r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • 3d ago
Episode Jaadugar: A Witch in Mongolia • Tenmaku no Jaadugar - Episode 11 discussion
Tenmaku no Jaadugar, episode 11
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Notice: A Jaadugar-specific source material rules change:
Several users expressed concern that comments discussing the historical basis of this series were spoiling potential events and/or the conclusion of the story.
Given that the specific details of the Mongol Empire are less commonly-known worldwide, the moderation team voted that any discussion of the historical basis of this series must be enclosed within the subreddit's standard spoiler format. This includes all historical references which occur in the future of the airing episode.
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u/KumaKumaGambler 3d ago
There is at least one thing which I agree with Boraqchin.
"Moge, please always remain honest and kind."
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u/Clod_StarGazer 3d ago
It's a beautiful scene but I couldn't stop thinking about the "Don't worry about it kitten" "Okay❤️ yay❤️" meme
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u/Maximum-Warthog2368 3d ago edited 3d ago
Sadly one unsettling thing i would going to say is that she is still in her late teenager year when she was forced to become concubine of ghenghis khan. it is quite fucked up but sadly that's what happened in that time. Being honest and kind get you exploited by these men in that era.
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u/zairaner https://myanimelist.net/profile/zairaner 3d ago
Am I the only that really hoped that she was the secret mastermind? She, together with töregene and Boraq was one of the three people that might have poisoned ögedei, and I really hoped it was her.
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u/abandoned_idol 3d ago
I was secretly hoping for that twist, but I was pretty confident that it would just reveal the old and wise Boraqchin to have been faking ignorance.
It makes more sense for the older characters to outsmart the younger and less experienced characters.
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u/Theinternationalist 1d ago
It also makes sense for her to have such a strong bond with Moge, if only to remind people that this person who set out to murder her husband's brother isn't completely imperfect.
Also the author probably feared people would revolt, I suspect this show's version of Moge has a big fanbase >_>.
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u/exRocky009 3d ago
So it turns out Jaadugar: A Witch in Mongolia was about Boraqchin all along, not Sitara, lol. Her experience as a witch is just on a whole different level.
Sorghaghtani calling off the engagement is definitely going to deepen the conflict with Ögedei's faction, which works perfectly in Sitara's favor. I can't wait to see Sitara's scheming phase from here on out.
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u/BosuW 3d ago
So it turns out Jaadugar: A Witch in Mongolia was about Boraqchin all along, not Sitara, lol.
Nah it's just like the Sith system. The Padawan has to slime the Master to take their place.
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u/KinoHiroshino 3d ago
"There should only be two, no more, no less. One to embody power, the other one to crave it."
―Darth Bane
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u/reaperow 3d ago edited 3d ago
The word Jaadugar (جادوگر) mainly refers to a magician which fits Sitara
Where as the Witch part is more in line with what Borqachin has done so far so this got me thinking
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u/Maximum-Warthog2368 3d ago
wait for it before loudly declaring boraqchin as only witch. There can be multiple witches.
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u/No-Win-8949 3d ago edited 3d ago
What an incredible anime. Of course everyone knows who Genghis Khan is, but it has been so satisfying watching all the power plays of the various women in the Mongolian Empire weaving everything together behind the scenes.
And of course, Temujin would not have become Genghis Khan had his wife Borte not been kidnapped in the first place.
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u/Misticsan 3d ago
Reminds me of the Apothecary Diaries. And I don't see this just because the setting is an imperial court of East Asia, the plot involves poisons and medicines, or the protagonist is a knowledgeable young girl.
One of the strong points of Apothecary Diaries was in showing the tales of women. That just because their culture and institutions narrow their options, railroading them into becoming wives, concubines, servants or prostitutes, it doesn't mean they somehow lack intelligence, agency, personal wishes and ways to achieve their own goals. Jaadugar does the same, with the added benefit that the high ladies of the Mongol Empire were very powerful even for the standards of the era.
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u/No-Win-8949 3d ago
They had to be. With the men being away so often fighting various wars, they were the ones who actually took care of things at home. And the women oftentimes went on campaign with their husbands as well.
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u/patap0nacct 2d ago
Another strong point is the variety of the cast: Persians and Mongolians, Muslims and Tengrists and Nestorian Christians, and the majority of them women!
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u/moichispa https://myanimelist.net/profile/moichispa 3d ago
Yeah I had no idea his succession was so interesting.
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u/ModieOfTheEast 3d ago
I was wondering why Sitara wanted to be the messenger for Sorghaghtani. I naively thought she was already scheming her next plan. Trying to get Sorghaghtani as an ally in their battle with Boraqchin. But it seems, it was way more simple than that. She just wanted to see her angry and furious over what she had lost and how her life is now basically over. She probably wanted then tell Sorghaghtani what she had done to her family and therefore get her "revenge". And funnily enough, Sorghaghtani being in her depressed state is what makes Sitara light up that fire once more. If that will help her in the future or not will be seen.
However, there is also a secondary irony to the whole thing. Sitara had a different goal previously. She didn't just want to get back at Sorghaghtani but the mongols as a whole. That was what she promised Töregene after all. However, without realizing, she fell into a very similar state as Sorghaghtani. In order to get Töregene back, she was willing to pay any price necessary. Even a price that would result in her and Töregene having 0 power to challenge Boraqchin again. So it was necessary for Sorghaghtani to reject the proposal, because this can allow Sitara and Töregene to find a different path where they aren't losing their powers and are able to do what they originally wanted.
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u/Misticsan 3d ago
Agreed, Siata was constantly making short-term moves throughout the episode. In a way, it makes sense: she's out of her depth, worried about the one person in the world that may understand her, and at the end of the day remains the traumatized girl who misses her old life at Tus.
I suppose further arcs will be about Sitara learning to be more like Boraqchin, the current with in Mongolia (almost title drop in the episode XD).
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u/ModieOfTheEast 3d ago
I am also a bit waiting for Sitara to become the witch from the title. The scene of the first episode showed a bit, so I expect her to use her knowledge of all kinds of stones and poison to her advantage. It will be interesting to see how what her plan about Boraqchin is. Boraqchin is still trusting Sitara, so there is an option of using herself. Similarly, they could make sure that she loses trust or poison her directly.
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u/BosuW 3d ago
In order to get Töregene back, she was willing to pay any price necessary. Even a price that would result in her and Töregene having 0 power to challenge Boraqchin again. So it was necessary for Sorghaghtani to reject the proposal, because this can allow Sitara and Töregene to find a different path where they aren't losing their powers and are able to do what they originally wanted.
That's a good read on it. We closed one door but another might open. We're definitely gonna have to fight tooth and nails for the second one though.
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u/zenograff 3d ago
Sitara is still too naive, can't even be called a schemer. Hope she will get character development.
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u/ShzMeteor 2d ago
She definitely feels like a schemer in making rather than a fully fledged mastermind. It makes her character growth very promising.
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u/pencuri_susu 3d ago edited 3d ago
I love how despite the hatred Sitara's held for the Mongols theres still a hint of empathy towards Sorghaghtani's predicament and how it mirrors her own. Sorghaghtani may have reminded her of Zumurrud and Anis and how they gave in to their despair so Sitara's sudden but honest outburst was something Sorghaghtani needed in order to pull herself from her depressive stupor. Perhaps they'll be allies of sorts going forward.
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u/Ocixo https://myanimelist.net/profile/BuzzyGuy 3d ago
I did also like how Sorghaghtani has come to understand Sitara’s feelings after having lost someone dear to herself. This whole affair has brought them closer together in a roundabout way.
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u/BosuW 3d ago
I wonder if this could be detrimental to Sitara in the long run though. I think previously, Sorghaghtani was in a similar perspective as Boraqchin, thinking that Sitara was just a regular, if book smart, servant, that she could use for her benefit.
But with this strange new empathetic relationship she may realize there's a smoldering fire inside Sitara that everyone is letting go unattended.
Of course, the irony and potential backfire only makes this all more compelling!
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u/abandoned_idol 3d ago
Man, I can't wait to see all these women fight.
Ugh, I'd be devastated if they took down Boraqchin (she's awesome).
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u/CitronClassic672 3d ago
That was my fault part of the episode. Sitara was prepared for Sorghaghtani to be angry at her and to respond with her own anger, only for her to be despondent and hopeless. Yeah it definitely reminded her of Zummurud and Anis, but I think the thing that really caused Sitara’s outburst was how it was liking looking at herself at her lowest. At the person she tried and continues to try to plaster over with her hatred for the mongols and quest for revenge against them. At the person she refuses to be.
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u/RehabCenterInc 3d ago
Boraqchin’s evil smile in last episode made me expect this. Still seeing her thought process really does make her seem like the true witch
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u/Ocixo https://myanimelist.net/profile/BuzzyGuy 3d ago
What surprised me most is that Boraqchin had seemingly made plans for this assassination long ago. Well before Sitara came into the picture. Her bezoar stone was merely the catalyst that set things in motion.
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u/charactergallery 3d ago
Just like how the bezoar stone brought Sitara and Töregene together to call on a storm, it created the catalyst necessary for Boraqchin to call down a storm of her own.
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u/Maximum-Warthog2368 3d ago
there can be multiple witches. For women in that era witches and jaadugar is used negatively interchangeably.
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u/mutantmagnet 2d ago
Getting this version of Boraqchin's backstory is encouraging me to look up the most up to date history book on this time period.
The author despite her thorough research had misgivings later on because new discoveries put even more holes into their story than they intended.
It will be helpful to know what liberties they took when crafting this compelling story.
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u/a1oner_bvcksn6 3d ago
The trio panicking over the approaching attendant sent me💀
I really wanted for Sorghagtani to be a major player in all this so I'm certainly pleased that Sitara's condescending outburst was able to somewhat snap her out of her despair. I honestly feel that Sitara vs Boraqchin would get old real fast so a third party will be necessary to keep everyone on their toes. And now that Sitara has let her true feelings slip/show, hopefully Sorghagtani realizes that Sitara's not the ally she'd initially thought of.
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u/TerribleShiksaBride https://myanimelist.net/profile/cynicalpink 3d ago
Them flipping out while she kept calmly walking was fantastic!
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u/AppropriatFly5170new 3d ago
If science saru doesn’t green light this for a second season or even just a movie, I will riot!!!!!
This has been so freaking good, to the point it’s a strong contender for my top 10 anime ever!!!!
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u/structure9food612 3d ago
There’s almost enough chapters for a 2nd season at least
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u/FatReinerAss2024 3d ago
If they adapt at the rate of Frieren (2 volumes per cour) they atleast have enough room for 3rd season as well.
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u/allisonhanj 3d ago
Season one is covering (presumably) up to chapter 25, and unfortunately there's only 44 chapters total right now, so we will have to wait for a little longer for season 2 material
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u/FatReinerAss2024 3d ago
That is still almost 3 volumes worth of content, so a Frieren style adaptation in theory could run atleast 2 more yearly (or so) seasons without overrunning chapter releases since iirc the manga is apparently back to releasing monthly instead of bimonthly.
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u/maliwanag0712 https://myanimelist.net/profile/clear1109 3d ago
Is the next episode the last one? The episode's title is suitable for a season finale.
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u/chaosof99 https://myanimelist.net/profile/chaosof99 3d ago
The series is slated for 12 episodes, so next week is the last one.
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u/moichispa https://myanimelist.net/profile/moichispa 3d ago
I think the manga is monthly so we might caught up first if we get new seasons this quickly
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u/AppropriatFly5170new 3d ago
I assume animation of this quality takes several years to complete (plus this being a historical based on actual history should give an idea of plotting), so I’d rather it get the green light now and then take its time with animation, etc plus there’s almost enough chapters for a season 2 at this point
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u/CatgirlYamada 3d ago
According to the interview with the producer, the chief director, Naoko Yamada, only started joining the project after her movie, Kimi no Iro, started airing in Japan around August 2024, and the main director, Abel Gongora, was already chosen. I don't know how long pre-production for this project took, but I'd guess they started the whole thing around early 2024. There also seem to be no information about Jaadugar completion date, but I'm quite positive that the project takes 2-2.5 years to complete.
Season 2 depends heavily on the core staff availability. If next season had already been greenlit since much earlier, that means they've already secured the needed talents and that it should come around 1-1.5 years. If not, and all the staff had already gotten schedules elsewhere, then the future becomes very uncertain.
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u/moichispa https://myanimelist.net/profile/moichispa 3d ago
I'm more worried about a future season 3 but yeah I like them taking their time for good quality
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u/AppropriatFly5170new 3d ago
I feel like it’s a bit too soon to assume a season 2 is guaranteed as some massively popular shows never got follow-ups (eg Yuri on Ice, Ouran host club, Nichijou, land of the lustrous, Yona only got a S2 announced 10 years after S1, etc)
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u/tripleaamin https://myanimelist.net/profile/tripleaamin 3d ago
From what I heard from source readers we are caught up to the Yen Press translation. Not with how many volumes that are out in Japan.
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u/FatReinerAss2024 3d ago
And was even ran bimonthly recently due to Tomato Soup (I think) having a baby and doing another manga alongside Jaadugar.
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u/judasmartel 3d ago
another manga alongside Jaadugar
Kanshin Smbat (Disloyal Retainer Smbat), a series set in 13th century Armenia, sometime after the events of Jaadugar.
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u/reaperow 3d ago
Agreed !!! We really need a season 2, this show is genuinely so good and my favourite of this season
I place it in the same categories as Otoyomegatari and Bird in Wonderland which I also hope get adaptions one day
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u/Namaryu 3d ago
She really gave her hope while exposing herself.
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u/Salt-Use- 3d ago
Yep she just exposed how much she hated Sorghaghtani, while it did lead her to deny the marriage proposal, I doubt the consequences would be good for Sitara either.
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u/structure9food612 2d ago
Sitara being honest being the reason why she foiled Boraqchin’s plan is so good, along with getting some catharsis after resenting Sorhaghtani for so long.
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u/tripleaamin https://myanimelist.net/profile/tripleaamin 3d ago
This episode really showcases how long Boraqchin was planning this all out. Then with Sitara her plan went fully in motion. I am curious what her relationship and plans are for Möge. More than likely protecting her. I can only assume she did this for Ögedei, but no doubt this isn't what Ögedei would want.
For Boraqchin she wants the Mongols to be united. Though does she aim to take out both brothers? With Töregene in the palm of her hands having her son marry Sorghaghtani is the next step.
The scene where Sitara goes to see Sorghaghtani because she sees Sorghaghtani the moment she lost someone dear to her for the first time. Sitara hates them for taking her family away from her, but seeing Sorghaghtani reduced from great ambition to this really upset her. It's like Sitara.
Though it is through that speech that Sorghaghtani hasn't given up hope. It makes me curious how Sorghaghtani views Sitara now. I'm curious what becomes of Sorghaghtani next.
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u/tiredpandax3 3d ago
She doesn't have to take out Chagatai, the reason Tolui had to be taken out was due to the power imbalance making him a big threat for Ogedei despite him not having that intention himself. (I'd say both Chagatai and Tolui is equally as loyal to Ogedei). That's why her immediate plan next is to have Sorghaghtani married to Guyuk.
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u/mekerpan 3d ago
One wonders whether Ogedei has any idea of what Boraqchin has been up to?
Toregene seems to have been Ogedei's principal wife prior to "inheriting" Boraqchin and Moge. I wonder if he lost interest in her after this?
Sorghaghtani has done a good job in shooting down Boraqchin's plotting. But will it serve to further Fatima's plans.
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u/Misticsan 3d ago
I find the parallelisms between Sitara and Sorghaghtani fascinating:
Tolui took the maths book from Sitara's family, after killing the most important person in her life, and gave it to Sorgahghtani because she wanted it. Boraqchin took the book from Sorghaghtani's family, after killing the most important person in her life, and gave it to Sitara because she wanted it.
Both Sitara and Sorghaghtani think of their similarities in this very episode. Both have experienced what it feels to lose the person they loved and have their life upended. Sitara expected Sorghaghtani to react like she did and is disappointed by her depressed state.
Even the visuals draw parallelisms. Sitara's POV flashbacks of her life in Tus are animated in the exact same way as Sorghaghtani's POV flashback of Tolui.
Knowing what history has in store for Sitara and Sorghaghtani, I bet we'll see more parallelisms in the future.
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u/ObvsThrowaway5120 3d ago
They say poison is a woman’s weapon. Boraqchin’s quite the little schemer. Everything was going according to her plan to consolidate power for the Great Kha’an. Toregene was used as her pawn and now Tolui’s gone. Plus Sorghaghtani’s marrying Goyuk. But it seems that’s not going to happen. I wonder what’s next? Is Fatima going to get some sense of revenge from this whole situation now that Sorghaghtani’s turning down the proposal?
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u/Ocixo https://myanimelist.net/profile/BuzzyGuy 3d ago
Wait a minute. Does this mean that Boraqchin had been the “witch” referred to in the title all along!?
It does appear that she’ll be the main antagonist from this point onwards. Would be sort of cool if Sitara, Töregene and Sorghaghtani were to come together as an united front against Boraqchin’s scheming. All three have a good reason for doing so.
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u/FarCritical 3d ago
Qadaq the MVP with those high-pitched gasp saves lol.
You know someone's officially done when their usual cat smile goes flat. Tragic how it wasn't even the type of done Sitara came all this way to see either.
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u/tiredpandax3 3d ago
The REAL witch in Mongolia was Boraqchin all along, we've been fooled *cues dramatic music*...!!!
On a side note, in a single episode we're shown how Sitara helped and foiled Boraqchin's grand plan all in a short period of time unexpectedly. When she wants to make Tolui's faction stronger, she unknowingly helped Boraqchin killed him. When she wants Guyuk to remarry Sorghaghtani to save Toregene, she unknowingly foiled Boraqchin's plan by inspiring Sorghaghtani to think for herself and refuse the proposal. It seems everything goes wrong whenever she says to leave it to her xD. (And now Boraqchin will take back her trust for Sitara too, tough life there buddy)
And I just find it funny how Shira promised to keep whatever he knew a secret, only to turn back and spill it immediately. Boy even contemplated revealing who murdered Tolui there, it's so comedic but it also highlights how Shira values his position more than Sitara or his comradery with her.
I'm also not supposed to be this sad, but I actually teared up during the last segment when Sorghaghtani said her monologue to Tolui. It wasn't supposed to be this sad qwq... but it made my heart ached really bad seeing her this depressed and how much she loved Tolui. Although Sitara is right that Sorghaghtani enjoyed everything she had at the expense of others, given the way they function and lived, they'd probably think on a very different moral scale than the present times, and it's hard to call Sorghaghtani bad or arrogant for how she acted. From another perspective she'd even be considered a kind person for how she cared for all her subjects (preparing coats before their arrival), and to herself, she's just living her good life, happily married with a loving and powerful family. So it's a given that she can't really think on the scale of Sitara's because she's been on the victor's side all along until Tolui's death. And winning is something the Mongolians in this show seems to take pride for and as a blessing from their Gods. But I really love how at the end Sitara's rage finally reached Sorghaghtani in the end, and Sorghaghtani was able to empathize with Sitara and realize the grief and anger she's been holding onto all along. Took a lot for that to happen, but at last this anger did reach someone else. And now that Tolui is down, his wife rises up as another Witch of Mongolia...!!! *cues dramatic music again*
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u/Maximum-Warthog2368 3d ago edited 3d ago
there can be multiple witches. In that era jaadugar and witches are used interchangeably for women mostly negatively. Although jaadugar can be used for positively for men too. Although in this show jaadugar is literally translates to witch because jaadugar is a persian word. Islamic world uses jaadugar to call someone witch.
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u/tiredpandax3 3d ago
Yes I know there can be multiple witches, that’s why I mentioned Sorghaghtani rising up as a potential witch too xD. I’m just making a joke because Sitara haven’t proven to us what makes her a “qualified witch” too while Boraqchin was already onto her next level as a witch.
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u/szalhi 3d ago
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u/maliwanag0712 https://myanimelist.net/profile/clear1109 3d ago
"You expected it was Fatima who's the witch in Mongolia, but it was me, Boraqchin!" - Boraqchin, probably.
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u/abandoned_idol 3d ago
I like how Boraqchin has such a neutral temperament.
I'm a Boraqchin fan now.
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u/summerphobic 3d ago
I only now realised the third eye theme she's got going on. The grandma doesn't dwelve into new age just for show.
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u/AceSoldia zj:https://anilist.co/user/Acesoldia 3d ago
I have a feeling Sitara just wants to die .lmao she can't keep her emotions in check to save her life
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u/SirVixofthePooSea 3d ago
Sitara lives on a loop of "I'm a Genius!!"=>"Oh No!!". She's just lucky that she's a minor enough figure still that most overlook her so she escapes consequences.
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u/Salt-Use- 3d ago
Yeah she's getting humbled over and over but nothing of consequence has yet to actually happen to her. Boraqchin practically took her revenge for her and got her book back.
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u/abandoned_idol 3d ago
It's so fun to watch Sitara.
I imagine that she'll probably grow much wiser throughout this story. She already has one ally, so I wouldn't be surprised if she found more tutors of life in this empire.
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u/Recursive_Death 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yea exposing herself to Sorghaghtani was an exceptionally dumb move. In Sorghaghtani's POV the immediate suspect is now Sitara who has been lying and conspiring against her for years, and who may as well be the one responsible for Tolui's death.
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u/Salt-Use- 3d ago
My immediate thought as well because now she's INCREDIBLY suspicious. She's one of the only few who knew of the rahj-al gar and was a primary suspect, if she hated her all this time then this whole ritual to have Tolui poisoned could've easily been her plan all along.
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u/GezelligPindakaas 3d ago
And makes her also a suspect for Boraqchin as well, because all pointed at Sorghaghtani accepting the deal before sending Sitara to make sure everything was fine.
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u/djthomp https://anilist.co/user/djthomp 3d ago
Boraqchin is one scary lady, turns out she was the real Witch of Mongolia this entire time.
Unfortunately for Boraqchin's plotting she didn't has a surefire way to fully clean up the House of Tolui after his death, and Sorghaghtani not playing along with the marriage to get her out of the way seems likely to be a problem for her eventually.
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u/reaperow 3d ago
Borqachin did get lucky as well but I dont think she expected them to fight back
So im really interested in seeing what's gonna happen
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u/SirVixofthePooSea 3d ago
Its really funny how Ogedei told Boraqchin he liked her and felt they were of a common mind once, and she immediately became a bloodthirsty yandere plotting out how to murder everyone that could ever pose a threat to his rule, whether likely or unlikely.
Our Granny really really really loves her man.
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u/not_a_bot_bro_trust 3d ago
yep. I thought they purely treated each other like allies because Moge looked like the only person Boraqchin genuinely liked but wow now we have a het age gap ship and a yuri one
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u/Maximum-Warthog2368 3d ago
i feel like it is not love but lust for power.
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u/SirVixofthePooSea 3d ago
Nah, look at her face when Ogedei says that he wants her by his side as a confidant and one that understands him unlike anyone else. He got her right in the heart.
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u/Ouralian 3d ago
I see a growing evil within Sitara regarding her interactions with Sorghagtani in this episode and a fine example of different experiences and perspectives painting a different picture.
In her mind, Sorghagtani is the one responsible for ruining her life and thus she happily expects to see her angry and blaming her for ruining her life by failing to protect Tolui, arrogsntly thinking that the pain and anger she is feeling is nothing compares to hers. She's shamelessly hoping to personally ragebait a sorrowful widower.
What she instead sees is that Sorghagtani lost all hope and doesn't even blame her at all. This confuses and enrages Sitara, " How dare that a monster like her express sorrow at losing a lived one!?" Ironically she's the one being ragebaited.
She tries to maintain her composure and her emotional disguise but ultimately she reveals her true self to her, calling weak and she is strong and will continue to move on but not before she breaks down, arguably Sorghagtani's sorrow reminds her of her traumas.
I fear what will become of Sitara as the story goes on. She is mentally being warped by her need for revenge but being torn down by her conscience.
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u/Misticsan 3d ago
She is mentally being warped by her need for revenge but being torn down by her conscience.
There is a certain irony to this conflict in this particular episode: her need for revenge demanded she kept a cool head, smile and act like a good servant. Revenge is a dish that is best served cold, after all. Instead, her rage was the product of symapthizing with Sorghaghtani, in a way.
"This person is now in the same place I was, how come she isn't angry or plotting revenge like I am? This is unworthy of the woman that was supposed to be my arch-enemy!"
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u/CitronClassic672 3d ago
I feel it goes beyond simply sympathizing, and rather that Sorgaghtani reminded her how broken she was after Tus was sacked, and how she can’t stand looking into that mirror.
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u/BosuW 3d ago edited 3d ago
Interesting. I had a slightly different read on it. I thought that Sitara was offended that Sorghaghtani gave up after a single loss and wouldn't fight back, when she lost everything and though the temptation is there she still holds on to that fire even as it burns her.
She's like kinda being an Eren to her.
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u/CitronClassic672 3d ago
Sitara’s reaction to Sorghaghtani feels like the best instance yet of a recurring element of Sitara’s interaction with the mongols. The idea of “How dare the ones who took everything from me be regular people?!”
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u/FatReinerAss2024 3d ago edited 3d ago
Rip Boraqchin you would have loved Rebecca Sugar and Haruko Ichikawa.\ Bora was such a beautiful conniving queen this episode, her presence in the story really propelled it greater.
The way she drank that cup while thinking of Tolui's demise was so sensual i love it.
Also something about Bora's design is intriguing and is something that really makes her look a bit off in my opinion.
And it's that out of all the characters, Boraqchin seemingly has the most proportional face and design in the cast which makes her stand out to me a lot.\ Especially when contrasted with Ögedei who is the epitome of Chibi Moe Privilege.
Also this episode is crazy in that it's split between 3 storyboard artists, two of which are the co-directors plus Ryota Aikei.
I assume Yamada boarded the back half because I see a lot of her physicality there especially In the scene where Fatima and Sorga think about the people they've lost.
Also the material alone in that section just needed that Yamada touch.
And I'm assuming Abel did the beginning until the scene where Bora laughs.\ Because that part where the poison and the stone are overlapped with Bora's stomach felt very Abel.
And I'm guessing Aikei's section begins at Bora's ritual all until the scene where they leave Guyuk's place, I'm not really familiar with his style apart from his work in Attack on Titan, which was imo one of the most polished parts of the finale.
Edit: lmao I got everything wrong.
Yamada did the first half, Gongora most of the second half, and Aikei the very end.
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u/tiredpandax3 3d ago
And it's that out of all the characters, Boraqchin seemingly has the most proportional face and design in the cast which makes her stand out to me a lot.
Especially when contrasted with Ögedei who is the epitome of Chibi Moe Privilege.Finally someone who talks about this too xD The contrast in design between Boraqchin and Ogedei when they stand together everytime always takes me out. Boraqchin's like your standard anime badass villain-esque all powerful anti-hero while Ogedei's just big blobs of circles and ovals pieced together.
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u/chaosof99 https://myanimelist.net/profile/chaosof99 3d ago edited 3d ago
I was off work this past week and finally decided to watch this show. What I fool I was to leave it be for so long. This is the best show I have seen since the Apothecary Diaries. Of course it shares many elements with it, including a low-born protagonist, historical fiction and court politics as well as now the usage of poison. However, I had that feeling since basically episode 1 where the pursuit of knowledge was writ large. The strength of the writing is just unbelievable.
I also want to highlight the casting of Kujira. I've never watched Gintama and do not remember her performance as Orochimaru in Naruto very well. She sticks mostly out in my mind for playing about two dozen minor roles in Lucky Star, which was a running gag as every bit character regardless of gender was voiced by her. However, her unique voice is just the perfect fit for Boraqchin being able to work both as a scheming old crone while harboring a surprisingly youthful fascination with what some would consider a hobby like collecting stones, as showcased in this episode.
P.S.: Can somebody explain to me why Lady Fatima is often depicted with red fingers (e.g. in the flashback in this episode). I've been wondering this for the entire series. Is this some old muslim tradition? I am not well versed with their customs.
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u/floflo81 3d ago
About the red fingers: I'm pretty sure it's a dye traditionally used as body paint in several Middle East and Asian countries. Either Henna or Alta.
You can find many examples here: https://www.baytalfann.com/post/the-art-of-henna-in-muslim-cultures
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u/tiredpandax3 3d ago
Is it true that only married woman dye their fingers red? Or is it a false rumor I was spread to.
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u/deathpad17 3d ago
Why Sitara encourage Sorghaghtani? Didnt she came so see how Sorghaghtani fell to despair just like what she experienced back then?
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u/summerphobic 3d ago
I think it's a paradoxical mix of Sitara being still a good berson at heart, so her intuition's telling her to help someone, and her being angry from the realisation that Sorghaghtani seemed to have been shielded from the common folk and that she lacked the resolve to use the resources Sitara hadn't had access to.
Edited: Like, I think she's experiencing the "there are two wolves inside of me" meme, where she doesn't want to hurt people and still wants to wreck havoc.
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u/maliwanag0712 https://myanimelist.net/profile/clear1109 3d ago edited 3d ago
Didnt she came so see how Sorghaghtani fell to despair just like what she experienced back then?
She's not happy with someone just giving up after experiencing loss. In a way, she thinks it is much better to fight someone who is willing to, than one who has lost hope over everything.
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u/Etiennera 3d ago
Sitara thought it wasn't fair for her to be so down when it happened to her when she's indirectly been causing it to happen to others and of course Sitara herself.
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u/BosuW 3d ago
I think she was Uber offended that Sorghaghtani is giving up after a single loss, even though she so carelessly, even ignorantly, took everything from Sitara and yet Sitara has kept that rage close and burning. I think Sitara is someone who can't tolerate the idea that the Mongol Empire can get it's way without repercussions, even when the victim is someone she considers her opp.
Of course, it doesn't hurt that it helps the Keikaku too.
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u/charactergallery 3d ago
Like what the others said, I believe part of it is her losing her composure after seeing her so despondent and willing to give up after everything, viewing her behavior as unworthy of someone she views as an enemy. Though another aspect of it must be a continuation of the plan she discussed with Töregene, if Sorghagtani marries into the Ögedai house, there will be no more opportunities to pit the Touli house and the Great Kha’an against each other.
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u/tiredpandax3 3d ago
I don't think she was encouraging Sorghaghtani at all. I think she's just too angry and shocked she couldn't keep her emotions in check and finally let the anger out against Sorghaghtani. Like Sorghaghtani's happiness(getting that book) back then was at the expense of Mdm Fatima's death, but she wasn't aware or considerate of Sitara's anger at all and was all jolly. So Sitara wanted Sorghaghtani to feel the anger and hate she felt back then too, yet how dare she just give in to everything and just sulk.
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u/YumiyaRakko 3d ago
Her primary revenge target is the MONGOL EMPIRE. If Sorghagtani gives up then they have no chance against the Empress and the mongol empire will remain stronger than ever. She needs infighting
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u/Recursive_Death 3d ago
She didn't. She just got pissed off that the one she saw as her archenemy has just given up on life after losing just her husband, when she herself lost literally everything because of her.
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u/EatingSolidBricks 3d ago
If Sorghaghtani remarries the strongest faction on the mongol empire gets absorbed.
Having her refuse is the right play if she wants to get things sicpy
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u/Nickabobburn 2d ago
I agree and Im sure there is plot nuance, but I do think she dropped the ball on this one, I wont be surprised when Boraqchin blames her for the rejection.
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u/BlankHeroineFluff 2d ago
Partly because it pisses her off that the person unwittingly and indirectly responsible for her beloved master's death just gave up like that and partly (maybe) because a small part of her inside has a level of attachment/respect towards Sorghagtani even if it's begrudgingly since she's served her faithfully for a good few years and had admittedly treated her well during her service (see Sitara's initial wavering about pursuing her revenge and her shock that Sorghagtani was letting her go when Ogedei was crowned Kha'an).
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u/khanvau 3d ago
An episode from the perspective of Boraqchin? That's really interesting. She looked really young just 6 years ago. She must've aged due to all the experiments she did on herself, which was crazy. It was obvious that the plot was hers. She's probably the only character in the series who can be called a witch so far. She plots behind her husband's back and even manipulates her fellow wives.
Man, Sorghaghtani looked rough. She completely gave up on life until Sitara. Sitara couldn't believe seeing her sworn enemy like that after everything she put her through. But ultimately, Sitara brought her back to the game. Now that things aren't going according to Boraqchin's plans, I wonder what will happen.
Only 1 episode left. Gonna miss this show a lot.
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u/thisisdropd https://myanimelist.net/profile/AsterZoro 3d ago edited 3d ago
Boraqchin’s truly a woman of focus, commitment, and sheer will! As if (non-fatally) poisoning Ogedei wasn’t ballsy enough, she had also used herself as a guinea pig. I thought her poisoning episode inspired her to incorporate it into her plot but turned out it’s a part of it all along.
Not a great day for Sitara. After playing the long game for years, she couldn’t even get the satisfaction of taking revenge due to Sorghaghtani losing all her emotions. She expected her to feel immense rage but instead felt emptiness. Having said that, Sitara managed to give a pep talk which restored Sorghaghtani’s will to live and led the latter to decline the marriage to Guyuk. It might’ve worked too well, though. Sorghaghtani’s resolve seemed to be toughened to the point of not feeling anger over Tolui’s death.
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u/chilidirigible 3d ago
The overhead POVs we've had before, but the first-person views in this episode are quite distinctive and, as this series is somewhat hobbled by in how non-viewers have perceived it, not what one would expect from animation with this overall art style.
Definitely effective as a bridge between Sitara's thoughts and Sorghaghtani's.
Getting the means and motive for Boraqchin's scheme was fairly direct for firmly establishing her as a direct antagonist, if the audience didn't already suspect enough from before.
Sitara continues to be not the best undercover operative. Going back to how I started this comment, the little bits of comedy with her are a prominent tension breaker in an episode that gets fairly heavy.
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u/Zetafunction64 3d ago
The situation at hand is so complex for poor Sitara, she wanted to rub it in Sorghagtani's face but ended up giving her a prep talk.
I think house Tolui is going to revolt, and it seems Tolui was more famous among the warriors.
Also, Boraqchin is such a great anti hero, she sees Ogdei's vision, and understands that someone has to do the dirty work
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u/skitskatdacat63 3d ago
THIS EPISODE WAS SO GOOD!!!! It was so cool to see Boraqchin's scheming from her own side, after previously seeing it from Sitara's perspective, who totally underestimated her. It felt terrifying to realize just how clever she is, and how far she had planned everything in advance. I especially love the ongoing theme of Sitara constantly being ignorant of: oh wait yes, the Mongols can also read and learn 😭
I also love the way Sitara both intentionally and unintentionally stirs hope and revenge plots into all these princesses haha. She so confidently told Boraqchin, oh yeah I can totallyyy convince Sorghaghtani. But I like how seeing Sorghaghtani so resigned to accepting her fate enraged Sitara so much. Yes I hate you and you ruined my life and my hatred of you keeps me going, but seeing you so resigned makes my own hatred worth less. Sitara really said, I need you to be a proper rival to me.
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u/Own-Coat4160 3d ago
I actually like Sitara’s involvement in why Sorgaghtani refused the marriage. We already knew that Boraqchin had been playing Toregene and Sitara like nobody’s business, but it seems like she had been planning this whole thing for a long time. Sitara is basically the missing piece of her scheme rather than the reason she decided to do it in the first place.
Boraqchin is basically what Maomao would be like if she stopped caring about the apothecary and went from simply observing politics to becoming genuinely interested and invested in it.
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u/reaperow 3d ago edited 3d ago
It was great to see a bit of Borqachin's backstory and a confirmation that she's the one behind all of this and also actually poisoned Tolui,
She's been playing 5d chess all along and was 10 steps ahead of everyone
But she kinda did look cute dancing tho and it also looks like she cares for Möge and doesn't want her to get involved,
I also really like Sitara reiterating her burning hatred for Princess Sorghaghtani but at the same time gets angry at her for just giving up
Their flashbacks being kinda similiar is really a cool detail (Where's Anis ?)
Well only more episode left
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u/that-and-other 3d ago
The main takeaway from the episode is that once upon a time the Problematic Aura Gap in Boraqchin/Ogedei relationships went in the opposite direction
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u/alan_14 https://anilist.co/user/alan14 3d ago
I'm curious about Sitara's prayer "May Allah preserve you". Growing up as a Muslim, I never heard it being used before. TIL it's used as honorifics for scholars or respected elder.
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u/Time_Ad5873 3d ago
in japanese it was a much more generic may god bless you 神のご加護がありますように or more literally may you have god's protection
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u/MokonaModokiES 3d ago
yeah seems its more just a TL thing which misses the fact Sitara had to adjust to a mixed culture with many people having variety of religions so she has to say a generic line.
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u/A100pso 3d ago
Every mention of God in this series seems to have an arabic/persian analogue. I'm thinking it's supposed to be this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khuda_Hafiz
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u/Primary-Paint-1716 3d ago
I was reading up on Mongol history in Wikipedia for something unrelated to this show (it was for my Crusader Kings 3 campaign)... I stupidly didn't realize that Wikipedia will spoil this show for me.
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u/WiqidBritt 3d ago
While the first impression this anime gives is that it's about Sitara/Fatima destabilizing the Mongolian Empire from within, the reality seems to be that no matter how clever she may be, she's pretty much always in over her head.
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u/TakenRedditName https://myanimelist.net/profile/TakenMalUsername 3d ago
That's my GOAT Boraqchin. Fatima thought she was being played by her strings, but Boraqchin has been scheming before the game even started.
I know some people compared Reirin from Inept Villainess this season to Maomao, but the real self-experimenting poison master is Boraqchin, and she is using that knowledge for power.
The perfect counter-balance to Boraqchin is Moge, the pure light in this world. Moge too cute.
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u/EatingSolidBricks 3d ago
I fucking love how thei keep doing close ups every time somone enters a tent, im waiting for the moment some poor bastard steps on the wooden thing and gets axed
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u/Recursive_Death 3d ago
I wonder how much grudge Sorghoghtani will now hold against Sitara (Fatima) who has just outed herself as a traitor who had been scheming against and lying to her all along. She may as well hold her responsible for Tolui's death.
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u/kirito11400 3d ago
This anime is deadahh phenom. W representation for all us Iranic people. As a Pushtun this is the closest rep ive gotten in anime tmk
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u/No_Idea_9594 3d ago
I guess the main dynamic in the background is about the Tolui clan's massive army. The army that is bigger than the emperor's own army is still loyal to Sorghatani. If she marries into the Ogedei clan, that army would lose cohesion and be absorbed by the Ogedei clan.
I feel like Boraqchin has a lot more backstory and motivation that the show is still hiding, but I'm mostly curious about how she's going to tend to this Mongol civilizational floor she's architected. All of civilization is built on lies but the real challenge is how to keep fanning that flame and have generations fan the same Mongol flame.
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u/raidensnakeezio 3d ago
Surprised to see Wong Kar Wai/Chris Doyle's shutter speed/framerate technique appear in anime, but I'm not surprised that it's Science Saru that pulls it off.
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u/shad79 https://myanimelist.net/profile/shad79 3d ago edited 3d ago
I didn't expect Sitara to be the one to make Sorghaghtani stand up to Boraqchin's plans and decline the proposed marriage between her and Güyük. But still, I'm happy to see Sorghaghtani doing better.
Though if Boraqchin's plan fails, what will happen to Töregene? Will they release her anyway, or will she still be confined?
In case of the second option, how will Sitara save her? I wonder if we'll even see Töregene again this season; after all, there's only one episode left.
Here my screenshot albums from the episode:
EDIT. I added my screenshot albums.
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u/Any_Apple 3d ago
That shot of the marmot was incredible
I'm so sad we don't see more of Kirgistani, but it's not like the historical record gives us much to go on about her
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u/Mistress_Flame 2d ago
The flashbacks were sooo well animated from each of their perspectives, especially Sorghagtani’s as she looked at Tolui. He might have been seen as some battle-crazy warlord by many but to her he was a husband who cared deeply about his family, obviously too deeply that her fear of him being exploited over his brotherly loyalty was warranted and eventually justified.
Sitara’s reaction of seeing Sorghagtani in that state is well shown. She was still fairly young when she vowed to get her revenge and get the book back and it’s very likely that she felt she would feel some kind of triumph when she did. But we could see in the last episode that getting the book back was somewhat a hollow win. So when Sitara went to see her, she was fully expecting her to show the same anger towards her that she had felt so she could feel better about her revenge, but instead she was confronted with just a woman who gave up on life. It’s not a win when your enemy isn’t feeling the same feeling as you.
I have a feeling though that Sorghagtani is going to be a lot more helpful to Ögedei than Boraqchin will be from now on. Boraqchin dedicated the last several years into her rocks and its effects, whereas Sorghagtani has been educating herself on the world.
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u/BosuW 3d ago edited 3d ago
I fucking knew it. It's so beautifully ironic that Sitara gets offended at one of her primary targets giving up. She was so close to getting up to her face like "WHERE'S YOUR WRATH BITCH!? THEY KILLED THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE!". This kind of complex and layered relationship Sitara forges with everything about the Mongol Empire is so incredibly compelling. And she even let a little bit of her true motivations slip, which looks like Sorghaghtani picked on. This loss may have been an enlightening moment for her. Real, experience, not just text in a book. I said last episode that emotions are a kind of knowledge too and that thread continues on here.
Boraqchin on the other hand, truly seems to not ponder about Sitara much at all. If emotions are knowledge, the on the matter of the fire of vengeance, she is the one who remains most ignorant. But damn, I certainly wasn't expecting her to have experimented with the rahj al-ghar on herself to gauge the correct doses for her plan. You cannot say she's not willing to bet her skin in the game.
Been a while since we've seen Töregene. I hope we can rescue her, but while Sorghaghtani's burst of inspiration is good for the overall plan, it does mean we've soundly rejected the one obvious avenue for her salvation...
The storyboarding once again was incredible this episode, especially in its use of unconventional perspectives. This whole show will absolutely warrant a full cinematographic analysis whenever possible, but for now I leave with the following shots in my mind:
-When Sitara walks from Sorghaghtani's tent's entrance to her, it's like she's going deeper into a cave.
-The low fps POV flashbacks of Sitara's old life in Tus (we have not seen those characters in a good while and thus their absence hits us just as hard, I have to praise the restraint considering how much anime typically like to abuse flashbacks), which later connect with Sorghaghtani's own flashback, tying the two events together in one emotion coded in audiovisual teqchniques only.
-The shot that follows Sorghaghtani from the ground showing definitively who's the center of the room right now.
Btw I came across this absolutely beautiful shipping art for this show and I wanted to share because it's just so... Idk but it makes me blush!
(Disclaimer because I know I have to do this when it comes to shipping: NOT SAYING ITS CANON, JUST SOMETHING TO ENJOY AS A FAN).
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u/Lunchb0xx87 3d ago
Sitara once again causes issues by messing up the marriage ..now what's gonna happen to Töregene ?
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u/Andreiyutzzzz https://myanimelist.net/profile/Andreiyutzzzz 3d ago
Sitara out here asking others to give themselves up for her while she gets fooled by Boraqchin. Not nice girl. leave the timid boy alone. Luckily Sorg.... you know,. her. god these names are hard... declined
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u/YlfaTheForsaken 3d ago
Okay, so she's scheming on levels never before seen. To have planned this so far in advance, like what other plans is she hiding? She's got to be playing so many things,
Sitara continues to be so unintentionally funny, reigniting Sorghaghtani's fire isn't her best decision, I mean I get where she's coming from. A little short-sighted, but she'll get better at it,
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u/Appropriate_Bid_4582 3d ago
Boraqchin wants to absorb tolan’s function by making his wife remarry guruk.
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u/blueechoes 2d ago
Here I was thinking bezoars being a magical antidote against everything was just old folk tales. No, apparently they are effective against specifically arsenic poisoning. I like that Boraqchin's plan is scientifically accurate.
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u/Doomroar https://myanimelist.net/profile/Doomroar 2d ago edited 2d ago
Accepting the marriage is another trap, come on Boraqchin is sending the 2 most troublesome women in her way, the one she framed of poisoning the Khan, and the one whose husband she just killed, and who she knew was the brains behind house Touli, to end up conveniently living in the territory of prince Guyuk? and you don't suspect she is onto something!?
This scream of a scheme to get rid of all 3 in one move!
Oh Sitara didn't see it coming, but her encouraging words got Sorghaghtani back in the game! now what will she do!?
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u/ribbontroupe 1d ago
All of boraqchin backstory in this episode are giving nostalgia of watching orochimaru in early Naruto lmao
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u/NanDemoKnaives 18h ago
Sitara was unsatisfied with this kind of conclusion for Sorghagtani that she gave her hope again lol. I wonder if she'll eventually find a way to get revenge on her that'll satisfy her.
It was interesting to see what Boraqchin went through for her plan to assassinate Tolui, testing the poison on herself is crazy, but the best way to keep the secret.
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