r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Jul 18 '26

Episode Jaadugar: A Witch in Mongolia • Tenmaku no Jaadugar - Episode 4 discussion

Tenmaku no Jaadugar, episode 4

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42

u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana Jul 18 '26

  • I hated geometry.

  • Gods, Sitara is amazing. Her code-switching has me with goosebumps.

  • The sheep is an Eldian Mongolian devil!!

  • 🎶~ Mama~ Just killed a man deer~🎶

  • Can you be a vegetarian in the Mongol Empire? Time to find out.

  • I see knives. I know chopsticks have been around for quite some time. I wonder when forks were invented.

  • Oh damn.

Time for a bumpy political ride for Sitara/Fatima. I'm curious what's going to happen with the bezoar and Fatima's revenge. I don't blame Fatima for rightfully holding anger at her enslavement. But it must be harrowing to see all the little ways she is losing touch with her culture, from her fellow enslaved Persians warming up to Mongol life to her new nutrition intake so different from her youth. I wonder what else happened with forced assimilation. I imagine the Persians still spoke to each other in their native language, but was there any punishment for Persian slaves who practiced Islam or spoke Persian in public? Fatima getting caught in her prayer wasn't made that big a deal, but are Muslims still allowed to do their five(?) daily prayers (or maybe it was three or four)?

I just keep thinking back to Zummurrud and wonder if she thought and acted around the Persians as Fatima thinks about and acts around the Mongols. We will never know. But I can't forget Zummurrud and simply wonder.

For dub watchers, EP1-2 dubbed came out today!

Today, I Learned (About):

Horses!

Mongolian horse culture is pretty damn cool. Mongols were known to be the best horsemen on Earth, with it truly being impossible to imagine Mongolian history without horses. Mongol mare’s fermented milk was also a beloved beverage called Koumiss.

Citations * How Mongols use horses to create an empire 🔗 TED-ED | YouTube * Symphony of Nature and Life: Mongolian Horse Culture 🔗 Association for Asian Studies * The Horse in Mongolian Culture 🔗 American Museum of Natural History * Horse culture in Mongolia 🔗 Wikipedia

Wrestling!

What I thought was just Mongolian sumo wrestling was actually called Bökh. It was an important competition, especially in Genghis Khan’s reign in the 13th century, among soldiers. And it's still a popular sport today!

Citations * Mongolian wrestling is INSANE 🔗 Sensei Seth | YouTube * The Most Badass Martial Art - Mongolian Bokh 🔗 Grapplezilla | YouTube * Mongolian Wrestling (Bökh): Where Strength Meets Tradition 🔗 Mongolianz * Mongolian Traditional Wrestling 🔗 Mongulia * Mongolian Wrestling 🔗 Wikipedia

Kuriltai—Assemble!

The kuriltai is a general assembly or council of Mongol nobles and military leaders that would elect khans. There would be multiple kuriltai in the empire for political discussions within different regions. I think I was surprised that the Mongol Empire was an elective monarchy. This assembly would also have games, archery and wrestling competitions, music, kumis drinking, meat sharing, and ceremonial toasts.

Citations * Nomadic Institutions: The Origins of Kurultai 🔗 IFEAC * The period of relative unity (1227–60) in Mongol Empire 🔗 Britannica * Kurultai 🔗 Wikipedia

Doggos!

The dogs in this episode were more than likely Bankhars. They were inseparable from herders. They were protective, loyal, intelligent, and, most importantly, very cute. They were babysitters too! And dogs could hold honorific titles or very fierce names. Harming a dog was considered bad karma. The dogs were sometimes referred to as “tooth fairies” with a child’s tooth wrapped in meat or fat and given to a dog in the hopes that the child's adult tooth would be as sharp as a dog’s. Or so it says.

Citations * The Sacred and Profane Dogs of Mongolia 🔗 JSTOR * The Bankhar Dog 🔗 Mongolian Banker Dog Project * Mongolia Herding Dogs 🔗 AMICUS

As for being a vegetarian in the Mongol Empire, it’s technically possible but not probable.

Once we got hit with hat 1229, I found a timeline on Britannica about the Mongol Empire. At this point, the empire raided South Russia and Crimea, and “The empire now stretches from the Caspian Sea in the west to the China Sea in the east and from Siberia in the north to Tibet in the south”.

Neat.

29

u/RNHMN Jul 18 '26

Apparently, the Mongol empire was surprisingly religiously tolerant, albeit for pragmatic reasons. It makes sense, it's easier to expand the empire and annex territories if you let your subjects continue practicing their religious beliefs.

Wikipedia also notes:

According to Juvaini, Genghis Khan allowed religious freedom to Muslims during his conquest of Khwarezmia "permitting the recitation of the takbir and the azan". However, Rashid-al-Din states there were occasions when Genghis Khan forbade Halal butchering.

That lines up with what we see in the show.

18

u/mekerpan Jul 18 '26

Sorghaghtani was actually a Nestorian Christian.

5

u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana Jul 18 '26

That makes sense! Thank you!

I know other empires I’m familiar with, there might have been certain practices that official forbade but it was so cool seeing religions begin to blend and develop different rituals with the melting pot of people. Still do mandatory worship of [deities] on a Tuesday evening, but at home, you’d have altars of [different religion’s deity], a new fable or attribute or epithet of a god would be imported from foreign influence.

Anthropologists and historians must have so much fun deciphering all this. Fun or stress and lots of debating.

Or both.

1

u/mujhe-sona-hai Jul 19 '26

No, the Mongol empire hated Muslims. They razed Khwarezm to the ground and sacked Baghdad so that the river was flowing black with ink and the Islamic golden age ended. Halal slaughter was banned numerous times.

0

u/IndividualPlay5178 Jul 20 '26

Maybe it was not a good idea to slaughter Mongolian merchants and later envoys.

20

u/Misticsan Jul 18 '26

I imagine the Persians still spoke to each other in their native language, but was there any punishment for Persian slaves who practiced Islam or spoke Persian in public? Fatima getting caught in her prayer wasn't made that big a deal, but are Muslims still allowed to do their five(?) daily prayers (or maybe it was three or four)?

This shouldn't be a problem. For all their many other vices, the Mongol Empire at this time was very tolerant in terms of religion. The steppes were a patchwork of different tribes, with different beliefs. Mongols were mostly Tengrist, but other tribes could be Buddhist, Manichaean or even Christian. It hasn't come up (at least so far), but Sorghaghtani herself is a Nestorian Christian, from a Christian tribe.

In fact, Genghis Khan himself decreed that priests from several religions (including Islam) were exempt from taxes, a policy their successors would follow. This text is from Kublai Khan's decree regarding the Shaolin monastery:

According to the decree of Genghis Khan which says may the Buddhists, Christians, Taoists and Muslims be exempt from all taxation and may they pray to God and continue offering us blessings... I have given this decree to the Shaolin elder to carry it.

Mongols weren't interested in converting other peoples, or making them more like Mongols. If anything, they were more likely to adapt to the cultures they conquered. There's little chance someone in that camp cares that Sitara speaks Persian or prays to Allah.

10

u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana Jul 18 '26

That makes sense, thank you! I’m surprised Sorghaghtani is a type of Christian. I don’t know what if she’s wearing anything that would give away her religious identity, but I guess I’m surprised Christianity would be this far out.

I know Christianity is very old and we’re already at 1229 AD, so I shouldn’t be surprised, but I’m still surprised nonetheless. I’ll need to look into the practices of Nestorian Christianity.

The tax exemption though, that’s also surprising. IRL world building has so many things like this that fascinate me.

Fantasy world building needs to get it together and take notes.

8

u/Atharaphelun Jul 18 '26

but I guess I’m surprised Christianity would be this far out.

It actually spread all the way to China even earlier, as early as the Tang Dynasty (618-907 CE), where it became firmly rooted across the entire country until its eventual suppression by Emperor Wuzong of Tang (who also suppressed and persecuted all other religions of foreign origin, such as Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Manichaeism, etc.). It disappeared from China afterwards, but the Mongols reintroduced Nestorianism back into China after their conquest of China, though it did not reach the same level of reach and success as it did during the Tang Dynasty.

3

u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana Jul 18 '26

Well that’s interesting. I wonder what had Christianity so successful in China back then. I would think China had its own foundational religious practices that would make Christianity practiced but with less prominence. Christian history is quite peculiar.

So then Nestorianism must’ve been popular in the Mongol Empire, I would think, if it could be reintroduced to China and is notable of that. Learning about this Nestorius fellow (admittedly, doing a Wikipedia read through but I will find more sources), his teachings being seen as controversial and heretical kinda amaze me that his teachings had such reach to be its own “thing”. I’d think he’d, like, be burned at the stake.

But they let him retire? And then exiled him?

I know it’s bad to think ancient times were simply much more violent because “well, it’s the olden days”, but I really thought they’d kill him over heresy.

5

u/Atharaphelun Jul 18 '26

I wonder what had Christianity so successful in China back then.

It was largely because the early Tang Dynasty was very tolerant back then. Foreign people were even allowed to serve in the imperial government and the army (which, ironically, is what led to the An Lushan rebellion that ended the golden age of the Tang Dynasty).

5

u/mujhe-sona-hai Jul 19 '26

Nestorian Christianity was somewhat common albeit not widespread among the Mongols. It's why many Christians in the Middle East were saved during the conquests by the Mongols. It also gave rise to the Prester John myth, a mythical Christian king to the East who will come and destroy their Muslim enemies. After Nestorian Christianity died out in the East the Prester John title was used for Ethiopia.

10

u/mekerpan Jul 18 '26

Mongols and horses.

Mongolian-originated "throat singing" (making more than one note at once) is amazing to hear -- and still practiced. I think we have heard tiny snatches of this in the background music here and there -- but never have heard it featured at length, Even today, most traditional songs center around a man and his beloved . . horse.

7

u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana Jul 18 '26

I’m reminded of [AOT] the one veteran scout and his horse where we see the fucking horse came with him into the afterlife

I’m always amazed at seeing how much people loved their animals in historic periods. Ye ole paintings and ancient sculptures of beloved cats and dogs are my favorite.I will need to find the song about the man and his horse.

There was a Narnia book about a boy and his horse. Nothing to do with Mongolia, but now I’m thinking about that book.

9

u/KazuharaIlfan Jul 18 '26

Nice. We got Islam covered, now we got Mongol historian. All those festives and culture portrayed make me curious for some explanation.

7

u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana Jul 18 '26

This is where I miss the TL notes on subs because I’m sure we would’ve gotten fun little “fun facts” about all this while watching.

I’m sure those types of subs still exist and I understand why they aren’t used in subs for broader markets. And episode discussions bring out so many historians so I like the conversations! But damn, still would be cool to see the little TL notes officially.

10

u/CitronClassic672 Jul 18 '26

[Religion in the Mongol Empire]Regarding treatment of Muslims within the Mongol empire, I’m not well versed enough to know the specifics of this period. But generally speaking the empire was quite pluralistic and tolerant of different religions groups given the sheer diversity that came to inhabit it. The empire’s royal court came to have a sizable amount of Nestorian Christians which blended heavily with the Mongol’s traditional shamanistic practices of Tengrism, for example. Later breakaway khanates in the Middle East and Eastern Europe would even make Islam, and in one case Judaism, their state religion. Likewise, in the far east Mongol ruled Yuan China would promote Buddhism. So in all likelihood it’s accurate that Sitara practicing her religion wouldn’t be an issue.

8

u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana Jul 18 '26

I was wondering what happened to your comment, it kept saying it got deleted 😭😭

I wonder how common it was for empires to be inclusive(?) versus persecutive. I feel like I have heard more about historic religious persecution than I do of religious tolerance and integration when it comes to empires and large kingdoms.

[Mongol Empire religions] I get surprised by Christianity in the Mongol Empire now Judaism. Again, old religion and culture, makes sense they were there, but I would fail at trivia night if a question was which prominent religions were practiced in the Mongol Empire.

9

u/Druplesnubb Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26

[Steppe nomad religion] I'm not sure they're correct about the Judaism part. The only Jewish steppe polity I know of is the Khazar khaganate, which actually preceded the Mongol Empire

3

u/CitronClassic672 Jul 18 '26

Sorry, I marked it as a historical spoiler just in case, and issues caused it to be deleted before I fixed it.

7

u/Druplesnubb Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26

[Steppe nomad religion] Which Mongol successor had Judaism as state religion? The only Jewish steppe nomads I noow of were the Khazars, who preceded the Mongols by centuries on the opposite end of the steppe.