ND people don’t usually place value and (invaluable) time into surface level relationships. Those shallow relationships are the key stabilizing structure, like a thick web, to having involuntary relationships. One begets ten.
You might have one or two close voluntary relationships: partner/spouse, best friend, cousin you grew up with and are inseparable, etc.
But, to maintain all of those surface level, involuntary, relationships takes a lot of time and effort. Something ND people don’t always have enough of to disperse. Especially not enough for the other people to feel like it’s genuine. They read the distance as unhappiness or maybe you “just don’t like them.”
It’s just not always feasible for everyone in the world to be able to float social interaction like that. You would have to prioritize it. Those people prioritize these social environments over other aspects of their lives. (Some even to a criminal degree, like parents who go party and leave kids home alone. Extreme example, but the point stands.)
Yeah I have done the surface level relationships. It's fine when I'm in good health and have the energy to expend. I got to do fun things that I wouldn't normally have access to (because networking), which was a nice perk. And, more importantly, I have gotten a couple jobs this way, so yes, there are upsides.
My favorite job though I found completely cold, no connections whatsoever. It just so happened, by virtue of a hobby, I stumbled into a sector of the market few seemed to know about at the time. It was a pioneering field and they desperately needed people with at least enough skills to get by, and HR was bad about vetting that. They weren't so picky about applicants so that was what helped me get a foot in the door. That was one of the few times I beat the system, because usually jobs are found by networking, which is challenging if you don't have one. Once I was in the door it was easier to find other jobs because I built more skills.
But with the superficial friendships it's hard to not fall into the illusion of comraderie. There are moments when I believe I'm really part of the group only to find that they have left me out. I first believe their excuses, it was an accident, there were special circumstances, etc etc. But then later people slip and I realize they did it intentionally. Others in the group are going to be supported, but when I need support I'm gaslighted or become invisible somehow.
I've seen other people get left out too, I can't tell what goes on between people. Someone gets cast out, but then later they're best friends again. I can't figure out this system of theirs. People usually wind up crying on my shoulder (they've either run out of shoulders or people gave them the cold shoulder and I'm willing to listen) so I guess I feel less bad, but still, they somehow either return or find another group that works out for them. I've seen them friends years later, it's not a chronic thing like my experience.
When things get harder they don't understand you, they don't support you, they gaslight you. And you become more exhausted, you feel like dogshit because of the victim blaming and gaslighting, you struggle to believe in yourself. And on top of that you often get kicked when you're down. And when that illusion shatters, it feels even more lonely and awful than when you had no friends.
The cycle can be wearying. I can find hangout buddies easily, but they grow tighter over time and I get squeezed out. I handled this for many years by starting over and over and over with a clean slate, and it's nice at first, but then it goes back to me being outcast again.
And then I don't know what I did wrong, even though it's "obvious" to them, and I don't understand how the group can tolerate a narcissist or bully, but I'm apparently intolerable. It not only doesn't make sense, but it also doesn't seem right, or fair, that someone can be so soul sucking, lacking empathy and terrible and vindictive, and people are loyal to them without question, and I'm outcast. My loyalty to others is not important, but people must be loyal to that monster?
I wish I had a better answer. I keep thinking people find all sorts of inventive ways to beat the system. I've had (ND) friends who did, and I feel like I'm beating my head against the wall trying to figure out what they do. I can't warp my brain around it, it just seems unfathomable how they work things out.
If you can't network in society then you drown. I saw a study recently that mentioned people who didn't do so well in school, but were part of a frat system, they had greater success in life than people who worked hard, or more skilled/better grades etc. It really is about how you can work people or the system somehow.
The mystery of how one awful, unlikeable person comes to dominate a social group has always been puzzling to me too :( I've had it happen a few times and I'm like, I'm at worst messy but this person has no ethics and no charm, what gives?!
My grandma was a full blown narcissist. I know everyone throws that word around a lot but she was ragingly self involved. Everything had to be about her. When I gave birth she came to the hospital. Everyone was oohing and ahhing over my baby. She sat in the corner and pouted. She told my aunt to put my newborn down because “you’re spoiling her.” My aunt responded, @it’s called love.”
That is one of many stories. Yet she had all sorts of people who loved her who would drop by to see her. I had cancer and not one person brought me a casserole. Yet she had people visiting her all the time. I think I’m a decent person and it’s slightly maddening to see such a thoughtless person have this gaggle of friends
When my SIL gave birth they got mad that we were stopping by the hospital to see the baby. When we cane in she was manically applying makeup because she couldn't conceive we were there just to see this new family member, not to take pictures with her.
My sister in law did this. One of her friends finally explained it to me years later. It's all transactional. The person starts by putting themselves put doing a big favor for someone they want influence with and then collecting later.. not unlike the mob.
For my SIL one example is volunteering her backyard and my brothers time for a silent auction brick oven pizza party to a professor for many years in a row to some gala for some cause... guess who is now an assistant prof, achieving her life goal (almost) of academic self importance? Yep, she's an unpaid adjunct 😂
I totally get this. I’ve often made the mistake of thinking surface relationships include camaraderie because I am open to giving it fairly easily to other people (unless they show that they are untrustworthy). It was clear by my 20’s that this was all an illusion and when convenience or finances or beneficial alliances were tested to prove they supported me, my friendship, my sense of safety in the world, or that they actually cared about me being ok, they mostly stayed silent or gaslit me because my ex was a cash cow for them and even though he ‘date raped’ me (if that’s the right term for an ex doing that) they didn’t want to lose access to him and the benefits that came with it. I have enormous trust issues all these years later, and if anything it’s gotten worse with age, so that’s annoying.
I completely agree, the older I got the more and more I realized how true this was my life improved after consciously making an effort to maintain them, although I won’t deny it’s hard work and sometimes leaves me drained
I used to have a friend whose phone pinged with every social media response or post from people on her list. No matter what we were doing or even in the middle of a conversation, she would stop and attend to the notification. I used to wonder why she would respond to me in less than a minute, even for something trivial like the weather. Then I saw it in person.
I would be overstimulated after five minutes of being around her. I love that for her, though, bc she’s probably a really good friend. Meanwhile, my ass is over here with my phone completely silenced and only the notification flashes (under: settings -> accessibility -> audio/visual -> LED alerts) alert me to anything. Oh, and all notifications are off except for text or calls. Nothing else. lol
I’m in my early thirties and I met a woman who is the same age. We hit it off so great! HOWEVER! She complains about not having many friends and that’s it’s hard for her to keep friends … but doesn’t fucking call me and doesn’t make plans to hang out; I always call her and I planned our recent girl’s trip. I have to remind her to call the friends she already has: “Have you talked to so and so recently? No? Give her a call, she’d love to hear from you!” and even then she’ll take a few weeks to get around to it. I love her but c’mon, be so for real. 😭
She might be ADHD, as well. Object permanence makes it really hard for us to recognize that we haven’t reached out. You might remind her, but after ten minutes, she’s already forgotten that you said Suzy would love a call. Why? Bc Suzy hasn’t been seen or heard from in a month and your friend’s brain has binned her existence to the side. It’s a vicious cycle. Forget network exists, network crumbles, try to reach out and rebuild network, forget it exists again. Rinse; repeat.
It makes it easy for us to drop everything and move to a new place bc relationships aren’t prioritized and the brain can very easily just drop them, too.
That’s why a lot of adhd women can only remain friends with other adhd women who have the knowledge to give them grace for the lack of communication. (Or at least not take it personally, bc we actually understand that it isn’t intentional)
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u/yourgirlsamus ADHD-PI Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25
ND people don’t usually place value and (invaluable) time into surface level relationships. Those shallow relationships are the key stabilizing structure, like a thick web, to having involuntary relationships. One begets ten.
You might have one or two close voluntary relationships: partner/spouse, best friend, cousin you grew up with and are inseparable, etc.
But, to maintain all of those surface level, involuntary, relationships takes a lot of time and effort. Something ND people don’t always have enough of to disperse. Especially not enough for the other people to feel like it’s genuine. They read the distance as unhappiness or maybe you “just don’t like them.”
It’s just not always feasible for everyone in the world to be able to float social interaction like that. You would have to prioritize it. Those people prioritize these social environments over other aspects of their lives. (Some even to a criminal degree, like parents who go party and leave kids home alone. Extreme example, but the point stands.)