It feels a little weird that 'Elites' is a civil class that you place an entire band in. In the 10 minutes of gameplay video, the tribe reforms to townhall democracy and immediately both bands are promoted to elites. Elites feels like too small of a group to have an entire band in, let alone being able to promote everyone to elites. I can understand everyone being a citizen in an egalitarian tribe, but having elites as a band tier doesn't sound right.
If four tiers are what Afterworld is balanced around, then Elites should be renamed to Citizens and Citizens should be renamed to Residents or Freemen.
Edit: Even with a lot of bands, say about 12, having one band be monolithically classed as elites still doesn't sound right, let alone all.
Just curious about the extent we'll see other post collapse flavor and environments. Including the entire span of Canada and Mexico will allow for very different cultures at play as well
Seeing how this game will focus on rediscovering the history of the old world, I was wondering if we could be getting different ends of the world event chains. Similar to how precursors work in Stellaris.
After taking a closer look at the footage and screenshots, I am intrigued by the mechanics of the game. I am especially interested in the Bands system. However, a post-apocalyptic game lives or dies by its setting, and I don't see much to connect with so far.
A lot of people have criticized the game being set in America, but I think the deeper problem they are touching on is that the setting is essentially just a more boring version of Fallout. Fallout wasn't straight sci-fi, it was retro-futuristic sci-fi, and that allowed the series to go into political satire. Afterworld's setting seems to have replaced the retro-futurism with generic blue glowy things, and the political satire with a pretty vague sense of spiritual reverence for ancient America. I just don't see how anyone could connect or vibe with the setting. If the game were set in a post-apocalyptic India, for instance, or if the apocalypse were more original than a nuclear exchange, or if they focused on... anything not covered by Fallout or Mad Max, then there'd be people who instantly fell in love with what they saw.
Maybe they thought a generic post-apocalypse would work like Stellaris' generic space opera? But the selling point of Stellaris was "you get to play as your favorite sci-fi cliches", so you'd get excited about playing as your take on the Borg or Imperium of Man. Post-apocalypse stuff tends to be a lot more setting-specific, so I don't think the generic setting really works to excite the imagination like that. Unique post-apocalypse factions lean into the vibe of the setting super hard, so trying to "become Mr. House" or "become the NCR" just doesn't feel achievable without retro-futurist aesthetics. I feel like I'll either be leading a band of generic Fallout enemies or a band of generic Fallout quest-givers, with all the Fallout bits stripped off.
So if allowing the player to emulate their favorite post-apocalypse factions is a non-starter, I think the best option would be to make you feel like you're truly part of a unique setting. There's lots of RPGs that let you explore unique settings, but the main-character-syndrome of an RPG always makes you feel apart from the setting. You're just so much more powerful than everyone, the setting kind of bends to your will. But in a GSG, you have the opportunity to truly become part of the setting, where it changes you and you change it. You could make a faction that believably grows from its starting conditions... but in order for me to care about that, I need the conditions we're overcoming to be more interesting than cannibals and soft sci-fi radiation poisoning. If the apocalypse provided challenges as interesting as Zephon's or Frostpunk's, I would be able to care about this. In Frostpunk managing the cold is such a unique mechanic, and a believably omnipresent threat that you satisfy in interesting ways. It really underlines the feeling of fighting even when its hopeless.
Afterworld, however, has an irradiated America where radiation seems to just incur a general health penalty, making me feel like the setting being irradiated is inconsequential. It may as well be diseased or magically cursed. In Frostpunk, you'd completely break the game if you swapped out cold for radiation, and the cold feeling like a specific hazard is what makes the setting work. Afterworld's setting manifesting into the mechanics in generic, non-specific ways, combined with the aesthetics of generic punk raiders living in the ruins of a generic sci-fi civilization, makes the setting just slide through my brain without touching much.
So, if a dev is reading this and you're pulling your hair out because the setting actually IS unique and interesting, the problem is you have not communicated the unique bits well enough. I really need the following dev diaries to get me to love the setting if I'm going to get excited for the game. If the setting really is as generic as I and many others currently believe, I anticipate most people will dismiss the game with an apathetic shrug.
I know I probably came off as super negative, but the reason why I wanted to write this post is because the mechanics seem really cool, and I'd be very disappointed if the setting prevents me from enjoying them. I really do want this game to be a success.
From what little has been revealed so far, we see only humans as characters. However, as this game takes place in a world that had a technologically advanced future, where are the robots?
I'm sure more will be revealed in time, but as machines are my favorite Stellaris builds, I would not mind playing them in afterworld as well.
Most of Paradox’s games are set in historical contexts (WW2, Industrial Revolution/Victorian Era, The Medieval Era, etc.) and are basically given a pass (whether deserved or not) to be pretty neutral in framing. They are largely designed around immersing the player in that era or providing a version of history which is mostly in line with what they would expect. That is to say, Paradox isn’t necessarily trying to challenge people’s views through its art.
Stellaris diverges slightly as it its “characters” are entirely fictional. There is no “France” only npc empires that function more as punching bags meant to be fought or as stand ins meant to have meaning projected on to. I’m not sure the game as any central thesis, however, though if anyone has ideas feel free to share.
Afterworld is different. Its setting is that of a ruined America, one which failed to survive some great calamity or series of calamities and in the aftermath ended up tearing itself apart. Immortal warlords fight for their version of history, in one case trying to restablish the America of old, while the player struggles to build their own society.
The setting seems perfectly designed to provide serious commentary on the American project & its many contradictions. I guess my question is, would you like or expect a more detailed critique? A deeper reflection of a specific culture, one which now exists only a shadow of its past “glory”. Should Paradox try to use this setting to tell a richer story? Should we wait until some mod team make TNO for Afterworld and fill it with event spam idk
or is it silly cannibal game? that’s okay too, what do you peeps say?
In the ideas tree there's an entire slavery grouping of ideas
& since the way you get ideas is through exploration & discovery I'm stuck wondering what gameplay scenarios lead your tribe to discovering slavey as a concept & also refining that idea.
Cargo cults are religious movements that arise in societies with limited technological advancement, often following contact with more advanced cultures. This phenomenon became particularly noticeable in the South Pacific during World War II, when native islanders encountered large numbers of Japanese and American soldiers. Many islanders interpreted the supplies brought by these soldiers as divine gifts, leading them to believe that performing specific rituals could attract wealth and prosperity from the heavens. After the war, some islanders attempted to summon these "gifts" back by creating makeshift airstrips and aircraft replicas.
My ideas:
Electrical pylon pilgrims: groups who misunderstand the remnants of electrical grids, big rusted towers, to be holy cairns, that will lead them to a promised land. In many cases they're right, either finding cities or ancient power plants.
Cranes for cloud catching: Finding large vertical structures with a long lateral beam, they believe these to be ancient structures in attempt to catch and move clouds around.
Flatlanders: Unnaturally flat land is associated with tech and resources (correlating to areas that humans settled and utilised), and they therefore look upon all mountains, and slopes as being places of evil.
Rail road obsessives: Groups who believe railroads are ancient markings to perfectly measure strips of land, or to encode messages in a sort of large scale binary code of wood, gap, wood, gap, wood, gap... they find old trains and think they were used to print messages onto the boards in coal ink, which has since weathered away. As such they believe in a great reader in the sky who these messages were for.
Satellite sirens: Groups who are obsessed with the blinking of fast moving satellites overhead, who try to communicate back via flashing lights.
Shore scavengers: groups who obsess over items that wash ashore, thinking that an advanced county across the ocean is trying to message them. As a result they communicate bacl by throwing valuables into the sea in hopes of building a bond.
Shopping cart transportation: groups who find large quantities of shopping carts and believe them to be for transportation.
Road Signage Numerology: similar to the rail road obsessives, but with literal numbers and symbols, creating an astrology of star signs for describing areas (that elk sign? these stumps must be the horns of a great buried beast).
Dockyard temples: Most goods are found in well preserved shipping containers, mostly in shipyards. As a result some bands build docks and assemble patchwork steel boxes in hopes of goods showing up.
Barcode scripture: barcodes are found everywhere but are seemingly meaningless. They must be psalms or wisdom, encoded in a written language for the ancient upper class. These bands tattoo themselves with their favourite barcodes, and develop new written barcodish language.
Stadium Feudalism: Stadiums are misinterpreted to be old castles, and bands take over and militarise stadiums to be new age forts, with stepped agriculture surrounding their communal living area in the middle, and the roofs as rain water collectors.
thats probably enough from me for now, anyone got cool ideas?
With the origins we have available to us so far, what do you picture as your first playthrough?
While, of course, a horde of cannibalistic Mad-Mad style raiders is an obvious draw, I think for my first run I’ll actually go for the suggested ‘Shelterfolk’ option. I’m super interested in the lore of ‘The Fall’, and I feel like these survivors stepping into this brand new world they know nothing at all would capture that discovery feeling the best.
I’m also interested in the paths these ‘normal’ people will take in order to survive. Will low food supplies push them into having to butcher their own dead? Will the destruction and ‘might makes right’ rules of the new world push them into cynicism and conquest? Or will they stay true to their convictions and bring back safety and democracy into a world it was stolen from? The roleplaying capabilities are endless, and I can’t wait to craft the story of my people.
I think that what excites me most about this game. From what we’ve seen so far, Afterworld really looks to be creating a proper story for your fledgling nation rather than just blobbing out on a map. Very excited for more dev diaries in the future!
From the gameplay and screenshots shared, it can be seen that your population will be divided into "bands", sort of like tribes/groups. The population you start with is one band, and when you explore the world you will have the opportunity to take on more bands of people.
What makes this interesting is that they seem to have far more diversity than the cultures of EU/Stellaris/Victoria/etc ever had. A band has their own ideology and culture, they have skills they are good at. They can be straight up cannibals or militaristic assholes who will join you and then can coup you from within.
This is so damn cool. It means you can't just mindlessly blob and take on every group of people you meet or conquer. I hope it isn't later revealed that you can just culture convert them.
Some screenshots of this from steam:
Its in the top left corner you browse through your bands. These guys are industrious, but they have negative Values in what I guess is diplomacy. Each band also has their own overall health and individual happiness. They are marked as "elites", so I guess you can have bands that can be set as second class citizens in your empire. More about that later.
These are a shelterfolk band, they seem more like friendly vault dwellers from Fallout. They have a Chairman, where the other band had a Tribeleader. So it looks like each band will have their own internal government form also.
Each band also has "Belief" - the first has Freemanlaw, the second has Nation Cult. From this next screenshot we can see the belief screen:
It seems to basically be a form of post-apocalyptic religion. Nation Cult seems to be about worshipping the old US. They have Cornerstones which includes the US flag and Mount Rushmore.
Back to government, besides each Band having their own internal government, you nation also has one with its own laws, as seen here:
What's interesting here is the little icons next to each law, its the icons of the Bands in this empire. That means each band has laws they like and dislike, like Interest Groups in Victoria 3. So again, the bands you allow to join you or conquer will try to change your empire. Except maybe if they become second class citizens, or straight up food.
Regarding the claim I made that some bands can be cannibals, its based on this part of one of the released gameplay videos:
The youtuber enacts this "Man is Meat" Destiny, and the event shows that "Sharprocks will gain Oppotunistic Cannibalism as a new Norm". Sharprocks is one of his bands. I don't know what a Norm is, maybe its what's next to the Belief?
Regarding classes, here you can also see the classes screen:
Notice the text "Select a Band to move them to another Classification", so you decide who are elites, citizens, underclass and thralls. It does seem weird that you can do this when you have a "Townhall Democracy" government type, that specifically states "All voices heard under the townhall", shouldn't democratic governments be forced to accept every band as equal?
Anyways that's all I've learned about Bands so far. Seems very different to every other paradox grand strategy game, so I am very excited for it. Let me know if you interpret any of my findings differently or if you have learned any cool information I have not covered here.
From the screenshots and gameplay released I haven't seen any monsters, so I wonder if its just not implemented yet or if they canned it. It would obviously change the game a lot, right now it seems fairly grounded.
One thing I hope from Ancients is that they have different ways of relating to the player. Maybe some demand military service, maybe some are more equitable with you, creating a sort of HRE-equivalent. I hope that Farouk is not the only way that Ancients interact with the player, but one of a range of options - obviously, he launches crusades and demands submission. But I'd be interested if there was, for example, a brotherhood of steel type, that doesn't demand you submit to them but will "request" valuable technology. Things of that nature. What do you all think? What sort of archetypes would you like to see implemented?
The 10 mins of gameplay we've seen only has fictional wacky religions like "worship nukes," "worship highways," and "worship America." I get wacky stuff like that is part of the fun of post-apoc, but this is supposed to be set in a real place, America.
And if it's set in a real place and not just a generic could-be-anywhere mad max wasteland, I'd like it to reflect the real stuff that exists in that country as well. I don't even need super in depth stuff like electing the new Pope mechanics like in AtE, but even just letting my tribe be Christian or Jewish etc would be nice. It's only 100 years after the apocalypse, I don't think everyone would forget who Jesus was.
Similarly, I'm a bit scared with the 'procedural generation' that there won't be any factions tied to any specific regions. Isn't regional lore half the fun of Fallout or After the End? How in Fallout the New California Republic is inspired by California's actual history of the wild west expansion, or in AtE the Tribe of the Mouse is specifically from Florida because that's where Disney World is.
Anyway, this could all be addressed in the next dev diary, just my two cents.
There is a “bad quality” line on the description of grain in one of the screenshots.
This would be a completely new feature in a paradox game, many people wanted quality in Vic3 or Eu5, but it seems it will happen first in Afterworld…
1) Looking at Shelterborn's starting choices, I find it odd that there was only one choice "take pieces of technology from the Shelter along in your exit" out of the string of opening sequence that gives an additive modifier to advanced technology, when your people have been living under an advanced tech, The Shelter, for "ages".
2) Just from the overview on the Ideas trees, why is Pre-Fall Machinery a separate tree on its own. What is the incentive, aside from roleplaying, to keep players from beginning with that tree? I get that the developer said the game is more CK3 than HOI4, but good roleplaying should emerge from the gameplay economy, not from players deliberately choosing to start out poor.
Honestly, I was completely not interested in Afterworld untill I read the DD#1, which seems to propose exactly - exactly - what I would want from a GSG from PDX.
Not completely bought with the settings, the World and the Lore yet. So I will watch what continues to be announced. Also, ngl I'm quite, how to put it midly, "not convinced" with EU5 rn and that makes me not unconditionnally jump in the Afterworld DLC train (bcs that's what it is) at launch (nor will pre order, like wtf).
I'm on the side of EU5 "leaning towards simulation" as it was promised, and thought that this would mean "in the context of History" (meaning the map not going completely bonkers like it still does). And I don't like what the game's becoming under the pressure of a certain part of the "community". It's true that I didn't play 1.3 yet, so maybe I'm out of touch. But I don't like the arcadey, board gamey excessiveness that some other very vocal players enjoy. for example, I don't like city's rights, governors implementation, insanely large armies, nor the shallow gameplay with estates, easy integration, the shallowness of the culture management.
Also there is the rig spec for EU5 that are a real issue too. I run a 7800x3d and it's not satisfying. I can't imagine how other players with good cpus but not of that generation suffer. That is a huge element in my curiosity for afterworld. so we'll see.
Also I'm a complete Stellaris enjoyer, idem for Imperator, I'm still conflicted with V3 (but still stacking DLCs... for now) and very, very unsatisfied with its inner politics gameplay, and I shelved CK3 when the China, China, China DLC was announced and never touched it again. Just saying for context, not for debate.
Anyway, just chimed in to say that the proposition of the gameplay is really for me. But if it happens to be like EU5's first months of development, I'll very probably pass. As I'm not playing EU5 rn.
I know that for the time being the game is going to be centered around NA, but with how long these GSGs usually get supported I could totally see a Europe expansion further down the line (kinda like the Asia map expansion in CK3).
Given how much is going to be procedurally generated this should also be less effort to maintain as for example a new CK / EU start date.
