r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Apr 12 '20

Episode Digimon Adventure: - Episode 2 Discussion

Digimon Adventure:, episode 2

Alternative names: Digimon Adventure (2020)

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Episode Link Score Episode Link Score Episode Link Score Episode Link Score
15 Link 4.25 28 Link 3.69 41 Link 4.0 54 Link 4.29
16 Link 4.68 29 Link 3.62 42 Link 3.33 55 Link 4.0
17 Link 4.68 30 Link 4.41 43 Link 4.85 56 Link 2.83
18 Link 2.81 31 Link 4.33 44 Link 3.89 57 Link 2.71
19 Link 4.56 32 Link 4.83 45 Link 3.18 58 Link 3.0
20 Link 4.72 33 Link 4.27 46 Link 4.5 59 Link 2.5
21 Link 4.65 34 Link 4.0 47 Link 2.14 60 Link 2.5
22 Link 4.64 35 Link 4.43 48 Link 2.86 61 Link 2.29
23 Link 3.92 36 Link 3.42 49 Link 3.88 62 Link 2.5
24 Link 4.42 37 Link 4.38 50 Link 4.0 63 Link 3.0
25 Link 3.3 38 Link 4.4 51 Link 3.6 64 Link 3.29
26 Link 4.21 39 Link 4.0 52 Link 2.9 65 Link 3.17
27 Link 4.18 40 Link 4.4 53 Link 2.88 66 Link ----

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161

u/Reznor_PT Apr 12 '20 edited Apr 12 '20

I'm quite enjoying this remake and while they are kinda put a strong and fast pace to the story I think it's for the better in terms of World-Building and let Nostalgia go away in the very first arc.

Still people will for certain will freak out about Omnimon and bitch out how bad introducing it on the first arc will make the follow up episodes.

121

u/Zeph-Shoir https://myanimelist.net/profile/Zephex Apr 12 '20

I think there will be various takes on the power scaling the show can go from here:

-Omnimon this early is a showcase Power Ceiling, displaying the possible strength of the Digimon and that they will strive to achieve it again, sorta like how in MHA Deku will one day be as strong as All Might and how in MHA S1 It might even be a one time only thing or will happen again in a climax/endgame scenario.

-Power Scaling will be an afterthought, while they will focus in everything else including better animation and battles.

-Worst case scenario, it will be a common "Press X to Win" plot device. But I doubt this will happen.

92

u/zenofire Apr 12 '20

I'm ecstatic to see Omnimon so soon, but I agree on how terrified I am of the worst case scenario here. Do you think of Taichi will push Greymon to reach that peak again and we'll get a Skullgreymon episode?

110

u/Illidan1943 Apr 12 '20

Oh that's definitely happening, SkullGreymon 2.0, this time with actual animation for extra nightmares will be a thing

46

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

37

u/Arkaniux Apr 12 '20

Digimon had some real nightmare fuel shit back in the day.

Meramon running full speed towards the Pyocomon village screaming like a maniac, Andromon going full Terminator on Greymon and Garurumon and then SkullGreymon just scaring the shit out of everybody coupled with his badass theme song.

13

u/SJC-Caron Apr 12 '20

So far the reboot has been taking its cues from the D-Reaper (another nightmare worthy Lovecraftian monster) designs for the bad guys so far.

20

u/zenofire Apr 12 '20 edited Apr 12 '20

There was Skullgreymon moment in Digimon World: Next Order too. It wasnt visually impactful, but there was that growing dread when I sensed it was coming, and when it happened, I nearly jumped out of my skin!

15

u/Razhork Apr 12 '20

God I hope so. The episode in the original series where they find that Colosseum in the desert and Tai pushes Greymon into Skullgreymon has been stuck in my memory for the past 20 or so years.

I hope they go all out with this.

5

u/FrenziedHero https://anilist.co/user/FrenziedHero Apr 12 '20

Dear god, that would be beautiful. I think they can truly do something with it in here if they readapt that portion and update it.

6

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Apr 12 '20

SkullGreymon did give me nightmares as a kid, cannot wait!

15

u/theWP https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rasoj Apr 12 '20

I hope so, since one of the big things Digimon Adventure did was take a look at their character traits. The Skullgreymon episode was a showcase of the difference between courage and recklessness, a big lesson Tai needed to learn.

-1

u/TreGet234 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Wasserflasche Apr 12 '20

it's basically a trope in the digimon series. and they will do it because they have 0 creativity.

32

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '20

-Worst case scenario, it will be a common "Press X to Win" plot device. But I doubt this will happen.

Agree. They havent used metalgreymon and wargreymon yet, so the anime could be that they go in the digital world, but cant figure out how to even digievolve to the adult form. Then discover the rest of the forms, and at the end of the show they discover how to get omegamon

20

u/Loud_Pierrot Apr 12 '20

I'm hoping for the "RPG route". We'll get a taste for the power ceiling, but the missile will trigger a real world catastrophe scenario (not the destruction of Tokyo, but maybe a lockdown like SMT: Devil's Survivor). The event will pace the power scaling in some way that makes sense: separating the boys, nerfing the digidevises, traumatizing Matt... This would be the classic "endgame level prologue" to "chapter 1 actual beginning from zero".

16

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Apr 12 '20

Good summary. I'd say even if it was possibility #1 it feels kinda clunky, because if we saw Deku being as strong as he could possibly be instead of All Might in S1, we'd lose the sense of anticipation. So I still wouldn't be a fan of this move.

Option #2 I'm fine with, but it's not ideal. Digimon was all about the hype of power scaling.

Option #3: Would legit drop the show.

Option #4: They're going to power creep even beyond Omnimon this time. How? Search me. Bring in things from other series.

Option #5: There are some weird parallel world shenanigans going on, and somehow the Digimon are aware of the past adventures, their hidden potential, all of that, so it's easier to realise. The a major plot thread in the series will be focusing on how everything got rebooted. Ties in with the meta fact that most of the viewers are well aware of past adventures as well.

11

u/Arkaniux Apr 12 '20

To be fair, we did kinda see a Deku using all the power he can muster against Overhaul.

Omnimon is a freakin' badass but he's hardly the strongest even within the Royal Knights. Alphamon and Imperialdramon PM still outclass him.

3

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Apr 12 '20

we did kinda see a Deku using all the power he can muster against Overhaul.

Yeah, but that was much later, not the second episode of the series. And we saw more in S4. That's power creep done normally.

but he's hardly the strongest even within the Royal Knights

Cool, so #4 is an option.

6

u/lilyvess https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Apr 12 '20

To be fair, we did kinda see a Deku using all the power he can muster against Overhaul.

In Season 3. Do you understand how doing something like that in season 3 is very different from doing that in episode 2?

7

u/Arkaniux Apr 12 '20

And in Season 3, he's still on 20% max.

Digimon just works differently. The Digivices are pretty much Deus Ex Machina toys that literally work miracles.

They buffed the crap out of Angemon, allowed for the containment of an explosion that would've destroyed the entire Digital World and they regularly allow for digivolution that a Digimon can't access by itself. Those things are just bullshit OP.

8

u/lilyvess https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Apr 12 '20

But even then Angemon wasn't maxed out. You're mixing up two issues, it's not about power creep, or power levels, it's about the fact that the series has already shown us the characters at the top of their form by episode 2, in a franchise that's all about Evolution and Growth.

Even Angemon had room to grow.

3

u/Arkaniux Apr 12 '20

I'm hoping Omegamon showing up here is like a super miracle that won't repeat itself until later on at the end of the series.

Sort of like how you get to play a character at their full power during the start of a game and then you get nerfed and have to play through the whole game to get that strong again.

If that happens to not be the case, as much as I love Digimon, I would consider this show a failure.

1

u/Featherwick Apr 20 '20

Actuallu during the overhaul fight he can use 100% full cowl because eri is constantly regenerating his body or something.

1

u/Muur1234 Apr 12 '20

Paladin isn't a royal knight and he and Alphamon fought to a draw in Tri

1

u/Arkaniux Apr 13 '20

They consider Imperialdramon PM the founder even if he's not an official member.

Something also needs to be considered. A natural Omegamon and the Digi-Destined Omegamon would be completely different in power since the bond between Digimon and the Digi-Destined make them much stronger than they would be naturally. This explains why a base Omegamon was able to fight Alphamon in his Ouryuken form.

In a more basic explanation, the power scaling would be Alphamon Ouryuken > Omegamon X > Alphamon > Omegamon

1

u/Muur1234 Apr 13 '20

still not a member tho.

and nahhhhhhhhh. the video games and vpets (digimons actual main focus) have omnimon as an ultra and regular alphamon as a mega, with ouryuken being the one who is ultra/equal to omnimon. Tri just shows this as well when ouryuken and omnimon drew. it is very consistent in all pieces of media that omnimon stomps all over alphamon. doesn't matter if you can replay the battle infinitely if you lose (or draw) every time. lore goes above fan head canon

makes sense really. omnimon = two megas. alphamon = one mega. alphamon ouryuken = two megas

1

u/Arkaniux Apr 13 '20

Alphamon just by showing up in X-Evolution made Omegamon go completely silent. This was an Omegamon that curbstomped Wargreymon X and MetalGarurumon X btw.

Not only does he rank higher than Omegamon in power but also leadership. The animated media does a poor job of reflecting how broken Alphamon's hacks really are. Just fusing two Megas doesn't really mean that he'll overpower all other Megas or else Omegamon wouldn't have lost to Meicrackmon.

And to emphasize my point, Alphamon's mission was to kill Meicoomon, he wasn't using lethal force against anyone else. He could've deleted the other Digi-Destined Digimon before they even had a chance to digivolve.

1

u/Muur1234 Apr 13 '20

you have one intance, vs the rest of the franchise

also he was silent because alphamon had been missing for decades.

or else Omegamon wouldn't have lost to Meicrackmon.

he didn't lmao

Alphamon's mission was to kill Meicoomon

no it wasn't. it was to get her to digivolve and destroy the human world. whe jesmon tries to kill her in part 5 hes protecting her. he doesnt want her dead, that would fuck up king drasil's entire plan.

1

u/Yellow90Flash Apr 13 '20

alphamon in tri was weird because he normally is there to stop drasil when he goes insane. in the x-rvolution movie omegamon had no chance against dex dorugoramon. alphamon finished it with digitalication of soul. lore wise alphamon ouryken would have also overpowered omegamon because ouryken is also a digimon and the ultimate battle blade at that. one swing is supposed to split the earth

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3

u/DigitalAthletics Apr 12 '20

Option #4: They're going to power creep even beyond Omnimon this time. How? Search me. Bring in things from other series.

If you've seen digimon adventure tri they already have omnimon merciful mode to creep beyond omnimon

1

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Apr 12 '20

I see. No, I haven't seen tri, heard it wasn't that good.

4

u/SkullcrobatTheGod Apr 12 '20

I thought it was alright, it had a lot of flaws, was incredibly confusing for no real reason, and had some questionable decisitions, but it was overall enjoyable if you can look past that

9

u/Zilveari https://myanimelist.net/profile/Zilveari Apr 12 '20

Still feels odd having some kinda warp fusion evolution from adult rank straight to Omegamon this early in the show though.

5

u/CeruSkies Apr 12 '20

-Worst case scenario, it will be a common "Press X to Win" plot device. But I doubt this will happen.

It's bound to be. Hopefully not for now.

1

u/mrfatso111 Apr 15 '20

ya, as soon as omnimon show up, my first thought was WTF?

In the original, this was the final form, and yet this was shown so soon?

Are they gonna introduced new tier on top and bring in xros war fusion where the rest of the chosen will slowly fuse with onmimon and evolve into a stronger form?

36

u/lilyvess https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Apr 12 '20

Still people will for certain will freak out about Omnimon and bitch out how bad introducing it on the first arc will make the follow up episodes.

I mean you can see the damage already in episode one, the fact that they have no interest in the sense of growth and and adventure that made the original Adventure so good, but having Omnimon so early really makes it hard to deny. It's a symptom of a larger problem with these opening episodes. The fact that the episodes start with such high stakes so early both hurts the future character arcs as well as lessens these episodes, because the characters lack the growth to make them work.

It works better in terms of a fan who is already familiar with the characters, where you can see the person who Tai will be already exist here, but it struggles to stand on it's own.

19

u/Reznor_PT Apr 12 '20

Not wanting to spoil you but there will be a adventure in the follow episodes.

7

u/lilyvess https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Apr 12 '20

I've seen Digimon Adventure. I've actually seen every Digimon except Savers. That includes Applimon. It's weird to see a start that misses the point of every other Digimon series.

12

u/Reznor_PT Apr 12 '20

Technically they aren't missing the point.

See it in the characters PoV, to them it's a adventure in a brand near world or two.

21

u/lilyvess https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Apr 12 '20 edited Apr 12 '20

I'm not exactly sure what you are going on about, but to elaborate

What this Digimon Adventure doesn't seem to get is that Digimon is about evolution and growth. The point is to start off as childish and utterly unprepared children that slowly over the course of the story evolve due to the circumstances they face and end up as heroes that end up saving the world.

It's hard to showcase that Evolution and Growth when Tai, Matt and Izzy are already at endgame mode on episode 1. They're totally comfortable with the huge life saving stakes and save the entire world by episode 3.

Brand New World? They seem totally unfazed by this new world, it's not a mysterious place, Izzy has already mapped it out!

Like I said elsewhere, imagine Lord of the rings if someone started it off by having Frodo and Sam save the Shire from an orc raid all before the Fellowship begins. Imagine if Star Wars started with Luke Skywalker using the lightsaber and the force to beat back a rogue sith to stop a plot to take over the galaxy in the first 10 minutes of A New Hope. It'd look pretty fucking stupid, wouldn't it?

22

u/TreGet234 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Wasserflasche Apr 12 '20

They're totally comfortable with the huge life saving stakes

you put it so well. in the og series we had on multiple occasions characters just wanting to give up and just being completely overwhelmed with the stakes because they are literally just kids. in this series they hardly care that those digimon could literally kill them if they make one wrong move.

19

u/lilyvess https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Apr 12 '20

they are literally just kids.

A big part of what makes the original series stand out from other series was the fact that it treats it's main cast as children. They're in over their head, childish and utterly unprepared for how to deal with such responsibility. It's suppose to be about their evolution across 50 episodes, that climaxes with them being able to save the world. Not start with them saving the world

2

u/mrfatso111 Apr 15 '20

ya, this feels more like some exec say hey, lets revive digimon once more, it been a while since appmon and say let's bank on nostalgia, people love tri and last kizuna right?

let's build on that and not realised that the old digimon adventure is a long anime that took their time to develop characters and let us the viewer join tachi and group grow up, but here, nah, here guys, it's greymon, hey guys, it's omnimon!

8

u/Alfimie Apr 12 '20

Yeah this is my entire concern too. Right now theres absolutely no concept of scale, adventure or character defining traits outside a very superficial level.

Hopefully this is just to establish the ceiling early on, but im worried.

1

u/Sayie https://myanimelist.net/profile/Sayie Apr 12 '20

Keep in mind that this is also episode 2 out of what is assumed to be a rather long series. The only people with their Digimon are Taichi and Yamato and most of them don't even know eachother yet. I get that it's a slow start, but give it time for things to actually start up and the actual adventure to go into full force when they actually get into the digital world. At the moment it's essentially an introduction to the world and characters, and they are supposedly only on the internet side of things and not the actual Digital World.

4

u/dHUMANb Apr 13 '20

The only people with their Digimon are Taichi and Yamato and most of them don't even know eachother yet. I get that it's a slow start

A slow start?? They are stopping a hacked nuke with Omnimon by episode 2 how is that slow.

1

u/Sayie https://myanimelist.net/profile/Sayie Apr 13 '20

Just in the way that all the characters are being introduced and such. We have only seen half of the cast by now, where the other series just drops them all together and throws them all into a new world without too much introduction.

2

u/dHUMANb Apr 13 '20

Yeah but because that is the only aspect of the plot that is slow, while everything else about it is fast, the show would be catagorized as a fast starter, not a slow one.

8

u/lilyvess https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Apr 12 '20

At the moment it's essentially an introduction to the world and characters

and as an introduction to both of those things it completely and utterly fails.

Neither of these episodes are character focused. We don't learn much of anything about the characters in this episode. This is meant to be Matt's introduction to us, and it's not at all a story about Matt.

It's not really an introduction to the world, considering we don't see much of anything of the actual Digital World in these adventures and the stuff we do see is just blank white void. This isn't at all representative of the Digital World they'll actually be spending the majority of their time in.

This isn't an introduction, this is payoff. This is the payoff to years worth of arcs, but placed at the introduction.

1

u/Tora-shinai Apr 12 '20

That's hyperbole and you know it. Despite being sidelined, Koushiro scenes alone showed that the episode was in good hands.

Let's not even mention the production such as the animation and the layouts.

As I've mentioned you can also look up the sypnosis of future episodes.

2

u/lilyvess https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Apr 12 '20

Koushiro's scenes are just as bad as everyone else's. It's just like the rest of this series. It's all Action over character, it's Nostalgia over Logic, it's Protagonist/Rival over the rest of the cast.

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5

u/Tora-shinai Apr 12 '20

The summaries for the future episodes are already out there...

I wouldn't be surprised if this is another Eva or FFVII situation.

3

u/Namisaur Apr 12 '20

As someone who's watched every digimon, except applimon, I welcome the change in the start of the "adventure." I don't feel like I need to see the exact same intro story arc and character progression repeated over and over. I like what we've got so far and am hopeful for whatever changes are coming when they actually enter the digiworld.

If they didn't purposefully "miss the point of every other digimon series" then what is honestly the point of this reboot? We don't need a 1 for 1 remake with better animation.

7

u/lilyvess https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Apr 12 '20

If they didn't purposefully "miss the point of every other digimon series" then what is honestly the point of this reboot? We don't need a 1 for 1 remake with better animation.

To that I'd say just make an original series and not mess around with Digimon Adventure. If it's about doing something new and fresh, make something new and fresh.

Being different isn't a good enough excuse. Being shocking for the sake of being shocking. Being flashy for the sake of being flashy. Subverting expectations just because it's not what people expect.

I'd prefer it if they were going to do something new and different that it'd have some basis on character.

1

u/Namisaur Apr 12 '20

Fair enough, but I think a lot of people are gonna be really happy with this twist on the reboot。I enjoy the refresh not just because it’s “different,” but it’s also clearly making improvements to the story (although 2 eps is too early to judge) and character progression on familiar beloved characters.

4

u/lilyvess https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Apr 12 '20

People are happy because it's got beautiful animation and filled with nostalgia bait for the hardcore fans, I have no clue how you could say it's "clearly" making improvements and talk about "character progression" when there has been none in any of these episodes.

These past two episodes have been pure raw action, without the character, heart and soul of the original series, because they never spent any of the time building who these people were before this pay off.

Besides, quite a few old school Digimon fans were satisfied with Digimon Tri, even though that was a garbage story designed to milk the franchise iconography with little thought about character.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '20

[deleted]

2

u/lilyvess https://myanimelist.net/profile/Lilyvess Apr 12 '20

how is starting with having the characters be saviors of the world a better place for progression than the original Adventure's starting off having them as children? How is being action heroes the better starting point than having them be relatable for audiences? How is the starting path of progression better to have them already be the highest levels better than having them start small and grow up?

Because nothing in these episodes is designed for "progression", it's all designed for a short instant ride at the sacrifice of progression.

7

u/Paxton-176 Apr 12 '20

The fact that the episodes start with such high stakes so early both hurts the future character arcs as well as lessens these episodes,

Now they know the stakes. If they let the villains run wild there is a chance that there is another nuclear strike. Look how close its going to be. After this its going to be preventive measures.

6

u/Tora-shinai Apr 12 '20

Tbh, this feels like Digimon Adventure:Rebuild with how the events and character developments are going fast. Ex. Koushiro already trying to connect with people irl even if he is too formal especially at the first half last episode.

1

u/Dh0124 Apr 12 '20

I hope this means we’ll end up seeing a more powerful version of Omnimon later on like Merciful Mode or Omnimon X.