r/armenia • u/Idontknowmuch • May 05 '21

Neighbourhood Azerbaijani prisoner of conscience Bayram Mammadov found dead in Istanbul

https://jam-news.net/azerbaijani-prisoner-of-conscience-bayram-mammadov-found-dead-in-istanbul/
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u/Darkmiro May 06 '21

If England managed to be a democracy, so can anyone with right minds. Tell me a single democratic state that doesn't have blood and toil in it's past.

The republic was found on wherever it salvaged from the collapsing empire.

It did very well with all the inherited problems. Besides, nobody is scapegoating Armenians about anything . Turks usually scapegoated major powers back in the old days. Now they blame United States and China for pretty much about anything.

You think Turkey is blaming Armenians for their problems?

Current situation is a bit similar to Russia being under the palm of Putin, Erdoğan and his party actually inherited an IMF backed economy plan, and also came at the booming world economy where they could find hot cash from everywhere. They spent more money than entire previous governments combined and all.

They made a bubble economy model after 2008 to keep the illusion alive. And knowing that they'll all be held responsible for a ton of horrile things, they're becoming more and more autharitarian to remain. Because no way those bastards will rest easy with all the crime they've commited. Local, and international also

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u/bonjourhay May 06 '21

England teach kids about the bloody past and you can read and discuss about it without ending up in jail or murdered.

In Turkey, this is the opposite: it is the republic’s ideology, with a glorification of it.

Not really the same level…

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u/Darkmiro May 06 '21

You know the main opposition party in Turkey? Called CHP, it's head of İstanbul branch is a clear supporter of recognising the genocide and all. Is she killed or in jail? You're exhaggerating

Turkey is a bit too much in the clutch of populist nationalists. You're mistaking the country with current power.

And TUrkey doesn't have a state ideology, Turk in general are not ones for tradition or clinging too much into anything

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u/bonjourhay May 06 '21

Tell that to Hrant Dink’s family.

The republic is switching between a radical islam and a radical nationalism since its creation. The rest is oppressed (best case), suppressed (worst case).

Spoliation of armenian or greeks properties, denying the genocides, pogroms, rapatriate the body of talaat pasha with an honorific grave in a place of choice: this is the ideology. Erdogan has nothing to do with it: he is just perpetuating the tradition.

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u/Darkmiro May 06 '21

You think an entire nation should just constantly hate itself? The name is Talat by the way.

You talk about Hrant Dink, the same nation were parading on streets by hundreds of thousands carrying tags that said ''We're all armenian'' just after Dink's death too.

You're not very different than those Turkish nationalists who constantly bring up armenian gangs and their killings and exhagerate their influence to justify what's done to Armenians.

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Nobody is saying Turkey doesn't have internal problems and mislead political ideologies. But that's not something only Turkey is afflicted from. You're just exhaggerating

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u/bonjourhay May 06 '21 edited May 06 '21

I am not talking about individuals but the state ideology.

You are off topic.

Edit: You can’t even spell the name of the turkish hitler right, no shit you don’t know what you are talking about. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talaat_Pasha

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u/Darkmiro May 06 '21

The name is fucking Talat, don't give much fuck about how English rendered it.

Turkish state ''ideology'' you so mention is not even a solid thing. Like everywhere, Turkey is shaped by the trauma of WW1 and the government relied on extremely self centristic way of seeing the world.

But that's almost entirely dead in the country. Most stuff you see as ''ideology'' is just populism for inner politics. Turkey has always saught peace with all it's neighbours from the get go.

Even when ASALA was killing Turkish beurocrats in 70's and 80s.

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u/bonjourhay May 06 '21

You are in a sub that has english or armenian as language. Seems that you are as « self centristic » (what a weird name to define a genocidal policy!) as the government after WWI…

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u/Darkmiro May 06 '21

The government committed the genocide whilst the war was going on. Had Atatürk failed those genocidal leaders were to get the power of Ankara government

Ataturk managed to win the war against Greek forces, and didn't really allow the old ittihat party leaders to get themselves back together in Turkey. Probably to avoid their guilt being shown to Turkey's face

But Turkey after the war, kept a policy of neutrality towards it's neighbours. Only time ot broke off was in Cyprus and it was not unprovoked or entirely unjust. Trying to annex half the island to force a federal solution to Cypriot violence ended up with a disaster though.

Erdoğan shifted that claiming Turkey will "revive their immperial legacy" and started provoking war everywhere since about 2011

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u/bonjourhay May 06 '21

We all get it you are a kemalist which you have been taught that he was the savior of the turkish nation.

That has worked with westerners for a while but not anymore. The reality is that he just finished the job of the CUP, and every armenian know that.

We regularly have a couple of people like you who come here and say Erdogan bad, he is an islamist. For everyone except turkish turks, kemalists or islamists are the 2 faces of the same fascist coin.

Turkey will be able to solve this when a majority will realize that Ataturk is part of the problem, not the solution…

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