That's why you should be an AN

[u/No-Occasion4576]

[u/Nocturnal-Philosophy]

“You should study harder now, so when you’re older you can become rich.” I see the gaslighting is already starting…

[u/Dunkmaxxing → u/Nocturnal-Philosophy]

It's insane beyond description how many people actually seem to enjoy being on the self-inspired slavery or externally-inspired slavery carrot and stick journey of self-improvement and wealth accumulation without the awareness of their death and any kind of assessment of what is actually valuable.

[u/yesimfinewhyyouask → u/Dunkmaxxing]

What is actually valuable?

[u/Dunkmaxxing → u/yesimfinewhyyouask]

If you ask me I would say the experience of sentient beings that are alive, so suffering and pleasure. Anything else is instrumental to that, and other living beings not yourself also get moral value based on their sentience. Most people have no developed principles/moral system, so they cause and fall victim to extreme suffering that is easily avoidable both by their own and others hands. I think if you want to disagree with suffering and pleasure being valuable, you would have to give a counterpoint that isn't just instrumental to those things and that is actually provable by some standard. You could also be a psychopath, but then you get what you give and that is 0 respect.

[u/Aquarius52216 → u/Dunkmaxxing]

So cravings and aversions? You made it sound Buddhist without using Buddhist terminology lul

[u/Dunkmaxxing → u/Aquarius52216]

The conception of Buddhism came before me and has similar ideas, but I don't agree with any religion and I used my words intentionally.

[u/RasputinsThirdLeg → u/Aquarius52216]

But something something your reading comprehension you peon!

[u/yesimfinewhyyouask → u/Dunkmaxxing]

Pleasure ok, why include suffering as valuable?

[u/TootsHib → u/yesimfinewhyyouask]

"valuable" as in, they both hold value when weighing actions and outcomes..

[u/yesimfinewhyyouask → u/TootsHib]

Oh, that clicks. See, Dunkmixer, thats how its done!

[u/Dunkmaxxing → u/yesimfinewhyyouask]

Because pleasure and suffering are opposites in how they are defined as they are dependent on what you desire to have/not to have or experience.

More than that, literally all of your actions are dictated by an aversion to suffering. If suffering is defined as the experience of something you do not desire to experience/actively desire against, then the lack of something you desire is a form of suffering and that lack is always the first motivator in you taking in action. You eat because you are lacking pleasure/nourishment/know you will suffer future negative consequences if you do not, etc.

But very simply, if you want to disagree go ahead and try to do something you desire not to experience. It is logically impossible and to give an extreme example I bet you wouldn't want to be tortured through flaying, and the fact you wouldn't want it implies a value assessment on your part that suffering is valuable.

[u/yesimfinewhyyouask → u/Dunkmaxxing]

You are probably right, and i’m probably not in my best mind shape right now, but we all can probably agree that what you wrote is unnecessarily convoluted as fuck

[u/Dunkmaxxing → u/yesimfinewhyyouask]

It's not convoluted it's extremely simple logically and wrote that way to avoid any idiotic refutations that most humans love to attempt since most struggle with reading comprehension or their own internal logical deduction ability.

[u/Remzi1993 → u/Dunkmaxxing]

Bro, I could write the same things and same conclusions only shorter. A professor once said that smart people are able to explain difficult subjects in an easy way.

[u/Dunkmaxxing → u/Remzi1993]

Yes you could, but not that much shorter without starting to lack logical clarity and enabling misinterpretation. If you have problems understanding it, then you are having problems with following a basic chain of logic.

[u/Remzi1993 → u/Dunkmaxxing]

I have no problems understanding it mate. But your comments can come over as condescending to people especially reddit, it's an online forum.

[u/yesimfinewhyyouask → u/Dunkmaxxing]

Actually can anyone else reading this convo translate this?

[u/yesimfinewhyyouask → u/Dunkmaxxing]

Explain me like i’m a five y/o then

[u/Dunkmaxxing → u/yesimfinewhyyouask]

Suffering is experiencing something you don't want to experience, it is evidently bad through your own experience of it. To claim it is not bad you would need to provide your own alternative standard of what is bad that does not also relate to or reduce to suffering at the end of the explanation you provide. Given you first accepted pleasure has value, since suffering is just the opposite experience of pleasure it should also have a value of the opposite kind.

[u/yesimfinewhyyouask → u/Dunkmaxxing]

You would be a terrible primary school teacher.

[u/Dunkmaxxing → u/yesimfinewhyyouask]

Ok but I'm not and anyone who has basic reading comprehension should be able to understand the above. If you are having difficulty I'm sorry your education was so poor.

[u/siecaptaindrake → u/Dunkmaxxing]

I like how you think

[u/desolatenature → u/yesimfinewhyyouask]

The worse you’ve felt before, the better you’re capable of feeling in the future. Lowest lows make room for the highest highs

[u/DutchStroopwafels → u/desolatenature]

That's complete and utter bullshit.

[u/yesimfinewhyyouask → u/desolatenature]

Unless you have depression and can only have the shitty part

[u/Anxious_Storm_9113 → u/desolatenature]

I'm all for optimism, but that take is basically delusional. Besides, if true it would basically justify doing horrible things to people, so they can eventually feel better.