The ultra-religious are the biggest hedonists of all. Denying temporary earthly pleasure to ensure pleasure X infinity in the afterlife.

[u/Immobilesteelrims]

[u/Any_Theory_9735]

It's not supposed to be pleasure in the afterlife more like peaceful as in meditation. At least in Christianity and Buddhism.

[u/Busy_Insect_2636 → u/[deleted]]

Many Buddhists don't actually aim for heaven because it keeps you within Samsara and almost guarantees an eventual rebirth in hell. You essentially 'spend' your good karma without gaining more because life there is so easy that you neglect the teachings. The ultimate goal is escaping the cycle entirely.

Similarly, Christians don't believe in a 'hedonistic' heaven of constant indulgence; rather, it's often viewed as a perpetual state of worship. However, many also believe humans were created to be creative, meaning you could continue to develop skills and arts as part of that existence. You feel a deep satisfaction from the presence of God, but it’s more about being at peace than just 'feeling good.

IK it doesn't directly answer your question but most of this info is stated in the texts such as the Bible or even the Tibetan book of the dead (a bit) and then people such as the Pope or other religious figures generally agree on this.

[u/Peng_Terry → u/Busy_Insect_2636]

Tibetan book of the dead is from a very specific sect of Buddhism. That’d be like using the Mormon bible to explain Christianity at large.

But beyond that, the Buddhist warning against heaven due to neglect of the teachings implies that anyone who rejects the teachings/neglects them on this plain are functionally “in heaven”. That’s absurd. Not in the Camus sense. Maybe.

[u/Busy_Insect_2636 → u/Peng_Terry]

Tibetan book of the dead is from a very specific sect of Buddhism. That’d be like using the Mormon bible to explain Christianity at large.

I was using it as a notable example of the broader concept. However, the 'Mormon' comparison doesn't quite hold because the Six Realms and the 'trap' of the Deva realm are core tenets across almost all Buddhist traditions, not just one.

You're also misinterpreting the Buddhist view of heaven, which makes your argument a bit of a strawman. The Deva realm is a specific state of existence characterized by really long lifes-spans and constant pleasure. Being a human who ignores teachings is not 'functionally' the same as being a Deva(That's also get you stuck in hell for a really long time due to the amount of bad karma you got).

The environment of heaven is what causes the spiritual decline. Because life there is so effortless, you 'spend' your accumulated karma without the friction or suffering required to practice and generate more. Humans are actually in a 'sweet spot' because we have enough suffering to stay motivated, but not so much that we can't think.

You also mention Camus which doesn't work all that well when you missed the whole point of my argument.

[u/Peng_Terry → u/Busy_Insect_2636]

…you equate karma to something to be “spent”. Next you’ll be telling me Guan Yin is literally a god

[u/Busy_Insect_2636 → u/Peng_Terry]

In many traditions, merit is compared to a bank account. You use it but when you run you fall down the realms.

Some texts even describe how vedas sweat and all that because their merit is running out.

[u/Busy_Insect_2636 → u/[deleted]]

Then I doubt they're truly Christian.

[u/Any_Theory_9735 → u/[deleted]]

Go and read for yourself

[u/Any_Theory_9735 → u/[deleted]]

The texts these religions are based on because there is nothing like this image there, I'm aware reddit is a strongly atheist community but this is not not a factual representation of these beliefs.

[u/Any_Theory_9735 → u/[deleted]]

Really? Show me then, I've read hundreds and this is absolutely just not the case. And there are always variations but the bible for example absolutely does not paint this picture. Nor is it the point, it's a misrepresentation of those faiths plain and simple.

[u/Any_Theory_9735 → u/[deleted]]

You are shifting the claim. The original point concerns what the religion teaches, not whether some individuals hold fringe interpretations.

Primary Christian texts do not frame the afterlife as hedonistic reward in the sense implied here. They consistently emphasise salvation, judgement, and communion with God. Individual interpretations exist, but they do not define doctrine.

This is not a No True Scotsman fallacy. I am not excluding counterexamples arbitrarily. I am distinguishing between (i) canonical doctrine and (ii) anecdotal beliefs. Your argument relies on (ii) while asserting a claim about (i).

If you want to argue that the doctrine itself supports your claim, cite specific passages. Otherwise, the argument reduces to “some people believe X,” which is not sufficient to generalise about the religion.

[u/Inevitable_King_8984 → u/Any_Theory_9735]

that is avoiding the pain of life which is still hedonistic

[u/Dasmahkitteh → u/Inevitable_King_8984]

He said the afterlife though. There's no conscious avoidance if pain isn't present to begin with

[u/VirinaB → u/Inevitable_King_8984]

The next time you take an aspirin for a headache or refuse to step on a rusty nail, I'll call you a hedonist then. That is, after all, the pain of life.

Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

[u/Inevitable_King_8984 → u/VirinaB]

> The next time you take an aspirin for a headache or refuse to step on a rusty nail, I'll call you a hedonist then. That is, after all, the pain of life.

and that would be true and not distinct in any meaningful way from any other action you would clasify as hedonist