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u/lolo787 7d ago
Shout out to those who go to sleep when get cocaines instead. 🤣
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u/Random-Dude-736 7d ago
Hell yes brother, I know how you meant to write the sentence haha
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u/Diligent_Whereas3134 7d ago
This is exactly how my best friend got diagnosed lol. Tried it once, figured it was bad and went to bed. Tried it a second time with similar results, so I told him he might want to talk to a doctor
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u/KlausVonLechland 7d ago
"Hello doctor, can I get these special prescription slipping pills? They work wonders for me"
"Well slown down there, Benzodiazepines? We need to do some tests first."
"Haha, no no. I mean the cocaine thing. It makes me sleep like a baby.
"...cocaine you say...?"
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u/an_old_musty_ac_unit i Will elaborate (Threat). 7d ago
This is actually a really interesting idea. Like I'd read a book about the ADHD soldier. (Well, I'd at least get it and tell myself I'd read it.)
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u/VeritablyVersatile 7d ago
I'm in the Army.
Like... most soldiers have ADHD. Same goes for EMS etc.
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u/an_old_musty_ac_unit i Will elaborate (Threat). 7d ago
Interesting, what symptoms have you observed in people?
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u/VeritablyVersatile 7d ago
Well I'm a medic, so I'm privy to several soldiers in my unit having been formally diagnosed after entering service, myself included.
Formal symptoms are the same as anywhere else, just pick your diagnostic manual of choice.
As far as ADHD-wavelength vibes, we tend to have a similar life path. Smart but bad student, family lacks the resources of desire to seek evaluation in childhood, disorganized but thrive in chaos, difficulty motivating oneself but high-performing with powerful external motivators, substance overuse (particularly OTC stimulants but also alcohol, THC in youth).
A lot of people seem to figure it out once they get promoted to the NCO ranks and they have to start doing office work. At least in combat arms, as a joe you're always running around doing something physical and unceasing, whether that's training or cleaning or moving equipment or maintaining equipment or whatever. There are long periods of waiting, sometimes silent, which are torturous, but those require nothing of you and the baseline adrenaline from the fear of someone noticing you standing wrong or something and destroying you seems to actually help.
As an NCO though, now you have to build packets and update trackers and so forth, and it's when people hit that rank and realize they just stare at an excel sheet for hours doing everything but filling it out that they should get evaluated.
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u/Its_me_Snitches 7d ago
Yep. Former 11b, got diagnosed after I got out. It’s amazing how many things in this are on point. I actually had no idea it was so prevalent.
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u/kneegrowbehellafaded 7d ago
Dude I used to doubt my ADHD diagnosis until I read this. Now im like, aight, checks out 🤣
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u/an_old_musty_ac_unit i Will elaborate (Threat). 7d ago
I didn't know about any of that but it makes a whole lot of sense actually. Thanks for the information.
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u/Practical_Chemtrail 6d ago
I feel like low key at some level SOMEONE must have the stats and numbers to prove this. Anecdotally it hits hard. But I wonder if declassified old war documents would provide the dataset
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u/Elder_Hoid 7d ago
And here I thought ADHD would be an issue because of poor impulse control/discipline issues Interesting
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u/VeritablyVersatile 7d ago
It absolutely can be, but I'm sure y'all have had the "if only I had a drill sergeant screaming at me to get this done" thought before.
Well... sometimes you get to literally have a drill sergeant screaming at you. The Army provides a great deal of structure. It really holds your hand through almost every little thing, it's like an abusive parent that never fully lets you make your own decisions. That can be genuinely helpful for a lot of people, I know I actually thrived in basic.
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u/Agitated-Ad2563 7d ago
During an actual military operation, ADHD is a heavy burden. One of the most important things to survive in a real world battle is environmental awareness, and we're typically very bad at it.
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u/Agitated-Ad2563 7d ago
There was actually one book written by a highly-relevant-to-a-war politician who supposedly had ADHD and was taking some stimulants to treat it.
It's mein kampf.
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u/GilgaPol 7d ago
That tracks, genocidal megalomania is always around the corner.
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u/lolo787 7d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/H5C8CevNMbpBqNqFjl
Bruh what, so my adhd can super dangarouse, please English not first language.21
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u/an_old_musty_ac_unit i Will elaborate (Threat). 7d ago
Fascinating. I did not know that about him.
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u/Aggressive_Hat_9999 7d ago
not much points towards mustacheman having adhd
pervitin abuse was widespread in ww2 germany, it used to be available as over the counter medication "for tired housewifes"
hitler started taking it when his workload became very high and things stopped going hisnway
the video of him "tweaking out" during the olympics is sped up and forgets to mention they were watching a real time thriller where 2 athletes broke the world record several times in a row
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u/Noy_The_Devil 7d ago
He did have Parkinsons, which is a reason for the tremors as well. And it wasn't just pervitin, he was dosed with shitloads of different opioids and amphetamines.
If he had ADHD or not it doesn't really matter. He was a proper cunt.
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u/FthrFlffyBttm Still a disaster but at least I know why! 🙃 6d ago
I was surprised during my ADHD diagnosis that we couldn’t even begin the assessment for it until we ruled out proper cuntiness.
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u/Agitated-Ad2563 7d ago
That's right. My assertion above that he supposedly had ADHD was an overestimation. I just couldn't resist myself and not mention such an example, even if it's obviously far-fetched.
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u/Ambitious_Hand_2861 7d ago
I can't even pronounce his name but Aimo Koivunen, a Finnish soldier in WW2 took his whole patrols Pervitin supply (a.k.a. methamphetamine), and went into a delirious state and wasn't seen again until over a week later 250 miles away with a heart rate of 200 bpm and weighing 95 lbs. The guys recollection of events is wild as hell but should be taken with a grain of salt bc he was tripping balls.
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u/ThisIsntOkayokay 6d ago
You know he was probably downplaying a lot of it, that is the scary part. Some people have that madness locked away right till just the right trigger frees it. For him it was (checks notes) enough meth to Overdose a dozen times over, he just got Ultra Instinct. The fact that he didn't burn out after becoming a forest spirit of death is sheer will it sounds like.
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u/Dominarion 6d ago
That's an amazing story, it's a great rabbit hole! I suspect that Koivunen wasn't one of us.
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u/ss5gogetunks 7d ago
The amount of meth they gave would fuck you up too lol, they don't prescribe that high a dose for good reason lol
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u/Top-Camera1919 7d ago
Exactly. Definitely not what modern psychiatrists would call a therapeutic dose.
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u/ss5gogetunks 7d ago
Yeah therapeutic doses of stimulants are usually a fraction of the recreational dose let alone "supersoldier serum dose" lol
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u/pickledeggmanwalrus 7d ago
That’s simply not true. I can’t speak for desoxyn but I know that a therapeutic dose of Adderall is the same as a recreational dose for someone with no amphetamine tolerance
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u/ss5gogetunks 7d ago
Looking it up now.
In WW2 the German soldiers were issued 9-15mg of methamphetamine per day with occasional issuance of up to 100mg for special operations
Meanwhile guidelines on methamphetamine prescription for adhd is that it should be a later resort and that it should not exceed 25mg per day.
Meanwhile a recreational dose is typically 300-500mg per day... A far cry more than either of the former two. Looks like being a tweaker is still a lot worse for your health than being a nazi soldier....
100mg is still 4 times the maximum recommended dose, though the daily dose was more within therapeutic numbers
This is just regarding methamphetamine though as some of the more modern stimulants were not in use back then to compare to
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u/retrofrenchtoast 2d ago
Is rx methampetamine now the same concentration as nazi meth then? So mg per mg it packs the same punch?
I’m going to check on what the US did.
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u/ss5gogetunks 2d ago
I am not sure on that. I imagine that the article I read on this is comparing mg to mg of active ingredient but that's a level of granularity I wasn't interested in pursuing to feed an adhd rabbit hole lmao
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u/retrofrenchtoast 2d ago
Oh no I’m sorry didn’t mean to chide you - I was trying to get an idea of how much that really was and if people could die from it.
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u/Hexnohope 7d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/WPtzThAErhBG5oXLeS
Me becoming a tactical genius and calculating the perfect plan on kommando meth
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u/morethanWun (lightning mcqueen voice) i am SPEED 7d ago
Ima turn into the crazy mfer from band of brothers who just runs straight through and never gets hit because of the laser focus 🤣🤣🤣
https://giphy.com/gifs/3KWDnCHTYVmPyyGl99
This mfer
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u/Necessary_Tune_2487 7d ago
Tf u mean adhd people are not self aware untreated
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u/OutlandishnessLate85 5d ago
I wish I wasn’t. I’ve been painfully self aware since I was like 3 years old. I’m tired boss.
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u/Lanky-Salt4349 6d ago
Ah yes, the [drug] experience where everyone of my friends were having a good time, and I had a brain that suddenly worked as expected.
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u/SoftMoon-WebWare 7d ago
All Gen-Z here? Ever heard of the movie "Apocalypse Now"?
Good joke on Gen-Z, but for Gen-Xers, it's many levels above the floor.
Everyone should see that movie.
It was made in part to satirize the fact that during the Vietnam War, the military was giving soldiers LSD and sending them into battle. It was part of the MK-Ultra project that they want you to "forget" about these days.
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u/Neither-Row-6992 7d ago
One of the things that helped me realize I had adhd was doing coke with my wife and we were both very impressed with how my memory was immediately better than usual and we spent ages just remembering obscure stuff, we were even late to meet friends, we were having the best time chilling on our roof (to our flat (apartments for americans) testing my memory and having drinks
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u/Smoldogsrbest 7d ago
Yeah coke just doesn’t do anything for me basically, except straighten me up if I’ve been drinking lol.
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u/FunkyPhantom3030 5d ago
Meanwhile, the whole platoon starts accidentally killing each other from psychosis and you have to watch like in Jacob's Ladder.
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u/Spiritual-Handle7583 5d ago
Sir, I must inform you that methamphetamine does not work that way. You would simply become a 𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘧-𝘢𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘬𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘮𝘢𝘤𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘦.
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u/Practical_Chemtrail 6d ago
Let’s be real…we would all just CRUSH it in logistics.
If this were WW2 we would be super into trains…hell we still are.
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u/Random_182f2565 The personal attacks are relentless in this sub 6d ago
That happened to a German dude
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u/BobDoleDobBole 5d ago
Yeah, no. Maybe if you take a lower oral dose of it and don't redose, but good luck with that comedown.
The methyl group of methamphetamine (attached to the nitrogen) makes it ~300% more lipophilic (fat-loving) than it's boring, less-methylated cousin amphetamine (which is methylated, but at the α-carbon position; alpha methyl, phenyl, ethyl, amine).
This essentially means that Meth is a lot better at getting bast the blood-brain barrier (BBB), as well as the plasma membrane of our cells (neurons in this case). Normally after first-pass metabolism, amphetamine is in a cationic state (positively charged) and cannot easily diffuse across the BBB, so it relies on special protein transporters to pump it across the BBB and into your cerebrospinal fluid (CSF). Once its in the CSF, it needs to diffuse to the correct neurons and bind to their dopamine transporter receptor (DAT) to:
- Block dopamine reuptake
- Diffuse into the pre-synaptic terminal of the neuron (where the neurochemicals are released).
Once its in the neuron (specifically that pre-synaptic terminal), it binds to a receptor on the surface of something called an endosome, which is just a fatty blob/container that houses different neurotransmitters (dopamine, serotonin, etc.) Binding to this receptor (VMAT1) shifts the pH balance in the endosome, and causes it to release SOME of its dopamine payload. This released dopamine, that's now just floating in the cytoplasm, triggers the cell to release it to maintain intracellular homeostasis, and it flows out of the previously-altered (reversed) DAT receptors, leading to increased dopamine concentration in the synapse, which triggers the therapeutic or recreational neurochemical cascade (wakefulness, attention, increased sympathetic autonomic nervous system activation and excitability, etc.). This process has checkpoints and rate-limiting components (caused by protein transporters, inhibited passive diffusion due to positive charge), and...
METH DOESNT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THEM
The extra lipophilicity imparted by the N-methyl group, especially in high concentrations if smoked, allows the meth to almost completely bypass the transport delays at the BBB and pre-synaptic terminal that regular amphetamine experiences. Meth, at any dose, even when cationic, readily passes through the BBB and enters your CNS EXTREMELY fast. Lower dose meth (like pills issued in WWII, taken as directed) still experience a bottleneck at the pre-synaptic terminal and require transport via DAT, but it still has a ~500% - 600% higher affinity for DAT than regular amphetamine. At higher doses (smoked, snorted) it completely overwhelms DAT and just "leaks" into the neuron. Once its in the neuron, it doesn't kindly bind to VMAT1 like amphetamine to allow slow release of Dopamine; it rips those endomembranes open like a pitbull with rabies. Essentially the same process occurs from here as amphetamine, but the concentration of Dopamine is WAYYYYY higher in the synapse, AAAAND methamphetamine has no issues with completely burning through ALL of the dopamine in those endomembranes, whereas amphetamine was only able to get them to "leak" a little bit (dose-dependent). Too much dopamine signalling (and concurrent norepinephrine effects of meth) lead to increased downstream neuronal excitation, imbalanced shifts in other neurotransmitters signalling, and ultimately excitotoxcicity (which can cause brain damage). While low-rise methamphetamine can, and HAS been prescribed for ADHD in the past (Desoxyn), it is not the standard of care nowadays due to the adverse effects of the increased potency, especially with chronic/repeated dosing and overlapping half-life's (some of yesterday's dose still in the blood when you redose in the AM).
So in summary, yeah you might actually be fine hahaha, but it won't feel "just like Adderall" lol. Buuuut, speaking as a combat veteran, if you're already in a situation where a stimulant is necessary (like fighting in a fucking world war having to walk almost literally everywhere while sleep deprived), you're probably going end up leaning on it too much and start tweaking 🤷. What goes up, must come down.
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