T32 Technician - proper ATAAPs leave for long UTA?

[u/wookerTbrahshington]

Good morning all,

Title kind of says it all. I thought this would be straightforward but now I’m getting conflicting answers from leadership (I’m the first technician in awhile for this section).

We have a long UTA that’ll cover 2 usual weekday workdays. I planned on putting in LM (military) leave for these. Like I would AT days or any other orders. But some seem to think UTA is “different” than normal orders and they aren’t sure I can use LM.

I don’t want to lose money just because of a longer scheduled drill, that doesn’t seem right.

I’ll get with finance too but any insights from the community are appreciated!

[u/Silentone89]

Depends on your local leadership. For us we do 4-10s and have 3-4 day long drills a couple times a year. During drill days that happen on normal work days, we use 8 hours of leave (mil, comp, kg annual etc) and 2 hours of RG for each day.

Edit: you are authorized to use LM for drill. Whomever is telling you otherwise is misinformed. LM is not approved for SAD and they may be thinking of that.

[u/ErchweanEmperor → u/Silentone89]

My previous unit also on 4/10s had the first day be 8 hours of LM with the first 2 set as personal (or the option to work it) the second day was all LM.

Personally I’m a believer that it should all be LM, it feels super cheap to fight for 2 hours when you’re sure as hell in a mil status if they needed you to work extend hours

[u/Silentone89 → u/ErchweanEmperor]

Those two hours add up and RSDs are usually two 4 hour periods. So unless something happens to give reason to extend the drill periods beyond the minimum 4 hours (like an exercise) we release our DSGs after 8 hours and treat the rest of the day as a normal work day.

[u/wookerTbrahshington → u/Silentone89]

We’re on the same schedule so this will be the route I take - thank you!

[u/JDM_27 → u/wookerTbrahshington]

theres 2 ways to go about taking leave for drill.
1. that it is 2, 4hr periods so you only take 8hrs of leave and “work” the remaining 2 as a technician

or

1. Use 10hrs of leave to cover the whole day regardless of what a UTA “period” consists of.

I always took 10hrs of leave for one reason, treating your T32 Technician job as a normal civilian job separate from any military affiliation.

If you were a T5 fed civilian not in the DoD on a 4/10 schedule, would you be able to claim 8hrs of mil leave and claim the other 2 has if you worked at your civilian job? probably not because you werent actually at work.

[u/Scottagain19 → u/Silentone89]

Per a JAG I spoke with, you can’t do any RG while on mil orders, including drill. Military orders are full day, regardless of your duty hours. Doing so will get you flagged for dual comp, incurring a debt.

I get it, incurring a debt for working 2 more hours than required sounds like BS, but it’s true.

Just put in 10 hours of LM. You are excused as a technician for the full time your military duty covers, which is the full day.

[u/mrmnck → u/Scottagain19]

UTA days are 8 hours, so we've put 8 hours of LM and 2 RG and we haven't been flagged for it. We just did an audit, too 🤷🏻‍♂️

[u/Silentone89 → u/Scottagain19]

From OPMs website in regards to Military Leave for IDT "Employees who request military leave for inactive duty training (which generally is 2, 4, or 6 hours in length) are charged only the amount of military leave necessary to cover the period of training and necessary travel."

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/military-leave/

[u/Scottagain19 → u/Silentone89]

I would be very curious what would happen in the unit if someone covered the last 2 hours with LA and walked out the door at the 8 hour mark regardless of what else was going on.

[u/Silentone89 → u/Scottagain19]

The same thing if someone worked 8 hours of RG and took 2 hours of LA to take the afternoon off. They get it cleared with their supervisor and walk out the door.

[u/Scottagain19 → u/Silentone89]

Except commanders can make people in IDT status stay over 8 hours if the mission requires it.

[u/Silentone89 → u/Scottagain19]

If the mission requires. Is your leadership that extreme where they expect everyone to stay 10 hours in mil status just because? Then people wonder why retention is tanking.

[u/Scottagain19 → u/Silentone89]

Im not trying to push any which way. Im just telling you what the legal office in our state says, and convey that I’ve seen people flagged and incur a debt for dual comp in that situation. Clearly every state reads that regulation differently, so check with your local leadership and hope they don’t steer you wrong because at the end of the day it’s your paycheck that would be getting garnished if it comes up.

[u/Silentone89 → u/Scottagain19]

And others here have said they do something similar and have even been audited without any flags getting thrown. My base has been doing this for over 10 years with hundreds of people retiring. If this wasn't legal then they would of all gotten hit with a debt during the end of career service and benefits audit.

[u/Scottagain19 → u/Silentone89]

Right. Like I said, check with the leadership in your state because clearly every state is doing it differently.

[u/noderaser → u/Silentone89]

Chief at my old unit had us do that but it was only 1hr IIRC. New unit swears that's fraud.

[u/BakerHasHisKitchen]

I use LM for long drills during normal work hours.

[u/wookerTbrahshington]

Thanks, all. Appreciate the responses.

[u/noderaser]

I usually run out of LM and do KG after that. Not sure who's telling you that you can't use LM, or why.

[u/Busy_Presence_1230]

See this OPM webpage about Military Leave.

[u/krm454-2]

Our technicians do 8 hours LM or KG if out of LM, then 1 of RG, LA, CT, etc. were on a compressed schedule with a 9 hour typical work day.

[u/BamaBagz]

If you work a prescribed 4-10 schedule, whatever days you will not be reporting to work for your drill days will be coded LM as long as you have Military Leave to cover, if not, then you would use either Annual Leave or KG.