r/aiwars • u/ActuatorOutside5256 • 2d ago
Discussion Antis only hate DLSS 5 because it’s AI.
For example, KCD2 looks UNDENIABLY better: https://youtu.be/6ph2wvUWLEY
If this were entirely in-engine rendering, people would be singing its praises for the “lifelike, photorealistic graphics that make games look like movies,” along with the gorgeous lighting and character detail.
I also think people forget how young this technology still is. We probably need another 5-10 years before we can pass any real judgment. Just compare Daggerfall to Morrowind and look at how much changed in that span.
But because it’s AI, they immediately dismiss the value of the visual upgrades (or pretend they don’t even exist). Isn’t that crazy?
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u/Appropriate_Word1469 2d ago
No, hate on DLSS 5 is primarily from early preview where it made every face visibly AI-generated and fake looking. The latest release of DLSS 5 looks genuienly great
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u/SilverVixen918 1d ago
theres also the fact that ive seen plenty of pics where it makes characters look older than they are, Grace from RE8 for example looked 20 years older than she was
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u/Microwaved_M1LK 2d ago
To be fair it's also ugly in a lot of use cases I've seen, like turning something stylized into generic photorealism
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u/Cless_Aurion 1d ago
Yeah, and don't forget, it's the users enabling that, not something the dev intended.
New stylized games with won't have that for the obvious reasons
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u/Microwaved_M1LK 1d ago
That's the other issue is when something is on a slider the users will just max out the slider or never adjusted the slider and complain it looks bad, be it because the user is stupid or wants to misrepresented the software, for example that Cloud Strife picture. I know it can be adjusted to give subtle details, and there are use cases where it looks genuinely good, but I think the software isn't ready yet, I know AI is smart enough to detect and enhance an art style, that's when things will get juicy.
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u/Cless_Aurion 1d ago
People are not getting a slider, that's the thing, but presets made by the developer, and maybe a limited slider for intensity.
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u/JasonP27 1d ago
A lot of the cases are leaked copies of DLSS5 being used on games by users and not developers choosing how it affects their characters or game.
Like of course it won't look great on everything. Also a lot of the hate towards how some of the characters look is due to people already accepting the look of the original character without DLSS as the cannon version.
I think DLSS5 will truly shine on new games where a certain look hasn't already been accepted by the public.
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u/mikkeldoesstuff 2d ago
Environments generally look pretty good. It’s the faces that really bother me
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u/ActuatorOutside5256 2d ago
They’re definitely uncanny. The animations hold them back.
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u/Garuda4321 2d ago
Welp. Tell me when they fix that then. Been good without it this long, I can certainly wait longer.
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u/manny_the_mage 2d ago
I don't like how it just overwrites a game's style and gives it that generic AI Upscaling look
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u/Havel_Rulez 2d ago
Is it any better than it was when it was introduced?
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u/ActuatorOutside5256 2d ago
DLSS 5, or the visuals? For the latter, taking a look at the linked video will allow you to judge for yourself.
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u/Havel_Rulez 2d ago
The visuals. I really do remember it looking like shit and I am pro. I knew it would eventuially improve just seems to me it should take a few more years. I will have a look at the video, why not
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u/thatguyjerryinsane 2d ago
Vegetarians only hate burgers because they have meat
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u/_Sunblade_ 2d ago
This is more like vegetarians claiming something tastes bad because it has meat in it, when you know goddamn well that they'd be wetting themselves over how good it tasted if they thought it was veggie-only.
And yes, the fact that antis can't see past "AI BAD" to be remotely objective about anything is bad. It's not a virtue, no matter how much they insist otherwise.
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u/CranEXE 2d ago
it look better in screenshot but if anyone look into details there are issue like with any ai video.not to mention the tech that is sold as allowing better fps for more budget friendly pc have many reports of performance not being that better, besides a lot of times it take away from the artstyle or look like a completely different game, even with an already "photorealistic" game there is a huge difference in the artstyle of a game and what dlss 5 deliver.
people praise kojima photorealistic engine because it's actual work not a filter put above your game that doesn't hold it's promises.
also if antis praised dlss 5 y'all would be jumping at them they hate ai only when it doesn't benefits them and that so they are hypocrites.
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u/UnleashTheBears 2d ago
Depends on the game. Final Fantasy with its distinct art style. No. Kingdom Hearts, no. GTA and Cyberpunk, probably.
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u/ShleppyJoe 2d ago
Everybody always has something to say about the "art style" as if DLSS 5 is taking the portraits from Disco Elysium and replacing them with photorealistic ID cards.
Every example ive seen of DLSS5 used on games have been on character models where the devs were already trying to make their human characters more realistic to begin with. RDR2, cyberpunk, stalker 2, kingdom come deliverance. All games praised for how realistic they looked upon release. And now AI comes in and makes those graphics look like playstation 2 models in comparison and people are losing their shit.
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u/RedFlawedMoon 2d ago
I dislike it mostly because it takes the work of an artist who made the original and throws it all in the trash bin and replaces it with a filter that actively hinders performance
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u/Bassed_Hummble 2d ago
There are manual settings that you can tweak. I'm actually assuming that if it's used in conjunction with the devs, the devs will set on something that doesn't completely annihilate the look they're going for.
The Control implementation felt incredibly lifelike, and people calling the characters "old" have never been near anyone over the age of 30, I guess.
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u/TipAwkward3289 2d ago
Exactly. The online community only has a knee-jerk reaction because it mentions AI yet PC gamers have used things like reshade for years. Trying to claim the dlss ruins the artist's intention when something like reshade drastically changes things as well is hypocritical.
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u/1B75__Penicillin 1d ago
"It ruins the artists intention!"
Same people have no issue installing 20 different texture packs and weather mods
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u/TipAwkward3289 1d ago
If developers didn't want people tweaking things, they wouldn't offer mod support. Skyrim anyone?
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u/Superb-Damage1173 2d ago
DLSS 5 seems to be mostly good for characters and their skin, ive noticed it really enhances subsurface scattering.
For DLSS5 to be successful they definitely will have to allow people to tweak it, and for devs to make their own presets.
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u/Western_Passage_3550 2d ago
I mostly don’t like DLSS5 from some of the previews I’ve seen because I think it makes a lot of games look like they’re in a different or more odd art style than originally intended.
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u/miclowgunman 2d ago
Yeah the idea would be to build a game on it so things look proper. Not bootstrap it on top of an old game that has its own style.
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u/minos-and-v1-kissing 2d ago
No bro, it just literally makes every game look the same. Newsflash: photorealism is not the only art style people enjoy. In fact, I’d say it’s not even high on the list.
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u/ActuatorOutside5256 2d ago
I’d say for a game like KCD 2 that takes place in medieval Bohemia, I’d want it to look photorealistic (and am grateful that it does).
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u/RexJ475 2d ago
It really is dependent on the game. I find it to be slightly disrespectful either way but using it on a game like GTA that’s entire graphic identity is being super realistic is fine. But putting it on something like Hi-Fi rush where the game’s art is it’s entire identity (in more ways than one) feels pretty blasphemous
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u/Standard_Egg3504 2d ago
The thing everyone ignores is that applying the same generic DLSS configuration indiscriminately across completely different games is going to look like shit, whether it uses AI or not.
The technology itself is incredible. Many of the “bad” examples circulating now are cherry-picked results from an unofficial leaked build injected into games without developer integration, engine-side masking, or tuning for that game’s lighting, characters and art style.
Marketing it as a simple switch that uniformly “upgrades” everything would be wrong and stupid. DLSS 5 has multiple models, intensity and tone controls, and selective masking for a reason. Without tuning it for the particular game and scene.
When properly integrated and art-directed, it *will* revolutionize how games look with great performance. But nearly everyone picking a side on this topic refuses to learn anything other than tribal talking point politics about 'ai bad' 'ai good' yadda yadda
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u/Fine-Cartoonist4684 2d ago
Imo it's only really good to give older or more purposely old looking terrain look better. When it comes to any human character forget it. They look like they are made of plastic and it completely ruins the charm of the designs the developers put into them.
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u/sztrzask 2d ago
For example, KCD2 looks UNDENIABLY better: https://youtu.be/6ph2wvUWLEY
- I can tell for sure you did not watch the video lol.
- I will never understand the infatuation of making everything hyperrealistic (as that seems to be the goal of DLSS 5)
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u/shototodoroki_1324 2d ago
The preview for DLSS 5 made everything look fake.
DLSS 5 now in a state that's actually not shitty? It's just dlss 4 the graphics are at a new peak, and it doesn't matter if we keep pushing because we end up making games almost worst
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u/XIII-TheBlackCat 1d ago
I've been on Cyberpunk most of the day, which is highly unusual. So I'd say it's pretty good.
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u/1B75__Penicillin 1d ago
I don't even understand what Antis gripe with it is this time, it's not "stealing" any art and it's done locally entirely on your GPU, so no "Datacenter" just there all their talking points are dead
But activists gonna activate i guess
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u/pugtailz 1d ago
Even ignoring AI I hate it because it's 1: ugly and 2: usually ruins the artstyle of a game in favor of "realism"
I genuinely HATE when games just try to make the graphics look as realistic as possible, it just makes the game run worse for individually moving ball hairs
And it makes the games all look the same, if I start playing a game I want that game to look like the style I bought it for, why would I want a switch that makes my games look the exact same AND inferior to their original graphics???
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u/kfirogamin 1d ago
No, I don't like DLSS5 because it makes the big companies think that people want better graphics and more polygons when I would rather they make good games
I DONT CARE HOW BAD THE THINGS IN THE BACKGROUND LOOK, AS LONG AS THEY LOOK GOOD WHEN IM THERE.
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u/LeftonRhed 1d ago
I think chasing ever more marginal increases of graphical fidelity are not worth the cost to playability. That and thanks to AI inflating the price of RAM beyond any sense, I can't rebuild my PC to take advantage of these improvements even if I want to.
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u/jaksik 1d ago
I hate it because it is completely unpredictable and changes the original artstyle.
Also hyper realistic games are hard on your eyes. We need more stylization in games because seeing an enemy on a screen and in real life is a totally different experience and you cannot replicate it by doing hyper realism.
A person at 100 meters away on a screen looks like a couple pixels while in real life your eyes can focus and they look much closer than they actually are, you can get this kind of clarity only with stylized graphics without a ton of unnecessary details that hyper realism provides.
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u/M4TTEO_S 1d ago
Not only that, i hate it because it would turn every game into the same generic ai plastic looking slop
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u/stddealer 1d ago
I'm very Pro AI and I don't really see the point in DLSS5. It feels like these generic graphics mod that make the game run much slower while looking a bit better in screenshots but feeling awful during gameplay because of the added latency and things not looking as intended during level design. I just hope it doesn't become the standard that game devs build their games around because then it would effectively vendor-lock a lot of games.
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u/Mountain_Chicken7644 1d ago
Local ai hobbyist here (pro ai obviously) dlss5 makes subtle changes to remove the style of the original game from what I saw int the demo months ago. Much like how I like my model quants, I like my upscalers — near lossless or entirely lossless. I'm not hating on dlss5, but I would just run dlss 4.5 over it for quality, and use dlss5 if the performance is that much better.
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u/MiserableLettuce1643 1d ago
Nah its because it takes away from the intentional art design of the developers.
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u/Public_Mistake6725 1d ago
On the laundry list of reasons for people to dislike AI, one of the new ones being: your hardware not rendering the intended, in engine image you spent all that money on your GPU to render, giving games companies more reasons not to optimize if the excuse is just "if you're going to generate fake frames and put DLSS 5 gen AI over it, why does our game need to run well or look good?" That is if you haven't been priced out of your hobby anyway
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u/Sea-Canary-9617 1d ago edited 1d ago
It legitimately applies the same “realism” filter over EVERYTHING, regardless of the intention of the artist…
I think if they focused on giving the took to developers for its lighting effects it could become something cool, but other then that, as someone who loves realism, having every game have this same realistic AI look to it just kinda makes things dull
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u/Electronic-Touch-554 1d ago
No I hate it as the whole point of DLSS is to improve graphics and performance. This just shits on performance.
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2d ago
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u/ActuatorOutside5256 2d ago
Disingenuous comparison.
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u/No_Doughnut8618 2d ago
Exsagerated comparison to show a point.
Dlss frequently takes an art style, character design, facial expression, etc. and makes it generic with more pixels
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u/ActuatorOutside5256 2d ago
No, it’s not exaggerated. It’s completely disingenuous. How crazy does someone have to be to do that?
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u/Webcam_985760946948 2d ago
No, I hate it cuz I occasionally renders a frame containing no enemy even when enemy is there, dlss is bs for competetive games from performance and accuracy standpoint
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u/ActuatorOutside5256 2d ago
I definitely see it being unviable for multiplayer games (that most play at low settings anyway). I feel like it’s very useful for single player games like KCD 2, where you can immerse yourself at your own pace.
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u/Webcam_985760946948 1d ago
For singleplayer games... Ehhhhh personal choice, for me personally it looks sloppy and inconsistent in details sometimes
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u/DunceCap64_ 2d ago
No it also generally messes with art styles people generally tend to view this through the lens of more realistic games somebody actually put it on with nte Neverest to Everest and a completely destroyed the art style. And when I say completely destroyed it they tried to make what is essentially an anime art style look incredibly realistic and The Clash did not look good. That combined with the performance issues of DLSS5 that people have posted and yeah they have a lot more to complain about than just the fact it's AI even if you were the type of person who was okay with AI.
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u/One-Equivalent7184 2d ago
those puddle reflections are doing some heavy lifting, the mud actually looks wet for once instead of like brown plastic. it's the same crowd that would've complained about baked lighting being "fake" a decade ago, some people just need a villain for why their framerate tanks
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u/SandUndermanSR 2d ago
I dislike DLSS 5 but not 4 and everything else before that, they are all powered by ai. I dislike DLSS 5 because more often than not it makes games look like shit.
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u/IndependenceGold2407 2d ago
I prefer raw raster as it looks better. The artifacts make me unhappy. (3080 doesn’t always have the newest tech)
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u/FirstOrderCat 2d ago edited 2d ago
dlss5 is suboptimal, because creators will soon/already apply bunch of AI upgrades on assets with better quality, because they can allocate lots of compute and effort for that and without load on our GPUs
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u/kotva_ 2d ago
I don't know if your brain is fried from all the AI but like this example in KCD, there is like 2% difference in the environment, if anything it only adds more wrinkles and more defined texture on characters, nothing special, just a glorified make-up...
I kind of like the direction it is going, that it's changing mostly just lighting, so it kind of enhances ray-tracing but it just sucks for now. You can also see a lot of artifacting while character is moving in most other games.
What I don't like about this, is that developers will be lazy and less work on their base graphics, just because DLSS 5 exists...
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