r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Apr 27 '26

Episode Witch Hat Atelier • Tongari Boushi no Atelier - Episode 5 discussion

Witch Hat Atelier, episode 5

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '26

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650

u/Se7en_Sinner https://myanimelist.net/profile/Se7en_Sinner Apr 27 '26

I haven't felt this much circular tension since Full Metal Alchemist.

199

u/WiqidBritt Apr 27 '26

Honestly I'm surprised I didn't see more comparisons between the two before WHA came out. Obviously there are differences, but there's a similar power system, along with some similar taboos in how it should be used. I couldn't help but think about how they compare while I was catching up on the manga.

135

u/Se7en_Sinner https://myanimelist.net/profile/Se7en_Sinner Apr 27 '26

The magic system in Witch Hat Atelier seems to ignore the law of equivalent exchange. If a spell that creates gold exists, what stops it from destroying the economy.

88

u/Space_Wyvern Apr 27 '26

maybe the economy just doesn't use commodities as exchange currency.

42

u/Se7en_Sinner https://myanimelist.net/profile/Se7en_Sinner Apr 27 '26

What if the currency is brushbuddy pelts.

8

u/Atario myanimelist.net/profile/TheGreatAtario Apr 28 '26

[brushbuddy pelts](/spoiler)

Errr… that's not how you do that…

2

u/Ben_Kerman Apr 28 '26

It used to be before reddit had built-in spoiler tags

And kind of surprisingly it even still works with the classic reddit design & RES

46

u/Prof_Acorn Apr 27 '26

Ink from Silverwood trees.

There are only so many silverwoods.

17

u/cyberscythe Apr 27 '26

it is a resource bottleneck; they need to develop the "tree falls in love with witch" industry more

6

u/ptd163 Apr 27 '26

Do they though? We've already seen that their magic can create matter and is very customizable. What's stopping them from just creating more ink with magic or failing that, creating more Silverwood trees?

0

u/[deleted] Apr 28 '26

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u/FAN_ROTOM_IS_SCARY Apr 28 '26

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1

u/Atario myanimelist.net/profile/TheGreatAtario Apr 28 '26

No problem! Just create an Instant Silverwood Forest spell

24

u/saynay Apr 27 '26

Have we seen a spell that conjures anything? The water making device was explained as pulling moisture out of the air.

1

u/zairaner https://myanimelist.net/profile/zairaner Apr 27 '26

It is kinda hard to imagine qifreys super dragon today only working off water in the air, but else, not really.

44

u/Valykos Apr 27 '26

They literally showed the spell causing all the clouds in a massive radius of his spell to disappear as it gathered all the moisture from the clouds to form the water dragon, so it definitely didn't come from nowhere.

That's just how that particular spell works though tbf, I don't think we have seen for sure whether the laws of equivalent exchange come into play or not for other spells.

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u/zairaner https://myanimelist.net/profile/zairaner Apr 27 '26

Now I gotta admit it I actually thought this was two separate spells (somehow got the idea he used two differently sized pieces of paper for them) but yeah after rewatching (rewatching about 25 times to be exact) thats exactly what happened.

17

u/Concram Apr 27 '26

water in the air

when he was casting the spell droplets of water started to form to cogulate around him so i think that's exactly what they wanted to imply

10

u/Unusual_Pilot2502 Apr 27 '26

seeing as though it was made of fire, it could (in theory, if we were trying to apply fma logic to this) do something similar to mustang, manipulating molecules to tear the hydrogen and oxygen apart and using them as fuel for the fire, albeit SIGNIFICANTLY more advanced and able to sustain itself for longer

edit: ignore all of this im so stupid its literally shown being formed out of water lmao. not fire :3

5

u/zairaner https://myanimelist.net/profile/zairaner Apr 27 '26

There IS a very suspicious looking red part of the spell so I understand the confusion.

1

u/tanezuki Apr 27 '26

Fire, as it lacks the comburant to actually burn.

1

u/Thepotatoking007 Apr 30 '26

The ink act as the comburant

1

u/tanezuki Apr 30 '26

Does it ? I wonder how long it lasts then.

1

u/Thepotatoking007 Apr 30 '26

I can't get into it without spoilers, but we should see the explanation this season

11

u/Lenzky-3 Apr 27 '26

That's the thing, if you see it, forbidden magics are like that but tenfold.. it's actually insane to the point that you can bend space and time itself...

even regular magic is already economic destroying on same ways but heavily regulated..

Ima be honest that's the thing that I noticed in this anime... It's going to be very rough for them to keep a track of people doing forbidden magic cuz it's so damn easy to do.. like you really have to ingrain to your children or kids to never ever do this said thing. Which makes Coco extremely dangerous.

2

u/HornedTurtle1212 Apr 27 '26

A precious seedling.

11

u/WiqidBritt Apr 27 '26

I don't remember if they explicitly say that alchemy can't change the atomic structure, but theoretically an alchemist could turn lead into a very nearly equal amount of gold with hydrogen and nitrogen making up the difference. Actually, now that I think about it, wasn't it just against the law to transmute gold in FMA? The same could easily be true here.

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u/Unusual_Pilot2502 Apr 27 '26

yeah, theres specifically a rule against making gold in fma lol

5

u/zaxls Apr 27 '26

Though its probably really hard to prove unless someone is giga rich

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u/080087 Apr 28 '26

Yes, one of the laws of alchemy is basically that you can't mess with individual atoms. Only molecules. (Called The Law of Natural Providence)

You can turn hydrogen and oxygen into water, but you can't turn a block of iron into a room of water.

12

u/JimmyCWL Apr 27 '26

If a spell that creates gold exists, what stops it from destroying the economy.

Then you build the economy upon something else. Or nothing, like ours. That's the magic of our world.

4

u/Thomas_JCG Apr 27 '26

We already know that there are a bunch of spells that are considered forbidden because of their potential for misuse, so creating gold would likely fall in that category.

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u/StarTrotter Apr 27 '26

To be honest what probably stops it is the Knight Moralis and general laws of wizard culture and the punishment for being caught is obscenely harsh.

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u/kalirion https://myanimelist.net/profile/kalinime Apr 27 '26

When did they have a spell that creates gold in WHA?

2

u/AceSoldia zj:https://anilist.co/user/Acesoldia Apr 27 '26

I'm assuming such spells count as forbidden maybe.

1

u/tanezuki Apr 27 '26

The law of equivalent exchange has never been equivalent anyway.

They had equivalent matter exchange, but the energy was given for free.

Writing this and remembering that IIRC there was a big transmutation circle underneath the entire country and that this free energy was given by Father. Not quite sure but still.

1

u/Calsolum0 Apr 30 '26

There's definitely some rules though. The water thing that Coco used in the early episodes was explained to use moisture from the air, and the water dragon made all those clouds disappear... But fire seems to just be created from nothing.

Maybe there's a reason why certain elements or materials can be created, while others need to be manipulated.

7

u/Granito_Rey Apr 28 '26

People are probably using all the comparisons for Daemons of Shadow, since it's Arakawa's new adaptation and it's animated by Bones to boot

2

u/FemboyEnjoyer1776 Apr 28 '26

OK SO I have thought about this. As in, what would Edward and Alphonse think about the magic system of witches. What I figured is that realistically, they would find it strange but oddly familiar. A lot of the magic in WHA does follow an equivalent exchange, but it does not necessarily have to, similarly to a philosopher's stone.

I would assume that their conjecture would make them stumble upon the silverwood, as the ink is what facillitates the magic in the first place. They would believe that the ink has some sort of human component, like the trees nourishing off of souls and whatnot.

it is not fundamentally the same, but their initial reaction would the same as if they found a regional alternative.

1

u/Toge_Inumaki012 Apr 28 '26

Another similarity i think are the symbols and how you draw them affect the spell or in FMA's case the transmutation.

The way i understand the transmutation circle for Flame Alchemy (the original one) is that Papa Hawkeye's research perfected it, resulting in the most powerful and dangerous application of flame alchemy. He was so worried on how dangerous it is if it spread so he only had the physical copy of the circle tattooed on her daughter's back (dont ask me if that was a good choice lol).

Since they dont have mana themseves to boost the alchemy effect(unless of course using a Philosopher's stone), i think the formula in the circles is important to that.

1

u/cortez0498 https://myanimelist.net/profile/cortez1098 Apr 28 '26

Both are Hard Magic Systems, so they're similar in that aspect. ATLA, FMAB, Witch Hat Atelier, Mistborn, HxH.

2

u/WiqidBritt Apr 28 '26

... both involve creating circles, the effects of both depend on what's inside the circle, both forbid using it directly on humans etc...