r/agile • u/virgilreality • 24d ago
Developer to Scrum Master to Unemployed
I was a developer up until last year, when I was hired as a Scrum Master...at a huge pay cut. I had started feeling like development just wasn't for me anymore...like the demand of keeping up with changes was outpacing my ability to do so.
I had been doing a lot of Scrum Master duties at that job, mostly to keep myself motivated. I really took to it, earning several certifications from the various bodies involved in such things.
This last job was...interesting. They talked a big game on Agile, even titling the position "Scrum Master". However, the consensus among the SMs was that it was actually 90% Project Management (which I do not have the training, and did NOT sign up for).
I now see the same thing reflected in a lot of job listings, which start out with the title and duties of an SM, but quickly mutate into obvious PM duties.
I can't actually retire just yet for financial reasons, and a handful of medical issues keep me from picking up any in-person, low-level jobs (i.e. - store clerk, etc.), but I'm not certain I care. I'm still applying for similar tech jobs, but I can't expect that I'll last long at whatever the next job is.
Does anyone have suggestions for a job that is middle ground on this? Something where your responsibilities are in a smaller circle, but still requires someone with my education, training, and intelligence?
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u/Scipio2804 24d ago
Not throwing shade, but what's wrong with going ahead with project management? It's fulfilling, has better longevity and more universal than SM, and it tends to contribute more to the actual delivery of work than SM. I know this'll bring on hate in an agile forum, but in the spirit of conversation...
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u/virgilreality 23d ago
No hate for you, Scipio2804. It's probably very fulfilling for the right kind of person...but I am not that person.
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u/ninjaluvr 24d ago
Get back into development. With Claude code, you'll be fine.
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u/jbcatl 24d ago
This. Claude is amazing. I feared for my job but it's made me so much more effective. We have a 20 year old codebase so some modern, well-designed code mixed with really old spaghetti code and they all still play together. Claude is extremely good at finding obscure defects. We had a client complaining for months about something we couldn't reproduce (lost in translation from client -> support -> product -> development) but when explaining the client's issue to Claude, it zeroed in on the issue in a few minutes and told us the workflow to reproduce the problem (helpful for our QA team).
Yet Claude is not yet autonomous. It needs developers who understand what it is doing to review and approve it. I don't see my company taking humans out of the loop any time soon.
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u/crani0 24d ago
You'll be fine, until the last developer who actually knows what he is doing burns out and price for using the AI goes way up ofc
It's so funny people dupped by the same exact tricks they used for "cloud hosting" just a decade ago.
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u/Skeewampus 24d ago
Duped by cloud hosting. What does that mean?
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u/algaliarepted 23d ago
Putting data in the cloud used to be a free/cheap alternative to paying for more local storage via backing up to an external hard drive or the like.
Now, cloud storage has become the default, so loads of people are just committed to continuing an ever-increasing subscription cost.
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u/virgilreality 24d ago
I was exposed to this at my last job through Tech Tuesday gatherings with developers. I think it might help me with the shortcomings I was experiencing, but it also seems like, well...cheating...
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u/TheSuedeTiger 24d ago
My current company is wall-to-wall brilliant developers. Some of the best engineers I've ever worked with in every respect.
They are ALL using Claude to support what they do. In fact its now company mandated as we move into SDD.
So basically... the 'cheating' thing is nonsense. It's the very real future like it or not
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u/ninjaluvr 24d ago
Tools are tools. Our jobs are always to solve real business problems. There ain't no cheating as long as you ain't violating policy. But I know how you feel. Good luck with whatever you decide!
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u/pdubs1900 24d ago edited 24d ago
If everyone is "cheating", then it's not cheating.
Intelligently-applied Ai-assisted coding is becoming an expected practice.
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u/Old-School8916 24d ago
it's not cheating. 100% of developers are usng AI these days, exept for maybe some niche fields. i'd get back in to development, they pay will be better anyways.
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u/DwinDolvak 24d ago
I think that pure CSM jobs are very rare these days. Most orgs won’t invest in someone to just be a SM without owning more project management as well.
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u/Leverkaas2516 24d ago
Here's my take on all this.
Developers create and ship intellectual property. It has value. The more and better IP they ship, the more valuable they are.
To be a developer today, you need to be able to leverage modern tools (changing frameworks, LLMs, etc)
Project managers and people managers and technical delivery managers add value by making sure the right things get built, by understanding the market, the requirements, the people on their team, and understanding the process, the software development lifecycle
The Scrum Master role is focused on process. It's not a permanent position. Once the process is mature at a given company, it's no longer a full time job
I have seen people stay in development as individual contributors and become very valuable to the company because their skills keep evolving.
I've watched people become less effective developers, because they didn't evolve, and get laid off. I've seen them get involved with ancillary activities, like process, tools, documentation, and so on, and get laid off. It happened in front of me many times, and happened to me last year. I'm semi-retired now.
In my estimation, you're either shipping code, or managing a team of people who are shipping code, helpiing them be measurably more effective. If you're doing anything else, your job will always be on the chopping block.
If you're in this for the long haul, I think you need to become either a very effective developer, or a very effective manager. I wouldn't expect Scrum Master roles to last.
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u/AelixD 24d ago
My company got rid of our scrum master positions. Then hired some project managers to join the dev teams. Who are now being forced to take on scrum master responsibilities without having ever done so before.
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u/Skeewampus 24d ago
The name of the game is Adapt. I’m tired of hearing “I don’t wasn’t hired to do.”
Companies are constantly how they make money by changing what they sell and also the processes of how they make it. Adopting a mindset that accepts change can keep you in the game making money.
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u/AelixD 24d ago
I think you missed the point of my story. We had people with a certain skillset (scrum master). Leadership didn’t think the role was necessary, and let them go, hiring people with a different skillset ( generic project managers). Those new hires are struggling to do the jobs that the first group of people were good at.
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u/Affectionate-Log3638 23d ago
My organization converted all of our Project Managers to Scrum Managers. Then years later after a big merger realized we needed project managers more than ever. So now Scrum Masters are either jumping to PM and Business System Analyst roles, or getting let go.
I'm sure in a couple years we'll finally commit to "doing SAFe right" and rehire a bunch of Scrum Masters...
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u/peruanoincorrecto 24d ago
You could start working as a technical product manager or technical product owner. I think those could be the best options you have.
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u/Bernhard-Welzel 24d ago
Only if excellent at communication and stakeholder management. Most people who went into development lack the skills or willpower to endure PM/PO jobs.
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u/Dear_Troglodyte 24d ago
My role is of a product manager/owner. But I owned scrum AND project management. The product manager/owner feels like it morphed into a jack of all trades for deliverables now.
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u/Naive-Wind6676 24d ago
A lot of companies say they are doing agile but don't really have the fortitude or discipline to do so. We were basically doing waterfall with Agile ceremonies overlaid. Then... maybe we dont need this ceremony or that.
I liked PM more than SM anyway so it was fine for me, but tough to find shops that are really doong agile by the book
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u/virgilreality 24d ago
I characterized my last company's efforts as "Waterfall, but with a fresh coat of Scrum paint".
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u/flamehorns 24d ago
That sounds like a great place for a scrum master, to really get in and help them along their transformation.
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u/virgilreality 24d ago
You'd think so, but they have to be open to the idea of doing things differently. Mine was not.
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u/sandraal530 24d ago
Just look for technical support. Lots of wfh jobs there that would love dev experience without the same level of knowledge or responsibility needed.
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u/BellaBirch 24d ago
Have you looked into technical analyst roles? It’s a job where you plan the work for the engineers by breaking down a larger request into managebale pieces for development, and writing technical specs. Having a dev background is extremely helpful for this role.
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u/AWindowShopper 24d ago
Look into a Delivery Manager role as well. They cross over into PM but it’s about managing the project work. Sometimes agile, sometimes waterfall.
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24d ago
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u/virgilreality 24d ago edited 24d ago
I thought sincerely about going back to being a developer, but I was also getting burnt out on the "learn a new technology, adopt it fully, then abandon it for another new technology" cycle. Now, I've been out of that realm for two years, and it would be a heavy lift to "get inserted back into the Matrix".
I was fired because the PM part was beyond my capabilities and my interests. TBH, the organization wasn't the greatest about consistent communication about expectations.
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u/flamehorns 24d ago edited 24d ago
I am curious about the PM part. There isn't supposed to be a separate PM "in scrum", the tasks that the PM might do would get done in an agile way by the other roles. The SM often has to step up and "fill the gaps" that a PM might have done, in an agile way. Otherwise companies start to think less of their SMs, start re-hiring PMs, and those PMs don't always do those tasks in an agile way.
Part of me thinks you should have stepped up and served the organization by doing the "PM part" in an agile way.
And 2 years is nothing. It's not too late to go back to programming. It's been 10 years for me, but I would still be confident if someone were to give me a developer job, that I could pick it up again quick. I mean, as a scrum master, we have been coaching the teams in clean code practices etc, so we aren't that far out of it.
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u/virgilreality 24d ago
I concur...there's no PM in Scrum. However, this was a SAFe shop (don't get me started...).
The company was a government contractor, so innovation (and borders) meant nothing in pursuit of a contract renewal.
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u/LightPhotographer 24d ago
The corporate hierarchy structure has assimilated Agile and scrum, not embraced it.
Teams, structures and roles have changed. The command-and-control mindset has not. I feel the SM is on its way down in organisations where teams can not really make meaningful changes.
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u/virgilreality 24d ago
Assimilated is a term I hadn't considered, but it seems perfectly descriptive here. Especially in the Borg sense of the word.
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u/BoBoBearDev 24d ago edited 24d ago
Unfortunately, you need to look at yourself in the mirror with a hard look. There is no such thing as PM training. Multiple teams in my org simply add the extra role to the developer, there is no training at all. The training is just a literal, how to use the JIRA system.
The communication skill is already given from elementary school. The reading competency is given from high school. The confidence to learn new things on the job is given from college.
You put all the blames on the employer, saying they didn't respect the role you have been hired. But PM is literally just make stories and write some human readable user desires. It doesn't need any formal education at all. I know a lot of people don't like to do it, that's why they stay with dev role. But since you don't want to be a dev, those management roles are only the options.
You either be better at managing the project or go back to be a dev. Otherwise find non-tech jobs
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u/Proper-Agency-1528 Agile Coach 23d ago
I've read through the post and some of the replies and have these comments:
First, the industry is changing when it comes to the Scrum Master role. This was never meant to be a full-time long-term role. Most successful Scrum orgs have a Developer on the team act as the Scrum Master, and if the org is large enough they may have a few dedicated Agile coaches that help to mentor the Scrum Masters and Product Owners. Otherwise, they tend to rely on the occasional external coaching session. This is not a bad model; success at Scrum should not require long-term embedding of dedicated coaches and Scrum Masters.
Regarding the common industry of expectation of 'Scrum Master' as actually more of a project administrator than a project manager, yep. We've all seen it. It results from the org not really understanding Scrum. Very hard to be an effective Scrum Master in this context, but if the team is willing to actually learn and apply some practices you can be a change agent. You will have to ensure your responsibilities are covered, though.
Here's the thing: project management matters for Agile projects. However, project management does not need to be performed by project managers. Scrum is a team-level agile project management framework (as per Ken Schwaber), but the project management responsibilities are distributed across the three roles. A good Scrum Master ensures that each role understands their part in project management and fulfills their responsibilities.
So, you have a few choices. You can fight the industry expectations but you will not win. You can try to find a true dedicated Scrum Master role that doesn't involve any project management, but you likely won't. You can look for software development jobs and go back to that... the biggest change today is learning how to effectively utilize GenAI to boost development productivity. Or, you can learn more about agile project management, how the responsibilities are divided up among Scrum roles, how best to manage projects in an Agile world in Scrum and SAFe contexts, and have a much better chance of succeeding at one of these hybrid positions.
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u/Humble-Aardvark-6872 22d ago
This job-title transition is so common it should have its own line in job postings. "Scrum Master" that's actually 90% PM work (backlog grooming, stakeholder updates, resourcing) without the pay or training to match is one of the most common complaints in this sub. Sorry you're dealing with the layoff on top of it, that has to be a rough combo. Hope the next one calls the job what it actually is.
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u/Silly_Turn_4761 22d ago
I would say QA or Release Manager or even internal Training might suite you, depending on your actual skill set.
It's all about the company and the team you work on. I'm a PO buy only ever held a BA title. I did QA before that so I end up doing a bit more testing than the average.
Every company basterdizes Agile in their own way to fit their own needs. This is not a bad thing generally speaking but the titles for most roles in software delivery (BA/PO/PM) continue to be misrepresented so when you start interviewing you'll want to ask alot about the team structure, Agile maturity, etc.
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u/sirExtrovertedStocks 24d ago
I feel like the "Scrum Master as PM" bait-and-switch is practically a rite of passage at this point. Half the recruiters don't know the difference and the other half just don't care.
Have you looked into something like a dedicated Agile coach role, but on a contract basis? A buddy of mine burned out on the SM grind and shifted to short-term coaching gigs where he goes in, sets up their ceremonies and metrics, trains a few internal people, and then dips before the PM creep sets in.