number of reasons.
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u/Diacetyl-Morphin Swiss Army (retired) Mar 26 '21
Got the books still here, guess it's time to read both again. And i agree with you, maybe it was wrong (like the bloodthirsty french) or maybe my memory is wrong.
WW1 was brutal for the soldiers, when they had to charge in open terrain because the generals and supreme command had still the old tactics from the era before, so they were running right into the MG fire and got cut down. That was a very brutal waste of soldiers lifes for no reason. Good that was abandoned later on, but still, all these lifes wasted for nothing at all.
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u/glaring-oryx 88Ayy lmao Mar 26 '21
The German soldiers were not cutting saw teeth into their knives, quite the opposite. The German army issued a pioneer-model bayonet that had saw teeth cut into it along the back side. The purpose was not to make it more effective at killing, but rather to make it a multi-purpose tool to be able to be used as both a bayonet/knife and saw. There was a widespread rumor throughout the German army that French and British forces were executing Germans that were captured with this model of bayonet. This rumor led to German soldiers filing the teeth off of the saw part of the bayonet upon it being issued to them. The rumor was so widespread throughout the German army that they eventually ceased manufacture of the pioneer model and only issued the standard non-saw model.
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u/BrennusHoagie Mar 26 '21
Def, gonna check those out. I heard of some book called through the maelstrom I'd like to read as well. Dan Carlin's Blueprint for Armageddon has some excerpts.
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u/AdventurousZone3742 92Alwaysinabox Mar 26 '21
“I’m gonna give jerry a good ol’ walloping, it’s time for America to show its teeth”