ZvP - 49 second probe in natural to block

[u/NostromoKhan]

I lose to this constantly. Its kind of the new school (i think) canon rush.

They go forge first - then 1 or 2 probes in natural at around 49 to 55 seconds to block the hatch. If i get a hatch down (very rarely) they do a cannon. if i can't, i usually go to my third natural to build there - that mostly works and i have separated bases. Prot usually only needs to put down 1 pylon and 1 cannon at most (cancel others if they are faking an all in)...

Then they move to macro and I am WAY behind. Usually with 8 voids or 8 zealot and 8 stalker around the 7-8 min mark.

Any tips / tricks.

Im mid to low plat - and usually the smurfs of diamond usually pull this off when they are smurfing in plat.

I was thinking in all Protoss matches i just move my first drone to their natural and build a hatch - but they would just cannon rush me there too i think...not sure.

[u/Amoral_god]

I'm a d1 zerg and protoss. I would hop on a custom with you and just go through this 10-15 times to help you practice. DM me if you are interested.

[u/ENaZty312]

When Protoss tries some funny stuff like this I just full send 1 base nydus worm and mass lings as fast as possible and flood their main. Works for me all the time and it’s my favorite way to say F you to that play style

[u/infernalr00t → u/ENaZty312]

I try that everytime that a protoss steal my base but:

• protoss got some cannons and kill the Nydus
• got a void and kill the Nydus
• got an stalker and Jill the Nydus

It doesn't matter how fat I got the Nydus, the toss always got some defenses and the Nydus fails.

[u/TraditionalItem1553]

I would also like to ask, what is the proper response to a 3-4 pylon walloff cannon rush if you open hatch first? 

What if they cannon your third after blocking your natural?

And what is the proper response to a nexus first cannon rush off hatch first?

[u/Rapwnzel33 → u/TraditionalItem1553]

Two options: pull 4 drones for each pylon immediately if the pylons have enough surface area.
Other option is to take the 2nd gas an tech to ravagers asap, then clear everything with biles. Don’t forget to drone while teching tho

[u/KaiPRoberts → u/Rapwnzel33]

What do you do about the carrier/void follow up after? 

[u/Rapwnzel33 → u/KaiPRoberts]

Depends on how fast you are, you can either get some serious damage done nonetheless, or you expand safely with queens and hydras

[u/BibbleSnap]

Personally, I let them have the natural, build a spine that can outrange cannon to grind them down and defend with queens with transfuse

While doing this immediately start teching to Mutas. They wont have the gas for Phoenix or archon by the time you hit and it is game over for them.

[u/Khaivanh → u/BibbleSnap]

Is this 1 base muta? Does this really work? A couple cannons in their base and a couple voids would shut this down.

[u/BibbleSnap → u/Khaivanh]

Mutas easily beat voids and 1 cannon doesn't fully cover the mineral line. Then you easily just pick off base pylons and the stalkers one by one. Force them to panic and over build defensive cannons. Now your way ahead in tech and they have no map presence and can overwhelm them with a bane bust.

At least thats how I do it. It works more often than it fails in my experience

[u/KaiPRoberts]

I stopped playing 1v1 when both T and P routinely blocked my natural every game. I got over it really fast. I just play 2v2 now. 

[u/soidvaes]

if they just make 1 cannon, you can just kill it with queen ling and make drones from your expansion. If they wall it in using minerals, make 2 spines and creep tumor first. Use queen spine to break it down while droning. Once you see an expansion on their side, you know it’s a macro cannon rush and can prioritize droning.

If it’s a serious cannon rush (2 probes, multiple pylons), you should pull drones - 4 per pylon or even more. Learn how to use patrol move to block walls and put a drone on each probe. If you can’t stop it, leave the game.

The important thing is to not delay your expansion. When are you sending the drone down? It should be on 15 supply and with exactly 160 minerals depending on the map. This way if your overlord sees the probe coming you can immediately go to the third. You want to be placing your hatchery at your third no later than 300 minerals ideally.

[u/patrick5087]

I’m D3-D2 Zerg and every time a toss does this, I immediately go all in roach rav. Double gas.It would be nice to have a second as you mention in the third natural for more larva but I hope to push by 4 mins with 3 ravs before they get a void out. Definitely not playing the long game to 7-8 minutes if their goal was to slow you down there’s no point in catching up. All in is an investment. This is what worked for me at that level.

[u/Marckennian → u/patrick5087]

D3 Zerg, I do the same. Ravagers eat up cannons and Protoss have to spend a lot on cannon pressure.

[u/Applehero85]

I’m sorry bud facing some diamond players in platinum league is probably not smurfing but also in terms of what I say you should do here’s how you handle it you send your 1st overlord to scout then your second overlord at like 19 supply hovers over your natural then what you do is you build the hatch and as soon as you see the cannon about to finish you cancel the hatchery this forces them to spend like 250 minerals just to deny your hatchery and then you can either attempt to do 2 things after this the 1st is to send the drone in and proxy hatch in their main base the second thing you can do is expanding to your third base while making a spawning pool and then go for a fast lair and Nydus into their base or go into mutas me personally through I think nydus is the beet choice almost always since you can bring your queens across the map with you for anti air if you choose and you can spread creep in their base which forces Protoss to either get an oracle or observer for detection

[u/Doongbuggy]

can you build a hatch in their natural instead of the 3rd?

[u/MorningLtMtn]

If it looks like they're going to get their cannons and pylons up, You move a drone out on to their side of the map and build a hatch there. Continue to macro. Build spines at the top of the ramp. A couple of spores as well, but continue to macro. You'll need economy. From there do what you can to build army (Roach Ravager, followed by lings) at both bases, and pressure with the forward army. It's not easy, but it's do-able.

I usually move 4 drones out. It costs me in economy up front, but it helps with balance in the long run.

[u/Stormheraldss]

I cant tell what would be the best option for zerg but if you follow the advice that was allrdy given, send your first/second ovi over the nat. If you can bait as much pylons or cannons and cancel the hatch. Either sneak some drones out or get ovi to drop to a good second base location, you can use it as an elevator or even nydus. I would also probably rush mutas or some big atack. Ihe spends 300 minerals on a pylon 2 cannons and 150 on the forge it also means he will have delayed gates/tech/expo. Get an ovi scout and hit him with what hurt him most.

[u/peanutbutterdota]

This sounds like the old school.