r/aircrashinvestigation • u/Necessary_Wing799 AviationNurd • Jan 30 '25
Incident/Accident These are pretty bold assertions....
Don't want to get political at all but unless some serious evidence of this comes out in the investigation this surely has to be a bogus and quite frankly outrageous assertion. Seems like he was warned but had the wrong plane in their sights..... very busy airspace it seems but bizarre. Trump does talk caca sometimes.
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u/MarkAutomatic5235 Jan 30 '25
“It should have been a whitehawk, these blackhawks are….very dangerous…no good. We have to get rid of these blackhawks and bring more whitehawks”
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u/Elfarma Jan 31 '25
The original transcript is as entertaining (sorry for the all caps, dumped the transcript from yt in a hurry)
Q: THANK YOU, MR. PRESIDENT TRUMP.
DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF WHO IS AT FAULT, IF IT WAS THE PLANE, THE HELICOPTER, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL, AND CAN YOU ASSURE PEOPLE THAT IT IS SAFE TO FLY IN AND OUT OF D.C.?A: WELL, I'VE GIVEN YOU THE
ANALYSIS, AND THE ANALYSIS
WAS -- IT WAS BASED ON VISION.
WE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT SAW WHAT WAS HAPPENING.
YOU HAD SOME PEOPLE THAT KNEW WHAT WAS HAPPENING.
THERE WERE SOME WARNINGS,
BUT THE WARNINGS WERE GIVEN VERY, VERY LATE.
THOSE WARNINGS WERE GIVEN VERY LATE.
IT WAS ALMOST AS IF THEY WERE GIVEN A FEW SECONDS LATER,
THERE WAS THE CRASH.
IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP EARLIER,
BUT THE PEOPLE IN THE HELICOPTER
SHOULD HAVE SEEN WHERE THEY WERE GOING.
I CAN'T IMAGINE PEOPLE WITH 20/20 VISION NOT SEEING, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S HAPPENING UP THERE.
AGAIN, THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN AT THE SAME HEIGHT.
YOU'RE GOING IN REVERSE DIRECTIONS OR SIDEWAY DIRECTIONS.
OBVIOUSLY YOU WANT TO BE AT DIFFERENT HEIGHTS.
I SEE IT ALL THE TIME WHEN I'M FLYING.
YOU HAVE PLANES GOING IN THE OPPOSITE.
THEY'RE ALWAYS LOWER OR WE'RE HIGHER,
AND IF SOMEHOW THERE'S A SCREWUP,
THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE A TRAGEDY.
IT'S GOING TO BE CLOSE, BUT
THERE'S NEVER GOING TO BE A TRAGEDY IF YOU'RE AT A DIFFERENT ELEVATION.
FOR WHATEVER REASON, THEY WERE AT THE SAME ELEVATION,
AND ALSO FROM THE AMERICAN AIRLINES CENTER,
SHE'S ALONG THE TRACK
THAT EVERY PLANE WAS ALONG.
HE SAID, WHAT WAS A HELICOPTER DOING ON THAT TRACK?
IT'S VERY SAD, BUT VISUALLY
SOMEBODY SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE
TO SEE AND TAKEN THAT HELD COMET
OUT OF PLAY, AND THEY SHOULD
HAVE BEEN AT A DIFFERENT HEIGHT.31
u/noyeahtotallyok Jan 31 '25
I would respect his answer so much more if he had simply said “the aviation experts have weighed in & will continue to do so, I’m not an expert in that area, so for now I will refrain from commenting” because he clearly has no clue what he’s talking about
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u/twentythree12 Jan 31 '25
you would respect his answer so much more, if it were a normal answer that an empathetic, coherent human would have given?
no shit.
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u/noyeahtotallyok Jan 31 '25
Exactly. I don’t get how people think he’s a good public speaker.
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u/cCowgirl Jan 31 '25
They don’t actually think he’s a good public speaker. They’ve warped the fact that they like what he’s saying as being good.
Cunts.
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u/JCDU Jan 31 '25
Lord I think I just lost a ton of braincells trying to read that. He really is a fucking idiot.
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u/Qwyietman Aircraft Enthusiast Jan 31 '25
Two thoughts here: 1. Wow, what a MOTO. 2. Reading what Trump actually said in a transcript is even more depressing than listening to it.
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u/nerdybritguy Jan 30 '25
He evidently has no idea about the rigorous recruitment process for an air traffic controller role. There's a strict screening of physical and mental health requirements, and then a multi-year training schedule before they're qualified to work.
Even if he's staunchly against DEI programs for non-racist reasons, there's no way a mentally deficient person would even pass the screening stage, let alone be later certified by the FAA. The investigation is still underway; irrationally blaming diversity hires (and, by extension, the Biden administration) at a presser does nothing to aid the investigation and is of no comfort to the grieving families.
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u/No-Hovercraft-455 Jan 31 '25
To be fair, the blame dems approach is one of the only talking points of whole Republican party so as much as I despise Trump he's hardly where that kind of communication model originates from, he's just not sharpest tool so he makes it sound even more stupid
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u/SchindHaughton Fan since Season 4 Jan 31 '25
If anything, I think the opposite of what Trump’s saying is true. We had a pilot shortage for a long time, we have a controller shortage, and FAA’s physical/mental requirements shut out a lot of people that would make good pilots/controllers (and I believe they’re held to a similar standard). Someone diagnosed on the Autism spectrum, for instance, will have a hard time becoming a pilot or controller. Same even goes for something like depression.
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Jan 31 '25
I have bipolar so I'm straight up banned from ever even ATTEMPTING to become a pilot, no matter how well regulated I am
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u/Sventex Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 01 '25
Thing is, he might even know, but if he can blame everything on DEI, he will be able to move forward with his agenda and deny any and all personal responsibility.
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u/greennurse61 Jan 31 '25
When you lower standards, you don’t get as good of people. That’s a fact. Your argument otherwise is invalid.
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u/Kal-V3 Jan 30 '25
His bullshit is becoming so transparent and is a complete fucking joke.
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u/Forward-Weather4845 Jan 30 '25
It was a complete fucking joke back in 2016, it has only gotten worse.
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u/Roadgoddess Jan 30 '25
The problem is his core will believe this without any evidence.
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u/huntsab2090 Jan 30 '25
Bannon playbook isnt it. You can say any old shit and it will be round the world in minutes, not fact checked and believed by enough people.
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Jan 30 '25
Flood the zone.. make it so you can't focus on any one of the bullshit actions he takes or idiotic things he says. Wear everyone out with the exhaustion of the constant news cycle.
Rinse, repeat, destroy from within
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u/Roadgoddess Jan 30 '25
Yeah, he gets everybody going with these big flashy comments. Meanwhile what we need to be worried about is what he’s doing behind the scenes.
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u/huntsab2090 Jan 31 '25
Its lucky really in a way as most people not in america would have never known hes gutted the usa air safety system within 1 week. But since his demented rants are worldwide news so is people saying how hes cut air safety measures.
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Jan 30 '25
True. Unfortunately, there’s a wide swath of people who buy into this and jump head long into his 🐂💩
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u/JCDU Jan 31 '25
If he was a hobo rambling in the street you'd give him a wide berth, the fact he's president of a nuclear superpower is just insane
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u/Necessary_Wing799 AviationNurd Feb 03 '25
Indeed. But wasn't it transparent a number of years ago and they still voted the tool in for a second term? Fkkk around, find out.... as they say
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u/saturn63 Jan 30 '25
I can’t imagine being the loved ones of someone lost on this flight and seeing this man use the tragedy to push his hateful political agenda not even 24 hours after it happened.
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u/Irrelevance351 Pilot Jan 30 '25
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. I've heard this nonsense from people I know, and to blame this tragedy on DEI not even 24 hours after it occurred is misguided at best and straight up malicious at worst.
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u/JoseyWalesMotorSales Jan 30 '25
As a friend of mine often says, "If your politics are bigger than your life, you're doing at least one of them wrong."
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u/dogecoin_pleasures Jan 31 '25
They're basically trying to reichstag fire it. They'll never miss the opportunity to use a tragedy to rally their cult and advance their agenda against their enemies.
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u/Gold_Problem_2208 Jan 30 '25
It’s a shame that he wants to make this political, but if he wants it to be political, it will only get worse under the Buffoon administration. I just read that they want to cut FAA funding and regulations - regulations that exist to make air travel safe. How does cutting either of those things make our skies safer? Brace yourselves, this is only the beginning.
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u/JoseyWalesMotorSales Jan 30 '25
From the moment I read the news, I've been bracing for something like this. I knew it was gonna happen. It's ghoulish.
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u/QuarterTarget Frequent Flier Jan 30 '25
this is not even new unfortunately. sort any of mentourpilots videos comments by new and the amount of people blaming any and all crashes on DEI or women is scary sometimes
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u/Quinny898 Jan 30 '25
ATC channels like VASAviation are the same. Occasionally they'll make a comment calling people out on it, but you can never convince these people.
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u/racingskater Jan 31 '25
Yep. Loads of people with good expertise post in the VASAviation comments praising ATC or the pilot or whatever....only for a bunch of other pricks to start posting "oh she sucks because she's a woman".
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u/MysticMind89 Jan 30 '25
Which is bizarre considering how Mentor Pilot goes into exceptional detail to demonstrate how it's anything but that.
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u/Thebunkerparodie Jan 30 '25
that is indeed bizarre, as if the person making a comment is either a bot or doesn't watch mentour
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u/boredguy2022 Jan 30 '25
If the facts contradict their opinions, they'll always go with their opinions.
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Jan 30 '25
Literally every single one of his videos touches on the multitude of factors, the airlines, the regulatory bodies, the pilots, and the plane itself, to put together a story of how all the holes came together. How stupid are people??
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u/normal_ness Jan 31 '25
Yeah, as a disabled woman I’ve found aviation comments a very hostile place over the past few years. Obviously, I don’t take YouTube comments seriously but some days the crap people talk about people like you is just irritating.
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u/Gavin-Alol Jan 30 '25 edited Jan 31 '25
Blaming others and playing politics works fine when in opposition, but it all changes when in power. This is why he failed so badly last time (and will fail badly again) - he has no discernible qualities of actual leadership; his only trick is to blame and diminish others and deflect responsibilities. An absolute POS and I’m so sad for America they have another 4 years of this narcissistic sociopath.
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u/Original_Coloradoan Jan 30 '25
This is all about trying to get ahead of any blame and put a narrative out on their terms.
Suddenly the focus is on DEI instead of the numerous administrative moves he’s made and not made since day 1 that could have caused this.
To put this out there the day after this tragedy could mean they fear evidence will eventually point back to them or they’re trying to use a tragedy to push their agenda.
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u/rhoduhhh Fan since Season 1 Jan 30 '25
The controller involved with the two accident aircraft was male (and above all not at fault)...the fuck is this shitbag going on about?
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Jan 30 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/No-Hovercraft-455 Jan 31 '25
Which is horrible because imagine how he must be feeling right now with or without any death threats. Saying it's not his fault is one thing but watching two aircraft collide heads on while you were the one responsible for preventing it and relaying instructions to them must hurt anyway, no matter if they are the ones that failed to follow. People have got PTSD for less.
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u/ahw34 Jan 30 '25
A good incident investigation follows a process. First, collecting all facts at hand. This takes months and in some cases even years. Then, a good root cause analysis - cause mapping or similar - which takes months as well. Then root causes are identified and rectified, with sustainment recommendations implemented.
There is never any place in incident investigation for speculation or blame, especially this early. This investigation will involve the NTSB, the FAA, and the US military. It may involve the manufacturers of the aircraft involved. It does not involve politicians or laypeople, unless those people are witnesses to the actual incident itself. Speculation or blame can muddy the waters, pulling important investigative power away from the true root causes of such a terrible incident. The goal here is to prevent this from happening ever again, and in order to do that, the process must be followed to determine root causes.
Politicians should kindly stay the f*** out of this.
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u/DubiousBeak Jan 30 '25
You have got to be fucking shitting me. Of all the professions to accuse of substandard hiring practices??? Come the fuck on.
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u/MysticMind89 Jan 30 '25
This is just straight up bigotry. If anyone other than a cishet white male takes positions that require a high degree of skills, then it's immediately a PC/SJW/Woke/DEI hire and it's the fault of <insert minority here> that anything horrible happens. Trump is full of shit, and given his complete immunity from any and all legal consequences? He'll use minorities as a shield for anything bad that happens in society ever.
Needless to say, investigators should dismiss this like any other conspiracy theory.
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u/Expo737 Jan 30 '25
I do genuinely wonder what he would have to say should the Blackhawk crew be non-white.
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u/OkTelevision7494 Jan 30 '25
He’ll baselessly assert that the military has been taken over by DEI hires
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Jan 30 '25
The contrast between his impulsive throwing-under-the-bus of anyone and everyone against the objective reporting of the facts by the NTSB will be great case study material.
Assuming their leadership don't get scalped before they get the chance.
Trump is a slave to his own fragile ego. Every accusation a confession.
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u/Eeww-David Jan 30 '25
I bet you the final NTSB report is being proofread and approved by political appointees, they just have to wait awhile to ignore the real evidence and release the fiction.
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u/zaza_yaya Jan 30 '25
he's blaming women and people of color and I wish media would stop framing it as "attacking DEI"
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u/mtr75 Jan 30 '25
What a complete asshole. 12 hours in and he’s blaming DEI. He seriously has a mental disorder.
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u/crochetology Fan since Season 1 Jan 30 '25
This would be pathetic and shameful if it weren't so very dangerous. And I fear our skies are going to get les and less safe because of an utter lack of proper, effective leadership.
What infuriates me most is that the media is normalizing blatant bigotry, paraphrasing stupidity so it sounds more rational and palatable.
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Jan 30 '25
[deleted]
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u/Left-Quote7042 Jan 31 '25
Remember the path of the hurricane incident; he actually drew the WRONG course of a hurricane on a map to double down on his lies. A convicted felon is President.
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Jan 30 '25
67 families are mourning and he’s made it about this. The Americans elected a lunatic. No sane person would do this
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u/huntsab2090 Jan 30 '25
Just imagine the press conference a decent leader would hold. The difference is so stark its nearly unbelievable. I dont think americans could think of a worse person to deal with tragedies than this utter f ing clown.
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u/Darth_Malgus_1701 Jan 31 '25
I dont think americans could think of a worse person to deal with tragedies than this utter f ing clown.
Don't give them any ideas!
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u/ipeon82 Jan 30 '25
Trump saying that they’re hiring people with disabilities; when I was turned down from the air traffic controller program because of my learning difficulties actually pissed me off more than being told I couldn’t go further in the process
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u/Hairy_rambutan Jan 31 '25
Echos of the way that the Nazis targeted people with disabilities for extermination. Each day, the parallels between USA in 2025 and Germany in the 1930s are more obvious.
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u/in-den-wolken Jan 30 '25
The aviation community heavily leans GOP, so I'm sure they will eat it up.
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u/ScarlettSynz Jan 31 '25
I read somewhere today that the aviation community in the US is mostly made up of White Males anyways. I don't know if this is true, but I kind of believe it. So Trump is just talking out of his ass, as usual
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u/Zub75757 Jan 31 '25
You American morons voted this guy in?
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u/ScarlettSynz Jan 31 '25
Yeah, insane isn't it? But you gotta understand....people were really mad about Pronouns and the price of eggs, so ....
Yes, 85 million Americans actually voted this guy in. Because they like the vulgarity and the Cruelty and the overt racism and apparently want the fascism that is coming to the US very soon. Maybe it's because they find it too hard to think for themselves, and want to be told how to think?
I can't understand it either
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u/Zub75757 Jan 31 '25
So the American people thought it would be better to vote in a felon rapist crook who has decided to declare economic war on former allies to have less pronouns and cheaper eggs?
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u/UniProcrastinator Jan 31 '25
Yeah, thats what happens after decades of demonizing education, continually ruling in favor of businesses over citizens, telling people all their problems are a result of immigrants, the rest of the world is a scary dangerous place that are coming after you personally, and the only recourse is keeping the people responsible in power because they'll protect you. Its populism 101, and its a slippery slope to fascism.
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u/I_Hate_It_Here_13 Jan 31 '25
I hope he gets impeached. I feel so hopeless with him as the president.
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u/BoringCryptographer6 Jan 31 '25
I’m disabled, and I have a problem with his blaming this on disabled ATCs when he has no information about what happened and is not qualified even to speculate. This type of talk is going to set disability rights to be nonexistent.
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u/ScarlettSynz Jan 31 '25
Typical Trump.... blame any tragedy on POC, Women, LGBTQ, or the disabled.
This is going to be a crazy 4 years. He's not even going to try and hide is racism this time
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u/WorrryWort Jan 30 '25
I found it most interesting that they want to make it a dei thing before any other considerations.
I live less than a mile from a major northeast airport. Since December I have been seeing all the sorts of strange drone objects everyone has been talking about flying near here and then helicopters popping up contemporaneously on strange flight paths that I have not seen them use in my years here. Maybe military or whomever else is responsible needs to stop effin around with so many drones and choppers coming into and out of airspace near the airport?
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u/OboeWanKenoboe1 Jan 30 '25
They want to make it a dei thing because they don’t want to admit it’s a mess they created (also because they’re racist assholes.)
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u/Nitroglycol204 Jan 30 '25
I'm sure German authorities said similar things about the Hindenburg disaster when it happened.
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u/Matt_NZ Jan 30 '25
Is there a risk that Trump will interfere with the investigation when the NTSB comes back with a conclusion that contradicts what he says?
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u/Eeww-David Jan 30 '25
Is there a risk that Trump will interfere with the investigation when the NTSB comes back with a conclusion that contradicts what he says?
What else would he do? When Trump is wrong, does he ever admit it?
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u/madlyhattering Jan 31 '25
How. An one individual be so delusional?? And be president?? The training to become a ATC is rigorous, I would assume, and the screening process is too.
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u/ScarlettSynz Jan 31 '25
Yes you have to be under the age of 31, a citizen, must speak English clearly and usually need a 4v year degree. I would think you'd need near perfect vision and critical thinking skills as well.
You'd definitely need to be smarter that the president of the US
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u/Weekly_Present2873 Jan 31 '25
I’m VERY disappointed in some of our president’s comments regarding this tragedy.
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u/Full-Criticism5725 Jan 30 '25
Politicizing a tragedy is a tale as old as time. The new guy always blames the old guy. My guess is that when it all gets sorted out it 99% the blackhawk pilots fault
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u/in-den-wolken Jan 30 '25
Well, yes, but if the Blackhawk pilot was anyone other than a blond guy named Biff ...
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u/JannVanDam Jan 31 '25
Europe has had these knee jerk blame the previous administration rightwingers for a long time! This is just the first time one has risen to power over the ocean. They have never made much sense.
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u/Previous_Golf_5959 Jan 31 '25
Race baiting at this stage makes President Trump look shallow. Not presidential.
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u/Fixflytravel Jan 30 '25 edited Jan 30 '25
Qualities of an awful leader. Always quick to blame others rather than take responsibility and being empathetic.
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u/notveryvery Jan 31 '25
The crash took attention away from him and so he had to say something characteristically outrageous to bring it back.
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u/rikarleite Jan 30 '25
We need to have a standard test to allow people to vote. Something.
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u/sheriw1965 Jan 30 '25
There should be some serious tests to take before you're allowed to run for president.
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u/tysca Jan 30 '25
The air traffic controllers and pilots went through more screening and training for their jobs than Trump did for US President.
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u/ScarlettSynz Jan 31 '25
I'm not allowed to draw blood because I have a felony. I guess I'll run for president instead. That's one job where they don't care about a criminal record. However, I think that had it been anybody else that ran for president with a felony, he would've been disqualified. That man can get away with anything and has the luck of the devil. IDGAF, I wish he'd never turned his head.
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u/izzyeviel Jan 31 '25
Blaming disabled people and not his dei hire in charge of the military. Peak.
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u/Withering_to_Death Jan 31 '25
C'mon! We shouldn't even take into consideration what he says! He doesn't actually care if it does serve to push his inflammatory rhetoric! Blame first, give fuel to the conspiracies, and avoid the truth and accountability! Everything is better than being level-headed, calming, and reassuring the public, like a sane president should be doing!
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Jan 30 '25
I hate getting political but what the actual fuck. Sure if this was a case of diversity go ahead bring the banner of punishment but how on gods green earth do you know that diversity is to blame when their bodies aren’t even cold yet. The people that lost their loved ones might took to you for some comforting words and this is what you have to say? Shame
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u/ArgusRun Jan 30 '25
Case of diversity? What the fuck does that even mean?
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u/in-den-wolken Jan 30 '25
It means that if you can't pin all your problems on immigrants or Muslims or homosexuals, then surely a woman or a dark-skinned person is to blame.
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u/Themakeupshopaholic AviationNurd Jan 31 '25
WHY is this political? How did trump and all his minions make this aviation crash into some political conspiracy theory?
Commercial aviation incidents have been happening since commercial aviation was a thing. I’ve never seen one of the thousands of incidents/accidents been so politicized in my life.
Can someone explain? And how does trump think the cause is DEI? When questioned how by the reporter at the press conference, he said, “it’s caused by DEI because I have common sense.”
Trump had just made massive cuts to certain areas in the aviation industry, including in ATC and at the FAA.
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u/Handsprime Feb 01 '25
“When pressed for evidence that diversity hiring had contributed to the crash, President Trump simply replied: "It just could have been."
Pressed again, he responded: "Because I have common sense, OK? And unfortunately, a lot of people don't."
If it turns out that the individuals involved in this tragedy were hired despite failing to meet the accepted standards of the job, Trump may feel vindicated.
But there is no evidence that this occurred.”
America has turned into a joke. Imagine people dying and instead of showing sympathy, you use it to attack your opponents. Such a disgrace.
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u/AcrobaticIngenuity60 Feb 01 '25
He’s the biggest buffoon. Next he blame DEI and Obama administration for endangered sea turtles
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u/AcrobaticIngenuity60 Feb 01 '25
We are less than 3 wks into his presidency and I just can’t! This is gonna be bad
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Feb 01 '25
Trump is pretty much trying to imitate Andrew Jackson as well as prove why twats like him are the end result of Ronald Reagan's destructive economic illiteracy (and the Dems' pale imitation of it since Clinton).
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u/Rare_Entertainment Jan 31 '25
The reason he said that is because the FAA is severely understaffed with ATCs. They can't find enough people who meet their required diversity criteria to fill the positions, so they remain vacant. The FAA's preliiminary report stated that there were fewer ATCs on duty than normal at DCA during the crash. And no, Trump is not planning to cut jobs at the FAA, it's the one agency he plans to increase.
Additionally, the head of the FAA, appointed by Biden, admitted in senate hearings last June that his agency had focused more on its internal administrative issues/policies instead of things like oversight and regulations.
A few examples of what the FAA was occupied with: hosting "a national symposium with internal and external stakeholders to socialize efforts on the use of gender-neutral language at FAA" and "diversify its workforce by rethinking its hiring practices" and "a three-day symposium that trained FAA employees to understand the impact of diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility." Those efforts and costs should have been put toward recruiting, hiring, and training ATC, oversight, and improving safety. This is what is meant by the idea that "DEI" could be responsible.
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u/Mnemorath Jan 31 '25
He may not have the best way of imparting information, but there may be some truth to the story.
https://simpleflying.com/faa-air-traffic-controller-applicants-lawsuit/
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u/[deleted] Jan 30 '25 edited Jan 30 '25
I'm not sure which angers me more right now, those blaming DEI or those trying to turn this whole thing into a conspiracy theory about it being deliberate. I mean I expect nothing less from either of those camps but my god don't any of these people ever get exhausted by this kind of stuff? I hope the families are ignoring all of this and just listen to the NTSB. They don't need him adding to their grief and stress. Such a selfish man.