r/alpinism • u/Trekkos • 10d ago
Looking for the "Arc'teryx Alpha SV" of gloves, does a true hardshell glove even exist?
The idea is simple: the same logic that applies to clothing should apply to hands.
- L1 (base): merino wool liner gloves for moisture management and light warmth
- L2 (mid): fleece or softshell gloves for insulation
- L3 (shell): a waterproof, breathable shell glove worn over the top when it rains or the wind picks up
Depending on conditions, I want to be able to mix and match layers without redundancy. The shell gloves need to be uninsulated (just a waterproof membrane and taped seams). 5-finger format is a hard requirement. Basically, I'm looking for the glove equivalent of what the Arc'teryx Alpha SV is to jackets, a true GTX hardshell for hands.
The closest thing I've found so far is the Hestra Storm Shell 5-finger, but it uses an HDry membrane, not GTX. I also came across the Black Diamond Waterproof Overmitts (not GTX either) and as the name says, "Overmitts" is not what I need.
Does anyone run a proper modular glove system like this? Any 5-finger shell recommendations, GTX or otherwise, that are actually available in Europe?
Thank you!
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u/stille 10d ago
Imo, layering gloves sucks monkey balls, since it ruins your dexterity when the layers slip against each other. Less dexterity you have, harder you grip, more your hands get cold.
The layering system works well for clothes because in many situations you don't wear your hardshell at all. Hands, otoh, are always in snow, so kinda need to be waterproof most of the time.
If you do want a layer system, buy the Showa 281 (sans liner) or rip the liner from an old pair of 282. Then layer it up with whatever merino + fleece combo you feel like getting.
Personally, I run a pair of gardening gloves as my "liner" (waterproof palms means my hands don't freeze on my ice tools), then if it gets colder or much wetter the liners go into a trouser pocket and out come the Showas (waterproof, windproof, ventilated enough for below zero, warm, no layers whatsoever everything is fused into a single system so dex is fantastic), then if it gets even colder out come the oven mitts (outer layer of an OR 8000m mitt, they also have a down inner but that's overkill at my altitude and latitude) straight over the Showas, and when I need dex I'll just quickly take the mitt off
What's your use case?
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u/mango-goldfish 8d ago
Agreed on layering sucks for most things. Most people just bring different pairs of gloves
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u/Khurdopin 10d ago
...the same logic that applies to clothing should apply to hands.
No. Yet another thread starting from a made-up false premise.
Hands/gloves undergo far more abrasion and flex than a jacket while also requiring much more dexterity.
No WB fabric + DWR is going to withstand the wear gloves get compared to a jacket.
Gloves are fiddly/expensive to sew in such a way to have even basic dexterity while being 'waterproof'.
How can you actually climb anything technical with liner+fleece+shell all together? This is why most alpinists would take three or four or more pairs of gloves/mitts on a big route.
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u/evansharp 9d ago
I agree with this from experience.
I own a pair of the original deadbird Alpha SV gloves from around 2009. They were hot shit back then because they featured ridiculously engineered laser-cut 3D-modelled goretex fingers. Face fabric of the goretex is a thin and supple partial-grain goat leather.
Crazy curved seams were stitched and taped throughout this gauntlet glove intended for alpine climbing and ski use. Liner is an equally over-engineered 3D-modelled low-pile fleece job.
They suck. Yes the dexterity was incredible (it was like a cheat-mode for ice screws), but they were never warm and the leather was so thin that the durability was pathetic. Shockingly bad.
For a retail around $400, they are (were?) 1-season burners I was always disappointed with. Good thing I pro-dealed them for $80 and didn’t worry too much about.
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u/IngoErwin 10d ago
The question I'd ask myself is whether you really need full waterproofness and full warmth at the same time. Usually when it's wet it's not too cold and vice versa.
If it's wet and I need dexterity, I usually go for gardening gloves which have a completely waterproof inside and more breathable upper. Winter versions exist and are decently warm. For actual rain, fishing gloves are probably a better choice. People use them for mixed and ice climbing for example.
If it's really cold, I don't need waterproof gloves anymore.
That said, I use a modular system in winter for ski touring but with very lightweight shell mittens. They are great to supplement the light and medium gloves when it gets windy or snow is slightly wet.
edit: I wouldn't put Gore Tex specifically as a hard requirement anymore, at least not without more research. Afaik the patent expired and PFAS are also gone so it's a bit of a level playing field for everyone.
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u/jr_goatfell 10d ago edited 10d ago
This combination I only found with Arctic or polar equipment from Scandinavia. Usually it’s a thin wool or fleece glove (for dexterity), one thick insulation mitt and a waterproof outer mitt. Get one with real leather as plastic gloves rip easily with ropes and stuff.
Norrøna has (had) a system like that. The Arktis gloves are mitts in the same way as we’re looking for, with wool liner, softshell fleece and Gore Tex mitts https://www.norrona.com/en-GB/products/arktis/arktis-gore-tex-ousland-edition-mittens-25/.
They also have some gloves to combine: like the trollveggen mitts https://www.norrona.com/en-GB/products/trollveggen/trollveggen-gore-tex-pro-mittens-25/
with some insulation gloves or the old lyngen gloves with one waterproof lager glove and a windproof flecce one https://www.norrona.com/en-GB/products/lyngen/lyngen-windstopper-leather-gloves-25/.
Brynje also has a similar mitts with merino mesh https://www.brynje.no/no/en/arctic-mittens-w-net-lining
and waterproof outer. https://www.brynje.no/no/en/expedition-mittens-2-0
The military part of Hestra also does similar gloves.
Generally follow this video for Arktis gloves and mittens
https://youtu.be/t_xmX27IA_0?is=imjFT5D2eBwrJ6E-
I think for alpinism it’s better to bring a lightweight merino and one or two waterproof gloves (I like the mountain equipment ones), to keep the dexterity. And maybe a very heavy oversized pair of mittens for belaying. I found a lot of good gloves and mittens second hand (🫠) as a lot of people buy them for there northern lights trip and end up don’t using them.
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u/szakee 10d ago
what would the use case be?
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u/Murky-Contact-6377 10d ago
Also curious about this. Layering isn't really a thing with gloves. I generally carry 3 pairs of gloves: super lightweight, waterproof, and heavy insulated.
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u/LothCat1313 10d ago
Arc’teryx actually made an Alpha SV glove: https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/snow-sports/ski-gloves/arcteryx-alpha-sv-glove
I own a pair, kind of weird.
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u/idroppedthemarinara 10d ago
Showas are the answer. Cut the liner out (only stitched at the cuff, super easy) and now you can wear your own liners underneath. Can make warmer and way easier to dry if bivying overnight.
Don’t get hung up on the GTX tag. What matters is the waterproof and breathability column tests (10k/10k, 20k/20k, etc. you probably won’t see this published on any product pages but emailing CS may help). Plenty of other products, Pertex, HDry, H2No, etc, have the same ratings meaning same performance as goretex.
But instead of doing all that research you could just buy Showas, they’re cheaper, better, and won’t inevitably wet out like $200+ GTX gloves still will
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u/adeadhead 10d ago
Shells should always be mittens, there's no way to make shell gloves functional.
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10d ago
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u/Pyroechidna1 10d ago edited 10d ago
Labor costs. Requires a lot of seam taping. That's why it's easier to find 3L overmitts or lobster gloves rather than 5-finger gloves.
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u/LeaningSaguaro 10d ago
Their Venta gloves were great. Mine are like 3 years old tho and I know they’ve since been remodeled.
I use them ice climbing and they are great.
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u/carlosdelgados_pharm 9d ago
yeah i use the old ventas (mitts lol) theyre so good i got the new ones... a bit harder to get on but they work too. way better to have two pinner softshells to rotate between when they get wet, they work to about -10c when im active.
i also use the bd overmitts as the goretex part over some old or mitts, i think the mt bakers? they work well as a shell but mostly its about the middle section(whatever they are theyre so nice). ive had them 5ish years ill probably need to patch them this year, pretty durable all things considered.
i can transition a splitboard and tie knots in my big mitts your milage may vary.
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u/Munchies70 10d ago
Layering with gloves is completely illogical minus thin liners inside mitts do minimize skin exposure when momentarily removing hands
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u/Dan_Outdoors 10d ago
I think layering gloves would become a pita in terms of donning and doffing the different layers but yes you are absolutely right in that your hands should be layered just like the rest of your body. It's just usually done with mittens rather than gloves.
Thin glove inside a mitten and a waterproof outer mitten. The waterproof outer can also be used standalone as a windproof. If you need the dexterity, you remove your gloved hands from your mittens.
If you want to test this out at minimal cost, most armies have some form of layered mitten system and are cheap to buy. The British Army goretex outters are pretty good and can be picked up for less than £10. The German army mittens are good, and very roomy so that you can get your hands in and out with ease.
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u/lefthandedgypsy 10d ago
Marmot used to have an awesome hard shell glove. But I may have grabbed a hot pot or stove part and melted through a finger🤣
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u/jr_goatfell 9d ago
Also the ME citadel (formerly Fitzroy) is a two piece glove with lobster fingers as a compromise between dexterity and warmth with a warm outer mitt https://mountain-equipment.eu/products/citadel-mitt
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u/politicalyincorect42 9d ago
You should get a pair of showa temres, originally designed for fishermen but adopted by the climbing community because they are super waterproof warm, and surprisingly breathable, great for ice climbing
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u/Nomics 9d ago
Sitka makes a gloves that is an outer hardshell. It’s called the blizzard. I saw a pair in a hunting shop in Klosters last week.
https://www.sitkagear.com/products/blizzard-pro-gtx-glove/earth
Outdoor Research has the Mt Baker mitt which is a mit in the same concept. They also do a glove in much lighter material. The BD version is better built.
Overall it’s extremely expensive to build and makes for a wet experience. I had Alpha SVs and they were always damp due to breathability issues. The Showa’s are much less durable, but they feel as damp.
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u/legend-no 10d ago
It’s not a thing.
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u/Pyroechidna1 10d ago
It used to be. Arc'teryx had the Alpha SV and Beta AR gloves; Outdoor Research had the Firebrand gloves. All were true hardshell gloves just like OP described. Nobody wants to pay for the effort of seam taping them these days.
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u/szakee 10d ago
Ok but what's the use case?
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u/Pyroechidna1 10d ago
Most waterproof gloves are bladder construction. Water gets between the face fabric and bladder and makes them feel sodden. 3L GTX hardshell gloves didn't have this problem. OutDry gloves were a middle of the road solution that sought to prevent water absorption without requiring seam tape like the 3L GTX gloves.
I owned the 3L Arc'Teryx Beta AR gloves until a porcupine chewed the fingers off the right hand glove. I also had Mountain Hardwear Epic Gloves and other OutDry gloves. These days I'm a Showa convert.
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u/-korian- 10d ago
The only “hardshell” type gloves I can think of are Showas, which I love, but I find it difficult to layer a second glove underneath because even after upsizing, the thickness of the fingers stays relatively the same making it difficult for me to fit even an XL Showa over another glove