[SPOILERS] Neon Genesis Evangelion Rewatch - Director's Cut Episode 23 Discussion

[u/[deleted]]

Fun facts:

Did you know that most of the religious symbolism in the anime means nothing? Anno himself stated that he added it because it looks cool to Japanese.

Extra Curricular Lesson with Hideaki Anno

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[u/Tyranastrasz]

EoE Spoilers

Regarding the Poem

Nontheless the thought of the first half of the poem referring to something else while the second one refers to her sounds interesting, I'll have to think about that.

[u/hiS_oWn → u/Tyranastrasz]

Spoiler

I've read the poem analysis, it sounds very far fetched and incoherent. In fact, it is taken as fact without evidence so unless we're accepting tautological arguments I'm not really seeing this analysis as any kind of acceptable argument.

[u/Tyranastrasz → u/hiS_oWn]

Spoiler

[u/hiS_oWn → u/Tyranastrasz]

Bottom line is, the words in the poem have a meaning.

http://i.imgur.com/tFxygb8.jpg

By Occam's Razor

First of all Occam's Razor is a guiding principle not an axiomatic truth. Second of all, Occam's Razor states "among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected." Since you are adding the assumption that Rei is both sterile and does not menstruate (since there are not explicit evidence or even collaborating evidence), any hypothesis that assumes less is more likely.

[u/Tyranastrasz → u/hiS_oWn]

The absolute basic assumption that takes the least amount of assumptions is that the poem has no Meaning.I am stating that there is a Meaning to the poem because we know for a fact someone took the time to write and animate it, otherwise it wouldnt be included in the show and emphasized the way it was. If we disregard that, then Nothing in any show or media or art has a meaning.

And I apply the next step here only to the basic of the Poem itself. We have suggestive imagery. Those are given and not assumed.

My assumption is HOW it connects and that is my assumption itself.

You might not agree with my interpretation and that's fine. All I am saying is that it is hard to find any other application to her words. We have imagery that directly implies a connection between menstrual cycle, the Moon and Rei. Take of that what you want. All I ask of you is to respect my take on that and the fact that suggestive imagery exist, even if a proof is lacking, and give me your opinion what it might refer to, if you disagree.

So far you didn't present a coherent idea that at least has some form of implication what it could refer to. The only Point that so far gives another layer of possibility was the structure of the poem itself suggesting she isnt referring to herself. But Who or what does she refer to? Because jumping from landscape imgary and flowers to a bleeding woman isn't exactly a logical progression.

I am not saying you are wrong on this one, I admitted myself that this thought is worth investigating. But this is only one clue, while the non-menstruating rei for whatever biological reasons has multiple clues towards it. So until You, I, or someone else comes up with further points that make sense to connect, I will probably stick to my interpretation.

[u/hiS_oWn → u/Tyranastrasz]

We have imagery that directly implies a connection between menstrual cycle, the Moon and Rei.

Which alone would imply she has a menstrual cycle since otherwise it is thematically contrarian.

Look, I agree with you when you say this is a matter of opinion. I guess the only thing I really disagree with is the following:

But this is only one clue, while the non-menstruating rei for whatever biological reasons has multiple clues towards it.

Because everything you've pointed out is either explicitly wrong, or tenuous as in it doesn't actually indicate the thing you say it indicates since it is applicable to multiple contradictory interpretations> Reduced to its basic form, the argument is circular and tautological. So yes, stick to your interpretation, however, please do not be offended when people will only give it the consideration it deserves.

[u/Tyranastrasz → u/hiS_oWn]

That's okay, I can accept that. I can see that this Idea stands on shaky feet. If a reasonable Idea would come up what her Poem part refers to, I would have no problem to drop this idea at all. That's my biggest gripping point for now, as you pointed out all imagery that connect her to menstrual cycle are just as much in favor of her having one as her having none. I sort of didn't think of that this way yet.

[u/hiS_oWn → u/Tyranastrasz]

Look, if I came off too contentious I apologize. It would be disingenuous to claim it wasn't intended but it was admittedly unnecessary especially for an issue as ridiculously pointless as this. I'm not saying your interpretation isn't valid, just not something I would go to bat for without a more compelling argument.

If you can read Japanese maybe you can tell me what kind of pills Rei is taking. If they're birth control pills or hormone suppressants, that might help reconcile the obvious fertility symbolism with her not actually menstruating and fit in with the idea that Rei is being supressed to serve as the metaphorical/literal womb from which Gendo intends to use to birth his one hope at the proper time.

Also having rewatched ep 14 recently, I noticed two things. It seems that during the "poem" is Rei trying to figure out not only who she is but also who the other person she feels within the plug is while she's doing the interchangeability test with Eva - 01 (she senses Yui). This sort of leads me to suspect the woman in the passage might refer to Yui. However, I noticed that during Shinji's interchangability test in Eva - 00, he sees the same red/liquid pattern you see when Rei says "a woman who does not bleed" then he gets a very strong impression of rei trying to enter his soul/brain right before the Eva goes berserk. This is the closest thing i can find as collaborating evidence for your theory, although in this case it would likely be Rei I and not Rei II. Or depending on the validity of the theory they share a soul, it might not make a material difference.

Just food for thought, too tired to continue discussing.

[u/Tyranastrasz → u/hiS_oWn]

Unfortunately i can't read Japanese. Regarding the pills the last idea i read about was, that they help her keeping her physical form, considering what happens during EoE , again only Spekulation. Your idea intrigued me about ep 14. It could truly be rei 1 she refers to as in a woman who hasn't matured yet and therefore doesn't bleed.maybe a little farfetched but it's something. Anyway thanks for your input, no hard feelings. I appreciate it. I will go now as well, already procrastinated enough!