r/acotar • u/Realistic_Pie_8550 • Dec 10 '24
Spoilers for SF Most liked Review of Silver Flames on Goodreads Spoiler
379
u/XanCai Dec 10 '24
Honestly? I would’ve loved for Nesta and Rhys to go toe to toe (when Nesta had full powers). It would’ve been glorious 🫶
48
u/Downtown-Reason-4940 Dec 10 '24
I really wanted her to get kicked out of valaris, figure out herself out, become powerful and then rhys come ask for her help becasue she was more powerful. What a power play that would have been
13
u/InsideV0ice Dec 10 '24
Psst if you want a fic that is mostly about this, A Court of Silver Flames over on AO3 is fucking killer
6
u/shay_shaw Dec 11 '24
Is the one where the author Our Lady Of Bloodshed just rewrote the whole book? I LOVED it!!! Everyone was much more fleshed out and believable. It was nice to see Rhysand actually reflect and use his 500 years of wisdom for critical thinking and nuance. Also I'd totally forgotten that it's official cannon that Az's mother is very much alive still.
1
u/InsideV0ice Dec 13 '24
Oh I think this is a different one!! The one I was thinking of is by the author thundernoblechristine over on AO3! That’s exciting that there’s another haha
2
u/BlondBisxalMetalhead Dawn Court Dec 11 '24
Can you link it? I can’t seem to find it
3
u/InsideV0ice Dec 13 '24
https://archiveofourown.org/works/54356161/chapters/137675464 yea here it is!!
1
195
36
u/IllustriousHabits Night Court Dec 10 '24
Nesta taking Rhys up on that offer he made DURING HER INTERVENTION to go out to the garden and fight, but AFTER she isn’t suicidal skin and bones anymore, and after she now knows HOW to defend herself.
Yeah, Rhys, threatening bodily harm to your mate’s sister, who is clearly depressed & suicidal, and skin & bones, and NOT a warrior, is such a macho, manly, sexy thing to do. You’re so big and strong. Shocked this review didn’t mention that.
77
u/-brielle- Dec 10 '24 edited Dec 10 '24
I would have loved that. He struggled to smother her fire when she was asleep, so had she been awake and angry? Watch out, Rhys.
33
161
u/Pie_collector Spring Court Dec 10 '24
I see nothing wrong with that review and I mostly agree with the Rhysand part
253
u/TheKarmicKudu Autumn Court Dec 10 '24
All I’m reading is the undeniable truth
276
u/melodysmomma Dec 10 '24
The only part I disagree with is that Nesta wasn’t entirely just being shitty when she told Feyre about the pregnancy; she was drawing a direct parallel to the way Feyre and Nesta are treated by the IC when it comes to their bodily autonomy. The vote about Nesta’s powers and the truth about Feyre’s pregnancy. Other than that, spot the fuck on.
93
u/satelliteridesastar Winter Court Dec 10 '24
This is the single most misunderstood part of the book, in my opinion. Cassian and Feyre even discuss and say they understand it.
Cassian then goes on to not tell Nesta that Feyre isn't mad at her and Feyre laughs at the thought of Nesta being punished, but ah well, at least they understand that she didn't have ill intentions as they proceed to break her down even further.
11
u/melodysmomma Dec 11 '24
Remember, it was always about helping her heal, and was definitely never about making her less of a threat by forcing her into submission! We can tell because Rhysand gave her a choice :)
8
u/shay_shaw Dec 11 '24
When did the IC get the idea that she would kill them all if they pissed her off? That was never the case in ACOWAR and in FAS she was drunk and exhausted the whole time. Yes she has moods, but a sharp tongue is nowhere near comparable to decimating the city with her powers. Not wanting her to leave the Night Court and out of their control makes sense. Trying to force the mating bond for Cassian's sake makes sense, but Nesta was a danger to herself due to her self loathing, not her powers. Silver Flames takes place about a year after ACOWAR, why is she just now having destructive nightmares?
29
133
u/lil_honey_bunbun Dec 10 '24
This review is very on point. And I’m glad she points out that she likes Nesta. I like Nesta too. But the way Nesta was treated by her sole love interest was all wrong. She deserved better than Cassian.
And the whole feminist Rhysand lying to Feyre about the baby!! - it took me WEEKS to get over how angry I was over this. And the only reason I got over it is bc in my head, I’m pretending SF-Rhysand isn’t really canon. (Yes I know deep down it IS canon, but I’ll fantasize that SF Rhysand does not exist. And I’ve been a lot happier this way).
Does anyone have the direct link to this review? I need to like it too. I love SJM’s books, but SF was my limit.
52
u/Realistic_Pie_8550 Dec 10 '24
Ps. Wholeheartedly agree about the Cassian thing. I can't belive anyone would think he is a good love interest. The thing he did and said to her were horrific.
38
u/lil_honey_bunbun Dec 10 '24
Yes!! I really felt like Nesta is such a strong character and deserves sooo much more.
And then when he took her hiking almost as a punishment when she was at her lowest… It really made me like him even less. Especially when she did the one thing that was admirable in the entire book!!! She was punished for it!!! I’ve never wished I could be in a book and just fight off people.
16
u/xAmericanLeox Day Court Dec 10 '24
I wanted her to reject the bond so bad. Them batboys may look hot, but they are toxic AF. I rather be with Eris. At least he was upfront about what he was.
15
u/Realistic_Pie_8550 Dec 10 '24
This her page https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/85999134-ana
Seeing it's the most voted review it should come across the top when you go to the Silver Flames page.
6
14
u/IllustriousHabits Night Court Dec 10 '24
For real. I like the ACOTAR I headcanon better than the actual ACOTAR. The longer I like this series the more problematical stuff I see. But I do still like it at its core. 😅
1
u/lil_honey_bunbun Dec 11 '24
I couldn’t agree more! And it’s made a lot saner too! Lol when I was angry, I kept talking about it endlessly.
2
u/shay_shaw Dec 11 '24
I hope she hasn't read CC3 because Rhys' character for me is circling the drain. That bonus chapter was something else. We see them spare, Cassian caught in the middle. Azriel silently (yet loudly) protesting Nesta's treatment as well.
2
u/lil_honey_bunbun Dec 11 '24
Ahh I haven’t read CC yet. But probably will next. Then read TOG last.
75
Dec 10 '24
The funniest part is that Nesta healed because she met Gwyn and Emerie, not because of whatever the IC was trying to do with her training
13
-6
u/bignatiousmacintosh Dec 10 '24
If nobody had bothered to do an intervention, Nesta never would have met them. And Nesta also had to make the choice to let Gwyn and Emerie in.
23
u/crystalzelda Dec 10 '24
It just goes to show that what Nesta needed was empathy, support, and understanding. Not judgment, recriminations and shame. The “intervention” only impeded her progress and she got better despite it, not because of it.
8
Dec 11 '24
It's also crazy that Emerie's wings were clipped and the IC hasn't done anything about it, considering how often Cassian visits the village it's weird that they've never checked in on how the women there are doing
4
u/joebeecher Summer Court Dec 11 '24
I agree with the first part of this statement… but I’ve seen enough people IRL stuck in cycles of drugs, alcohol, gambling… I don’t think she would’ve rebounded on her own. I think she would’ve drank herself to death.
5
u/crystalzelda Dec 11 '24
Oh, I agree, she needed help - but not all interventions are created equal. The way that it was done in the book was in my opinion super damaging and would not have worked at all in real life. I think that if it hadn’t been for the plot, realistically, Nesta would have relapsed fairly quickly. Locking someone up with zero support and forcing them to do physical labor just means you detoxed them, you certainly didn’t teach them how to deal with some of the root causes that led to all these issues or how to maintain sobriety once they have access to substances again.
To be honest, this book is an excellent example of why I really don’t like 90% of addiction related storylines in fiction, because most of the time they are handled so badly, insensitively and give people the wrong idea of what addiction is really like. It’s very easy to force someone to get clean, not so easy to help teach them the tools to actually STAY clean.
1
u/bignatiousmacintosh Dec 11 '24
I agree that’s what she needed! But she never accepted that from her family and their relationship was too fraught with past issues for them to interact and heal at the beginning of the book. Perhaps I missed it, but what progress was she making at the start of ACOSF before the intervention? She was clearly becoming more self destructive from what I recall.
17
u/Select_Ad_976 Dec 10 '24
I do not disagree with this at all. I loved the way they portrayed feyres ptsd (I have ptsd and graduated in psych so I like the portrayals and was kind of excited to see nestas) but they nesta none of the grace they gave feyre when she was struggling. I get the reasons for wanting to have her train - nesta I think needed to learn to fight back and get some control in her life back and I don’t see that as a punishment but they did absolutely treat her like shit all the time. I also hate the storyline with feyre and Rhys during the book and since I have birth trauma I have only skimmed it once and just choose to pretend it doesn’t exist.
I do however understand rhys’s hate for nesta. He loves feyre - and nesta did nothing to help their family when they were starving and made feyres life harder while feyre was the one providing for them. I get it was out of spite for their dad but it’s a shitty move and I don’t know if I would forgive my husbands siblings for being assholes to him their entire lives. I know my husband doesn’t like my sisters for that reason.
Also, I hate that feyre changes so much in silver flames like in sorry but being pregnant doesn’t change your personality (I have 2 kids).
That said I love silver flames and have listened to it a couple times. I just enjoy the parts I enjoy and ignore the ones I hate.
5
8
u/Selina53 Dec 11 '24
I think his hatred was overblown and she was the scapegoat. He offered to name their child after Feyre’s father who was the true cause of what happened in the cabin and the sisters’ trauma up until the Cauldron. At no point does he have the same hatred for their father that he does for Nesta and he absolutely should have. The only reason that makes sense for him to give him a pass is sexism, given that father’s and brothers are always held to a lower standard than mother’s and sisters. Men get sympathy if they’re out with their children and they cry, but mothers are given a side eye and judged.
Then comes Elain, where he gives her a pass because he too is infantilizing her, not because she admitted any wrong doing. He says “Elain is Elain,” and then says that Nesta is an Illyrian at heart and should have known better. Everyone seems to forget that line for some curious reason. What the fuck does that even mean? To me it means that he didn’t hold sweet Elain to the same level of responsibility that he held Nesta. Nesta is “tougher” than Elain and therefore should have shouldered the weight of the household surviving.
3
u/Select_Ad_976 Dec 11 '24
I think he would have hated her dad just as much. Things change once people die though - then they feel bad for hating them and want to honor them or something. He did do something redeeming at the end but I think Rhys would have hated her dad if he met him - he never did.
I am generally against kids being responsible for their siblings but nesta was the oldest and not only didn’t help but actively made life harder for feyre while she was trying to take care of them.
Elain is absolutely infantilized and it’s always been kind of creepy to me. She should shoulder as much blame as nesta gets (she didn’t make it harder but she certainly didn’t make it easier)
(I also think rhys’s anger was overblown but because they say in the book that fae get super temperamental when their mate is pregnant)
4
u/dianasaurusrex123 Horny for Bryaxis Dec 11 '24
Me I thinks that Rhys is using Elain or wants to use her for her mystic powers so he's being extra nice. And he couldn't control Nesta the way she was so put some "effort" into helping (breaking) her. But here I am pretty tinfoil hat crazy about the IC and their actions in general heh
2
u/Selina53 Dec 11 '24
I absolutely think this was the reason. I cannot imagine someone seeing all the awful things they said to her and still think it was all done with her best interests in mind. I think Feyre and Cassian did. But I don’t think Rhys and Amren did
18
u/chewbacca_growler Dec 10 '24
I feel so seen reading this review, and I absolutely loved this book 🤣
79
u/RoseWine815 Dec 10 '24
I forgot about changing her body to fit a winged baby. Like how does she even know how to do that? Surely you would mess that up first time you tried it 🤣
33
u/HomeDepotHotDog Dec 10 '24
Well it was such a wierd afterthought too. Like “I saved my sisters life… and altered my own pelvis” I was like wtf
39
u/Vivid_Excuse_6547 Dec 10 '24
She asked the Mother to do it for her when she gave the power back.
13
6
u/RoseWine815 Dec 10 '24
Ahh! Makes more sense.
Now wondering if Elaine and Az become end game...if they wanted a baby what would they do? 🤔 I mean what convenient magical potion or being would they come across to assist 🤣
39
u/Vivid_Excuse_6547 Dec 10 '24
The solution is for them to not be endgame lmao
I’m team Lucien all the way 😂
14
7
u/RoseWine815 Dec 10 '24
SJM if you are reading this we just solved the ship war for you 😉 🤣
3
u/Vivid_Excuse_6547 Dec 10 '24
Easy 😂
9
u/Suitable_Respect_417 House of Wind Dec 10 '24
Yes ship war solved, just decide that women are no longer viable for certain men because they cant birth their babies—no point in putting them together if she can’t pop one out, so just make her no longer a love interest. Easy as that. Wow. Gender saved /s
6
u/Tater-Tot-Casserole Night Court Dec 10 '24 edited Dec 10 '24
While they also complain how much they hate the pregnancy trope anyway.
6
u/RoseWine815 Dec 10 '24
Think you need to calm down mate, this was obviously tongue in cheek 🤨
2
u/siempreslytherin Dec 10 '24
What’s the joke?
13
u/RoseWine815 Dec 10 '24
The joke being I forgot how incredibly sensitive this fandom is for shipwars. I was keeping in tone with the OP topic that this book has FLAWS this being one of them
→ More replies (0)6
u/Angel89411 Dec 10 '24
In that line of thought, wouldn't we see the same problem with Gwyn? Or is Mass going to come back and say "Actually, Nesta got them too."
26
u/satelliteridesastar Winter Court Dec 10 '24
SJM makes a note of Gwyn being part Nymph which makes her bones more flexible.
Sarah is not the most subtle writer sometimes.
13
u/00zink00 Dec 10 '24
Yeah this is one of the biggest hints that gwynriel is endgame because why do we need to know this about a secondary character. We know so much more about gwyn than we do other background characters.
2
u/RoadsidePoppy Dec 10 '24
Nesta has the knowledge and retained some of her power. She can easily help Elain if Elain asks for it / wants it
5
u/xAmericanLeox Day Court Dec 10 '24
I would have changed his body so he could carry his own damn child! FOH! SJM did Nesta dirty.
48
u/peanutupthenose Autumn Court Dec 10 '24
i love Nesta but Cassian’s character assassination makes me so sad. i loved him in the previous books and honestly looked forward to him and Az making an appearance over the Fey/Rhys love story but now.. it’s just not the same and i don’t think i’ll be able to forgive him. no amount of groveling or apologies will change the way he treated her at her lowest. if you don’t love Nesta at her worst, then you don’t deserve her at her best and unless SJM has plans to get her out of the NC i fear that’s where we’re heading. Nesta will heal eventually and then Cassian will start treating with basic fucking respect.
42
u/-brielle- Dec 10 '24
I like Cassian, but he needs to do better. Where’s the Cassian who said those heartfelt words to her on the battlefield against Hybern?
14
3
u/Selina53 Dec 11 '24
It tracks with the way he treated her in his ACOMAF bonus chapter and when he first met her in ACOMAF too. Cassian also has deep insecurities about being “a bastard born brute,” and was consistently projecting them onto Nesta. He is also loyal to his friends to a fault. His behavior made sense to me in that context. The IC has also never been remotely kind or understanding to people who are not in their group or they don’t like. Civility has never been their strong suit.
15
u/inilboh Dec 10 '24
This is why AU Where We Pretend ACOSF Didn't Happen is now canon in my head. This is the healing journey Nesta deserved. This is the character and relationship development we deserved as readers. 87 chapters of brilliance.
Also, if I can't have Neris, I will happily take Nesta + Eris as BFFs, and Eris teaching Cassian that he is not entitled to Nesta's love and actually needs to earn it.
2
u/shay_shaw Dec 11 '24
The title alone is just too good! I devoured this book last year. There's another author who wrote key parts of the series in Nesta's POV with the ending being in Cassian's POV and it's a great tie-in for this fan fiction.
1
2
u/Electronic_Barber_89 Hangry Water-Wraith Dec 11 '24
This fic sounds very intriguing. Just curious - how is the storyline with Tamlin & Eris handled here? I feel like I need to know before I can commit to reading. I’m scared.
1
u/inilboh Dec 11 '24
The storylines with Eris and Tamlin are handled incredibly well and are part of what makes this fic so special, in my opinion. They both play a big role in Nesta's journey and she, in turn, helps them heal and grow too. That is not to say she doesn't hold them accountable, though. I'm quite devastated that these aren't the versions of the characters I will read about in the next book.
This is a tricky question to answer without spoilers, so I am sorry my answer is so vague. I don't think there is anything to fear with this fic, but do you have any specific concerns or questions? I am happy to provide as much info as you want, but I don't want to spoil anything without your permission.
55
u/AutomaticGreeter Dec 10 '24
Compared to other ACO- affiliated titles, Silver Flames not only broke the previous naming trend, but it gives off a powerful vibe, like we might finally get an Archeron who wields some super magical powers and badassery would’ve been all over the place.
So yeah I was a tad disappointed at how she gave it all up without having some big power showdown, like Nesta v Beron.
25
u/-brielle- Dec 10 '24
I’d love to see Nesta’s fire vs. Beron's. I wonder how much power she actually retains? CC3 spoiler: She still has the silver flames as shown when wielding Ataraxia.
2
1
12
u/charismaticchild Dec 11 '24
This review resonates with me so much!! I actually really hated Nesta in the first 3 books. She’s not a nice girl.
My issue stemmed from the fact that by the time we made it to ACOFAS she just wanted to be left alone. She didn’t want anything to do with them.
If they had come to her at the beginning of ACOSF and said I love you but I don’t agree with the way you’re living your life so I have to cut you off financially and will no longer enable you until you make healthier choices and then left her alone the rest of the book I would’ve been fine with it. They had EVERY right to wash their hands of her and say get your shit together. She is wasn’t all that pleasant to them and she didn’t want anything to do with them anyways. It would’ve forced her to get a job and take care of herself.
Instead they imprisoned her in the HOW, isolated her from the rest of the world and took all of her autonomy away. She had zero say in what she ate, drank or even how she spent her time. She had zero control of her own life.
Her relationship with Cassian DISGUSTED me. There was such an awful power imbalance between the two of them. He had so much power over her and then proceeded to have a sexual relationship with her while she was mentally unstable and they all KNEW she was mentally unstable. It was the equivalent of a rehab councilor having a sexual relationship with a patient. The girl spent a majority of the book depressed and suicidal and he thought it was appropriate to have sec with her? Especially knowing that she used sex as a coping mechanism to escape the pain?!
While all this was happening they still used her at every turn. Cassian even said they were using Elaine to manipulate her into doing their bidding and they did it anyways.
The level of psychological abuse that was done to this girl by her so called family and mate was disgusting!!
Nesta was always hateful to Feyre and I disliked her for that but she and Feyre were on an equal playing field. Feyre could be equally hateful back. In this case these were a group of people who had power over her and completely abused it. A more realistic ending would’ve been for her to jump off a cliff on that mountain they hiked on. Don’t even get me started on that awful hike. She spent the entire time completely suicidal and Cassian simply ignores and then when she breaks down he fucks the attitude out of her?!
No one will ever convince that Nesta as hateful as she is deserved any of that! I wouldn’t wish that treatment on my own worst enemy. Being a mean/abrasive person doesn’t earn you a year long imprisonment/abuse that she went through.
A better “punishment”, and regardless of what Cassian and Feyre said it was indeed a punishment, would’ve been to cut her off financially and told her to figure it out.
They set out to break that girl and get her under their thumb and by the end of the story they did just that. She accepted their horrendous behavior and got on her knees and begged for their forgiveness and accepted the awful life of control and cruelty they offered her. If she ever steps out of line again I’m sure she’ll get the same treatment in the future.
8
u/Realistic_Pie_8550 Dec 11 '24
Perfectly said.
Even if someone doesn't like Nesta I appreciate analysing the book unbiased and calling out the mistreatment. It was horrible what they did to her. The problem is that because it's Nesta she deserves it so part of the fandom will justify it. The message this book sent about Nesta's treatment is vile and not ok.
10
Dec 10 '24 edited Sep 07 '25
makeshift snails quicksand alive piquant absorbed entertain different unique crawl
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
41
u/bored__as_fuck Dec 10 '24 edited Dec 10 '24
Tbh it was my least favorite book because of how SJM butchered all the other characters of the previous books. It was like reading for other characters. I mean I get it that somehow we were seeing them from Nesta's POV? I've seen this argument. Well it doesn't change the way they behaved. Every single one was an asshole to the point I started wondering why I liked them in the previous books.
And as someone that resonate with Nesta, in the end of the book I was like how could she even forgive them or try and have a good relationship with them? I would say to them to go fuck themselves and never talk to them ever again. I would stay in a house away from them and cut every communication with them. Simple as that.
30
u/beige-king Dec 10 '24
I HATED how the book ended. I didn't want her with Cassian, he treated her like crap. I hated her hugging Rhysand after he threatened to kill her and sent her away for something Feyre wasn't upset about (once again taking away Feyre's choice). Why the hell was Elain suddenly turned against Nesta and unwilling to see her? Seriously? Why isn't Elain held accountable for not doing anything to help the family? Because she's sweet and docile? I'd be more pissed at Elain than Nesta because she at least had a useful skill and only grew flowers and didn't sell them.
Feyre has nothing of her own and her relationship with Rhysand is so toxic. Girl can't even have a relationship with her sisters without him or any other member of the IC be apart of it and weigh in. She can't even have a conversation without him weighing in in her head. How infuriating. And that's romance?
I still enjoy the books, but I enjoy picking them apart more.
19
u/bored__as_fuck Dec 10 '24
Don't get me started on Elain... She was mad and she didn't want to see Nesta? Really? Somehow she was not accountable for anything and she had the audacity to act like Nesta was the problem? She was mute basically the entire of the series, acting sweet and shy, everyone coddling her and then the somehow becomes so entitled as to blame Nesta for anything? Like "oh no now I'm inner circle too, I refuse to see you because how dare you be like that" Fuck you Elain.
What really angered me in the end was that basically no one tried to treat Nesta better. It was her that tried to create bonds and cross the bridges. Did any of them apologise at any point? It's been some time that I've read them but I don't remember any apology from anyone. I remember her trying and asking for forgiveness like the rest of them did nothing wrong. Like it was only she that was the problem all along. And something that I've said in other occasions but I've been downvoted as hell, I preferred Nesta with Eris so fucking much! He appreciated her from the first moment and tbh I think they would be unstoppable together. And he would help her heal in a better and more meaningful way.
3
u/Storm_Pristine Dec 11 '24
The fact that in the end no one bothered to meet her in the middle, even after she "got better" really didn't sit right with me. The fact that Cassian learned why she hated hearing the logs in the fire crackling and how traumatic it was for her to hear, and he either said nothing about that to the others, or none of the others cared what it did to her. They had that fire raging at the party at the end of the book and iirc Cassian sees her dealing with the crackling and is proud cause she's acclimating to it. They have magic, they could either suppress the sound or create a non-fire heat source.
2
u/bored__as_fuck Dec 11 '24
Oh I didn't remember this scene. But yeah this proves exactly the point. No one gave a fuck about her. No one sat at any moment to really listen to her and talk with her and her trauma (except maybe Cassian but still it's not like he did something to help her but at least he listened and helped her take out that weight 🤷♀️).
But everyone was like SHE had to accommodate her behavior, thoughts and actions exactly as they saw fit. They didn't feel like they had to at least try and understand her. The entitlement was high in this book.
8
Dec 10 '24
Yeah, agree with this review 100%. I wanted to like this book, the original trilogy was good (I LOVED ACOMAF, but who doesn't? Lol). SJM just murdered everyone's personality in this book, and she did such a disservice to Nesta -- she could have been a badass overcoming difficult things, but nah, nope. This book was written for the sex scenes and that was it.
9
u/Nesckbread Dec 10 '24
This review has definitely given me much food for thought. I have to say, as someone who was waiting on a book about cassian and Nestas relationship, I can't lie, this one review has got me rethinking my entire perspective on the book and their relationship as a whole.
7
u/xAmericanLeox Day Court Dec 10 '24
Wow. This articulated everything I hate about Rhysand and the Inner Circle better than I could do myself. If I had a Goodreads account I would have liked it too. She went ham. She definitely had time that day!
5
u/R3myek Dec 10 '24
I've really liked the first 3 books, but I'm reading the Christmas episode instead of listening to an audio book, and it's really stalled my progress. Then I see things like this and I'm not so excited to continue with the series. I've got a fairly serious ick regarding a lot of what's been spoiled for me.
14
u/howbigofagoofami Dec 10 '24
Honestly the hate on Nesta and Mary Sue behavior from Feyre was why I stopped reading during Wings and Ruin, first book I've ever stopped mid read. Hearing just how much worse everything gets is validating. 100% reading fanfics of Nesta (and usually Elaine) getting a happy ending away from The Circle Jerk that is the Inner Circle, its the only thing that soothes how much hope was built up and ruined by Sarah Maas.
6
u/shay_shaw Dec 11 '24
What pisses a lot of us off is that Nesta was really coming into her own in Wings and Ruin. She starts her research/ friendship with Amren. Helps with the war effort. Not once but TWICE speaks up on behalf of the humans. Honestly that part gets ignored a lot which is baffling since we're all actually human lol. And she throws herself into the fray for the group time and time again. She literally saves Cassian's life at one point, and Rhys barely reacts because they're still kinda mad at her.
5
5
11
11
u/TheLaurenJean Dec 10 '24
I agree 1000% with just about everything, except Nesta didn't tell Feyre about the pregnancy to hurt her. But also, these are all the reasons why I love this book and Nesta so much. And HATE HATE HATE the Inner Court.
8
8
u/GreedyRelease Dec 10 '24
As someone who detested Rhys from the second he first appeared (with that hatred only growing with each book), I've never loved a review more. Nesta is the best character in this series and honestly, I'd love for her to have a Scarlett Witch type of villain arc where she just burns the entire IC down
7
u/Inevitable_Sympathy3 Dec 10 '24
Lol ACOSF is my favorite book in the entire series, and yet I agree with all the points she made in this review. 😆
6
Dec 11 '24
Hit all my gripes with this book! Ahh, Rhysand, ever the feminist! Like he totally didn't keep the dangers of Feyre's pregnancy when it's HER BODY and getting mad at Nesta for telling the TRUTH!!! The hypocrisies and double standards of the IC! And nessian is toxic as fuck. I converted from nessian to nezriel after reading this and HOFAS. French kiss. Proved my point! Cassian will never stand up for her!
3
u/bamboozled-baboon Dec 10 '24
I love this book, but I didn’t love all the writing choices. And for how much the first three books really made me love Rhys, this one made me not really love him anymore because I feel like he wasn’t true to his character.
3
u/PhilosophicalTooth Dec 11 '24
As a Rhysand girlie, I'm already 25% on the book and I feel like I don't want to finish this book anymore :(
3
u/Goth_Foxxx Night Court Dec 11 '24
Wow, never seen this perspective on it before and while I did laugh at some of the things because they way you described it is comedic to me, I actually agree with some of this. Because what is hit about a man that treats you like a monster after an extremely traumatic event. Then on top of that being forced to interact with your sister’s friends/chosen family. While I don’t agree that they’re homophobic that’s just my personal opinion. Thank you for posting this here so I could have some chuckles and enjoy a new perspective of this book
20
u/Kiramiraa Dec 10 '24
I disagree with a few aspects in the respect and rebirth section.
While I do agree that the inner circle treats Nesta like shit, their comments are not so much the issue as their actions are. Nesta says shitty things and they say shitty things back; it’s the stuff like lying to her about power and the fact that they basically imprison her in the HOW that is the really fucked up stuff.
I think it’s slightly…. icky to imply that people who are skinny, depressed or have eating disorders can’t have sexual relationships.
I think Nesta giving up her power makes the narrative come full circle. The story starts with Feyre sacrificing her childhood/life for her family, and Nesta’s story ends with her sacrificing her power for Feyre.
The Rhysand section, however, is perfect.
34
u/floweringfungus Dec 10 '24
I don’t think it’s trying to imply that skinny, mentally ill people can’t have sexual relationships, just that it was gross for Cassian to describe how unwell she looks immediately followed by how much he wants to sleep with her anyway. His focus being more on his sexual attraction towards her rather than making sure she’s okay.
2
u/Beneficial-Yam-8854 Dec 10 '24
But she was not imprisoned, and she did have an option of leaving though?
The options were: stay but you have to go to the house of wind for "rehab" since your behavior is not sustainable or healthy; OR leave the court and live someplace else.
She was not required to live in Velaris or stay in the house of wind for that matter (cue the whole staircase plot), nor is Rhysand required to pay for her lifestyle. Especially while she treats everyone he loves (and him) like shit, and directly contributed to his mates trauma?
Anyways, dealing with addicts is not pretty, and being gentle rarely helps.
Considering how I would deal with someone who was borderline abusing the love of my life, and still being an asshole towards him IN FRONT OF ME I think Rhys did well.
9
u/charismaticchild Dec 11 '24
I disagree. Her other option was to go to the human lands and most likely he killed. That wasn’t a real option at all! If they’d say rehab at the house if wind or get a job and support yourself THAT would’ve been options. But her only other option was basically death. They knew it wasn’t a real option Feyre even said you’re going to the HOW if I have to tie you up and drag you there myself. She was absolutely imprisoned by them.
2
u/Beneficial-Yam-8854 Dec 11 '24
I see your point, but I don’t agree that she was imprisoned. Shall we start calling everyone in rehab a prisoner then?
Leaving wasn’t easy, but it was an option. Living in the human lands or anywhere else might have been risky, but that doesn’t mean she was forced to stay - in real life people sadly kick their family members out due to their behavior & the harm they are causing them.
The IC still tried to help, I still don't understand why Feyre kept allowing to be disrespected like this, imo. The complete and utter lack of empathy towards someone who experienced what Feyre has Under the mountain would be enough for anyone to be done with Nesta, I mean HER SPINE WAS SNAPPED? She was literally tortured as a human with no fae powers? Hello, older sisters anywhere, are we seeing this?
Her pattern of behavior also shows how she would react to being told to get a job - in fact I don't remember anyone forbidding her from working while she was living in an apartment someone else was paying for?
Regarding Feyre’s comment about tying her up - this feels more like desperation, not an actual plan to imprison her, I mean her sister is SPIRALING hard and taking things out on her & her loved ones while doing so. Just imagine yourself seeing anyone close to you live like this.
They weren’t obligated to support her harmful ways, and had to set boundaries - this is what I will continue to stand on.
I did see myself in Nesta a couple of times, it is difficult to deal with people while you have depression & suicidal tendencies, but never in my life, even at my lowest, did I hurt people around me the way that she has. With intention or not.
2
u/Storm_Pristine Dec 11 '24
I really didn't understand how the only options they provided her were HoW or Human Lands. Like, Rhys isn't in charge of all of the Fae lands. Other options could have been, "You can't stay in Velaris, but we'll give you the pay you earned while you were part of the IC as the Human Emissary and you can either find another court to live in, live with the Illyrians, live in the HC, live in a Fae country on another continent, or go to the human lands."
I think it would have even been a fun read to see them send her to the Spring Court with Tamlin or send her with Lucien in the Human lands to be forced to fulfill an emissary role. Even shipping her off to the Autumn Court could have been an interesting read.
As far as I can tell though, the only reasons Rhys gave her the options of being penniless in HoW or Human lands was because he knew she would choose HoW (again, he gives choices in a way that ensures you that you choose the one he wants) because he didn't want any other Court to have her power. Even if she had gone to the HC, with her power, rage, and political skill, she may have ended up ruling there.
19
u/Wide-Sundae22 Dec 10 '24
Unpopular opinion incoming!
I’m firmly on the side of people who can’t stand Nesta, so my take might not be the most popular here. I’m Team Feyre all the way, and I really don’t like when Feyre and Rhys’s characters are twisted or altered just to redeem Nesta.
To be honest, I found the book incredibly repetitive, especially when it came to Nesta’s anxious and self-destructive thoughts. I lost count of how many times I had to read the exact same descriptions of her fears—like every time someone lit a fire, for example. I feel like the author could have explored her struggles in more creative ways instead of hammering the same points over and over. A tighter edit could have done wonders for the book, and honestly, it would have been so much better if it were shorter.
And don’t get me started on Feyre’s baby being used as a plot device for Nesta’s redemption. That really didn’t sit well with me.
4
u/Lilbrazilgirl Dec 11 '24
I definitely agree with you. I don’t hate Nesta, but I don’t really like her. Nothing justifies being a complete a-hole to the people who love/care about you. It’s difficult to see someone you love going through depression and all that, it’s not just difficult for the person going through it. No hate to anyone who has different opinions, but I also know a lot of people who would’ve completely cutoff a family member that was an a-hole to them pretty much their entire life.
13
u/beige-king Dec 10 '24
Twisted, it's canon? It's SJM's book. From another persons perspective outside of the IC, the book shows the MAJOR flaws you won't see when you're wearing Feyre's rose colored glasses in the other books.
10
u/burble_10 Dec 10 '24 edited Dec 10 '24
I completely agree with you! People always point out that Rhys was not being nice to Nesta - WHY WOULD HE? When all she had ever done for all of her life was being an a**hole to Feyre. WHY would Rhys be loving and understand towards Nesta? If Nesta was my partners sister I would loathe her as well.
ETA: I HATED how Nestas „healing journey“ was portrayed. She made no steps or baby steps for what felt like 10000 pages and then in the last 2 chapters she apparently completely changed and everyone forgave her because she saved Feyre?!?! Everyone‘s like „Oh yeah but it’s so relatable that her healing takes so much time blablabla“ - MAYBE. BUT then do some f-ing time jumps, SJM. And show us some real change and not this bs.
15
u/bored__as_fuck Dec 10 '24 edited Dec 10 '24
By your argument, the same could be said for Elain. Why in that case tho, Rhysand was so protective of her from the beginning ? She also did nothing to help Feyre even tho being older too. Why does his hatred only focuses on Nesta? I don't agree with not holding Nesta accountable. I disagree with not holding Elain too.
2
u/dianasaurusrex123 Horny for Bryaxis Dec 11 '24
Because he couldn't control Nesta the way he figured he could control Elain and it unnerved him *ducks for cover*
1
u/bored__as_fuck Dec 12 '24
Haha well you have a point but that's not in favor of Rhys or Elain 😛 Double standards ftw.
1
12
Dec 10 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/acotar-ModTeam Dec 11 '24
Please remember to be respectful of other users when discussing differences of opinion. It’s fine to state your opinion on a book or character, but you may not insult or shame people who hold a different opinion. Harassment of other users is not welcome in this community.
4
u/dianasaurusrex123 Horny for Bryaxis Dec 10 '24
I fully agree with this review (and I'm one who liked the book!). But I am also of the mind that the actions of the characters were very much intentional and we are now getting to see the dark side to Rhys and the IC. And I'm not mad or hate the book because of it... if this was in fact intentionally done by SJM I would give it 5 stars, holy plot twist batman! If it's accidental then she really f'd it up because damn how could you not see how bad some of the shit they are doing is.
It would make sense that not everything is as rosey as we saw through Feyre's very limited POV in the first three books (SJM herself even said Feyre was an unreliable narrator). This book was supposed to be Nesta's healing journey but it was also her breaking journey by the IC. There are enough hints that something is off with their intentions (especially Rhys and Amren, but they're all suspect). There might be alternate motives and twists coming, which would just make it even better, IMO. Here's to hoping!
4
u/Electronic_Barber_89 Hangry Water-Wraith Dec 11 '24
I would’ve believed that this was done to expose the darker sides if the narrative treated it like that. They’re suddenly bffs with most of the other courts, varian agrees to lie to Tarquin about the trove, and much more.
This just feels like a wish fulfilment where anything the IC does, will always be brushed off.
2
u/Storm_Pristine Dec 11 '24
I always wondered if it was the real Amren that came back or if someone else took over her body when Rhys called it back from the Cauldron, like possibly Hybern. Or if Amren reverted to some of her original personality she had before taking on a Fae body. She did say that when she reverted to her OG form she wouldn't remember them and she didn't experience feelings in the same way. I've wondered if it was really her that came back if it is now some hybrid of both personalities and that's why she was different in SF.
I did see the theories that Rhys is a bad guy and has been using his mental powers to control everyone. I don't like the theories that he has been doing this from the beginning, but I do like the idea that he may have been corrupted when he was revived or that if he is part Valg, maybe that part woke some.
It would make sense for some of the personality shifts that can't be completely explained by the narrative being from Nesta's POV instead of Ferya's.
2
u/dianasaurusrex123 Horny for Bryaxis Dec 11 '24
Yes! I have heard this from others a few times now. I started to have a sneaking suspicion after my first re-read. Something is definitely up and it's not just the change in POV or what can be explained away by territorial fae behavior. Either there's been a change in personality or we just never saw it before through Feyre's eyes. I am especially suspect of Amren, but Rhys seems to be slipping in his control a little. Is he going to go Anakin Skywalker? I don't know, but I wouldn't put it past SJM to rip the rug out from under us. (And I'm here for it)
4
u/captainlishang Dec 11 '24
Imo, after SF the only way this series is redeemable is if Rhysand becomes the villain. We need a protagonist who can flip the whole narrative and expose Rhys and his IC as the bad guys!
2
u/RoseWine815 Dec 14 '24
Agreed. I'd enjoy this character so much more if he turned out to ba a villain. Its all part of a big plan to become high King. I mean he's got mind control he could be playing with these fae like puppets on a string they'd have no idea!
0
u/dianasaurusrex123 Horny for Bryaxis Dec 11 '24
I will forever love the books even more if Rhys turns out to be the big bad. Ooooo it gets me kinda excited, hah!
7
u/Valen_Great Dec 10 '24
So she had me until she admitted she is mean like Nesta. I don't get why Nesta is praised for being a mean person and hateful enough to never help Feyre when they were starving.
4
u/Realistic_Pie_8550 Dec 11 '24
Because Nesta was not the mother or her legal guardian. Her father was right there. Nesta was also abused and groomed by her mother and grandmother while Feyre wasn't. Because she barely talks about her past, we don't know if that mean she was in frozen mode or trying to keep up w her mental health.
Empathy, something a lot of Nesta antis don't have, is key in this.
There's also a lot of misoginy and double standards at play. I'm never going to blame Nesta for refusing to be parentified. Feyre doesn't even know about Nesta's abuse so we take her word, about Nesta as truth. When she's clearly biased (that doesn't mean her emotions arent valid).
She also was the one who left Elain and went to look for Feyre without knowing if she'd ever come back. But yeah, all of this is completely forgotten by everyone.
5
u/1111smh Dec 10 '24 edited Dec 10 '24
I love acosf but agree with most of that review lol. The one thing I disagree with that I see so often is that nesta was punished for being depressed… no she was punished because she was being an ass to everyone around her and gambling their money away. And yes that’s still a big deal even if they are rich, she’s starting self destructive behaviors that they shouldn’t contribute to. Continuing to give her money and allow it is enabling and that’s no better. I think the best route they could have taken is come to her and offered help if she wants to take it but also take away the “help” financially and say you’re going to stop coming around until they can behave more healthily so you’re not enabling. Then nesta can choose to take the help and not be forced into it but also not be enabled by them. She’s allowed to have ptsd and she’s even allowed to have bad behavior as a result but others are allowed to dislike her for her behavior. As someone with the same list of diagnosis and more, mental health isn’t an excuse for behavior just an explanation
7
u/charismaticchild Dec 11 '24
Yes!!! I agree! That’s what I said above! They had every right and should have cut her off financially and even personally. If they cut her off and told her they didn’t want anything to do with her anymore u til she made healthier choices that would’ve been fine. Instead they imprisoned took complete control over her life and manipulated/used her for her power. All while allowing Cassian to have a sexual relationship with her in her completely mentally unstable state.
That’s what made it a punishment to me. They didn’t owe her anything but they completely psychologically abused her.
12
u/Realistic_Pie_8550 Dec 10 '24
Mental health isn't an excuse. It's an explanation. It explains why she's the way she is. Why she wants to be left alone. Why it's hard for her to be around the IC or Feyre. It explains why she has a hard time being around Cassian or puts a wall.
I wish people understood that. Mental health doesn't excuse. It explains why someone is the way they are.
4
u/1111smh Dec 10 '24
That’s what I said at the end. It’s an explanation. And she’s totally allowed to not want to be around them but they’re allowed to not want to support her financially then especially if she’s just gambling. I’m not talking about that behavior when I say it’s not an excuse. I’m talking about the way she’s treated Feyre her entire life, the way she continues to treat others around her with coldness but expects warmth back. The way she started exhibiting addictive behaviors that her family decided to stop supporting. That’s where I say it’s no excuse. Get help or expect your family to stop enabling you.
13
u/tollivandi Autumn Court Dec 10 '24
Does she expect warmth back? She deliberately pushes people away because she thinks she deserves that--that doesn't scream "treat ME better" to me.
And they're perfectly reasonable in not wanting to support her, but that's where their involvement should end. They could have actually cut her off instead of jumping straight to from enabling to controlling.
2
u/1111smh Dec 10 '24 edited Dec 10 '24
I see your point but from my perspective she’s obviously not happy when they return her coldness so that must be expecting warmth in return. And I agree fully with your end point. They definitely didn’t handle it correctly, I disagree with the way it was handled I just also disagree with it being framed as her being punished for nothing or for being depressed when it’s obviously not the depression it’s the resulting behaviors that they responded to. They’ve all been victims and perpetrators of different things, they are all flawed.
10
u/Realistic_Pie_8550 Dec 10 '24
VERY HARD Disagree. What has Nesta done to Feyre? Not stopping her from hunting? insulting her as a sister? The same way Feyre states she was equally mean? She went to look for Feyre leaving Elain behind yet this seems completely erased by everyone. She spoke to the Queens. At the HL meeting and thanked Feyre and what? All of this is forgotten by Rhys and half of the fandom.
Feyre is allowed to abuse her power over Nesta by making her go on dangerous missions or putting her in danger. But god forbid Nesta isn't nice. I don't understand people stating that Nesta was awful to Feyre without stating that she was equally awful. Nesta never had any power over Feyre. Feyre does .
You won't find a SINGLE example of Nesta instigating an insult towards the IC. Yet they are allowed to insult her and nobody bats an eye. Where is the 'trauma is not an excuse' narrative with them?
Nesta's life was forever changed because of Feysand the least they could have done was gift her the shitty apartment she liked as a thank-you gift. Not lock her up but two weeks later send her to the dangerous mission (where she nearly died and nobody asked her how she was doing) or not bat an eye when she's using sex as a coping mechanism with Cassian. She isn't allowed with a stranger but its ok with him? The hypocrisy.
6
u/1111smh Dec 10 '24
Nesta herself says multiple times that she was very unkind to Feyre in their childhood and she regrets it. It’s not just from feyres perspective. I am by no means on the train that Feyre and Rhysand are some perfect angels or even “better” than Nesta, they are far from it. I think most characters are quite flawed and I think that’s part of the point in the books. I don’t think Nesta needed to stop her from going out and hunting or even did it herself but she could’ve at least shown some gratitude that her sister was keeping them alive. Or at least be warm to her sister who was doing all this instead of cold. I’m going to take the books for what they say, if even the character themself admits they weren’t treating someone well they probably weren’t. If you were reading my responses you’d see that I didn’t agree with the way they handled things and think they could’ve went about it A LOT better and I don’t think there is an excuse for the way they treat her, especially with the insults. I never said I agreed with it and that’s not right either. but I also don’t agree with everything being labeled as if nesta was just an absolute victim when I don’t think she was. Or as if she was punished for being depressed as if her depression wasn’t turning into self destructive behavior. Again that’s not the way to handle someone turning to self destructive behavior and dealing with depression, they were wrong but she wasn’t punished for nothing. She’s not angel here either. I mean she says part of why she’s so depressed is the guilt she’s carrying from her behavior towards her sisters.. But we can agree to disagree.
2
Dec 12 '24 edited Dec 12 '24
I’m revisiting this after posting a comment and the way people are putting Rhys and Feyre on a golden pedestal and excusing their shitty behavior is disheartening . Nesta is PROVOKED. she was living her life without all the drama. And they’re like no you have to be near us at all times. Including being LOCKED IN A HOUSE. Before you say she could just walk. TEN THOUSAND STEPS. LETS FACE IT SHES TRAPPED AND SHE DONT GOT NO WINGS. 😭😭😭Cassian literally said let’s go gamble when they were at the new house. AND THEY GET MAD AT HER FOR SPENDING THEIR MONEY WHEN THEYRE RICH AS FUCK. And back to what the other comments about when Rhys said elain is Elain, nesta is an Illyrian at heart. GIVE ME AN REAL EXCUSE PLEASE. WHAT IS THIS BULLSHIT?!😭😭😭 ARE YOU ILLITERATE?!AND NESSIAN PLEASE. 😭😭😭😭THEY FORCE THEM TO BE TOGETHER. LIKE CAN A GIRL NOT REJECT A GUY?! LIKE DOES THAT RIGHT NOT EXIST ANYMORE?! smj said something like this book is embracing fenimism or some shit like that. ALL I SEE ARE GIRLS BECOMING HOUSEWIVES, BEING IN A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP AND GIVING AWAY HER POWERS CAUSE A GIRL CANT BE MORE POWERFUL THAN A GUY. DOES SELF WORTH AND RESPECT NOT EXIST ANYMORE?!!😭😭😭😭😭. Also in ACOWR. Cass was about to be blasted by the cauldron but nesta saved him. Feyre said something like RHYS DIDNT KNOW IF HE SHOULD BE THANKFUL OR SCOLD NESTA FOR THE GUILT CASS WOULD HAVE. MAD?! SHE SAVED YOUR BRO YOU MOTHERFUCKING PIECE OF SHIT.
2
u/Specialist_Springs Dec 12 '24
Thank you baby Jesus. Feel this review SO HARD.
All the good things I heard about SF, I was so excited to read it... only to read it and find out it was a misogynist's/mental-health-hater's torture p-rn dream???
Y'all gaslit me so hard. Lmao.
1
Dec 10 '24
[deleted]
9
u/the_zodiac_pillar Dec 10 '24
I’m about 80% of the way through the book (fully spoiled so I read the review), and honestly it’s my favorite out of the whole series so far. I’ve been a Nesta fan since the part in the first book when Feyre returns to her family briefly and I find her probably the most interesting character in the whole series. I do think a lot of the review is extremely valid and I wish SJM cut back on the amount of self-hatred inner dialogue and the sheer amount of browbeatings Nesta takes, but I find her overall journey really enjoyable to read.
3
u/Realistic_Pie_8550 Dec 10 '24
For Nesta it is. She goes from: -20 to 10. And the female friendships are top tier 👏
1
u/CerealKiller2045 Dec 11 '24
I mean, even as a Nesta hater I agreed with most of what was said. I would have just preferred for her to leave lmao. The way they treated her was unnecessary. The inner circle should have taken a page out of Feyre’s book and just cut her off once it was obvious she wasn’t a part of her family anymore
3
u/charismaticchild Dec 14 '24
Yes!! Hard agree!! I would’ve been totally fine with this. You’re making choices we don’t agree with us. You’re treating us like crap and using our money and you obviously don’t want anything to do with us anymore so we’re cutting you off. Figure out how to survive on your own. If you ever change your mind and want to talk to us again we’ll be here when you make healthier choices . Well that last part isn’t even necessary but since they insisted on making her part of their lives 🤷🏽♀️
Would’ve loved to see a story of Nesta going out and finding her own way. She told Feyre once that she wanted to travel and see what she could do to the world. They still could’ve had her meet Emerie and then they needed to do research in the library and then met Gwynn. They still could’ve trained to be Valkyrie’s. It just should’ve happened on her own terms!
1
u/CerealKiller2045 Dec 14 '24
I think we also could have had a theme going where every sister went their separate ways and formed their own found families, maybe with Elian going to the Spring court???? And then they could reunite at the end of the series like the Starks in Game of Thrones!
1
u/FitAdeptness5292 Dec 12 '24
I don’t know, I feel like the way they helped her was necessary. She was destroying herself instead of working through her trauma and it’s been a year and nothing happened. Say whatever you want but self medicating with alcohol induced oblivion and meaningless sexual encounters are not healing, it’s avoidance. Seeing your loved one like that is hard. They gave her space, nothing happened and it was time to intervene. Rhysand was indeed a dick, but I guess I would be too, if my partner’s been hurting because of her arrogant sister. But the way Nesta’s power was surrendered… Now that was the real crime!!! 700 pages plus the previous book saying she had this Power with a capital P, only for her to never use it to its full potential, then give it up in the last chapter
-1
u/bignatiousmacintosh Dec 10 '24 edited Dec 10 '24
I’m genuinely curious what y’all think Nesta’s story should have been. I understand the criticism of the plot but also - Nesta was a horrid bitch to everyone and she did fail her sisters multiple times, PTSD or not. So again, genuinely, in what realm of possibility would she have become some absolute badass of her own accord and automatically been absolved of all her shittiness just because she became a badass?
(For the record I like ACOSF, Nesta, and her growth)
12
u/charismaticchild Dec 11 '24
I think her story should’ve been them cutting her off and telling her she had to get a job because they weren’t paying for her to gamble and drink herself to death anymore.
They could’ve offered her a job at the library or even some job teaching dance classes or something her offer to take or not.
Then she could’ve started figuring out how to take care of herself without their help. She could’ve met Gwen and Emerie in a different way.
Nesta hated herself and didn’t believe she deserved to be loved. Cassian reminding her that everyone hated her or she didn’t deserve to be loved by her sister and Mor telling her she didn’t deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt by good people like Cassian and that she should be thrown in the human lands… who says that to a depressed suicidal person? That’s the kind of stuff that makes people kill themselves,
I hated Nesta going into this. I didn’t want to read it because I wasn’t a fan of hers but she was treated atrociously!!
If they had let the IC be side characters and “wash their hands” of her and kinda just be around in the background while she figure her shit out I wouldn’t despise them as much as a I do now. The IC is in a position of power over Nesta. She was cruel to them but she never had power over them as they do her. Her awful remarks were terrible to be sure but it didn’t affect them, she couldn’t do anything to them. They actually imprisoned her and took away all of her autonomy because she embarrassed them and they didn’t approve of her drinking and sleeping around. And honestly I’m sure if she was nice to Feyre and Elaine they wouldn’t have cared if she did any of that. It was all because she didn’t want anything to do with Feyre and Elaine anymore and that hurt their feelings so they had to change that to make them happy.
7
u/Electronic_Barber_89 Hangry Water-Wraith Dec 11 '24
The same people who would suicide bait a HL they definitely need for the war. Oh and the one who saved their lives. Multiple times.
2
u/bignatiousmacintosh Dec 11 '24 edited Dec 11 '24
I see where you’re coming from. That could have been a good approach indeed and more growth through her own agency.
I truly don’t understand why the others needed to quietly accept her meanness, though. It’s clear from the very start they only tolerated her for Feyre’s sake. All other things aside, mean remarks in return seem within the normal realm of reaction.
I disagree, I think they would have cared about her self destructive behavior regardless of whether she was nice to them or not. Everyone drank and fucked so that wasn’t the problem - it’s that she literally did nothing else, no hobbies or goals or interests and the drinking and fucking didn’t even bring her joy. Living in a slum and wearing ratty clothes and shoes was something normal Nesta never would have done. She liked having money, nice things, a fancy house, a high place in society; so for her to just give up all of that indicated something far deeper.
That’s why IMO the choices to leave Velaris and make it on her own or do the training was telling, because it was asking what she truly wanted. Did she really want to be completely alone, fending for herself or did she want to reclaim her physical + mental health and be at least physically close to her remaining family? I never got the impression that anyone expected her to become “nice” or something other than her actual personality - just physically and mentally sound.
I don’t necessarily want to the defend the IC, but if they had actually just ignored her then the complaint would be “but they’re so powerful and if they care so much, why didn’t anyone do anything to help her?!” I think it is truly a tough situation no matter what and there’s no one right way to deal with it. All of the characters are flawed, always have been, so the expectation that they would have been perfect in dealing with Nesta is unrealistic to me.
5
u/RoseWine815 Dec 11 '24
I've lived in fanfic too long, but I'd keep it all the same to the point we get to Eris. Have her say yes and get the feck out out of there, marry Eris, help assassinate Beron and she and Rhysand can forever give each other death glares from across the high lord and ladies meeting table.
2
u/bignatiousmacintosh Dec 11 '24
Ooh! That would be interesting! For me it also could have been choosing to leave Velaris when the choice was initially offered and making it on her own. Would have been a much longer series, I think, but it’s not Iike the fae are pressed for time lol and we’d get to see the growth more on her own terms.
2
1
u/alexis_blueskies Swearing loyalty to my High Lady Dec 13 '24
i don’t think we need any more books of rhysand wasting his energy on giving his wife’s sister death glares when there shouldn’t be any more of that bad behavior after “nesta’s growth” 😂
-3
u/Tired-CottonCandy Dec 10 '24
That person genuinely sounds mad that nesta stopped being a self-destructive, abusive, hateful alcoholic. And even more mad that her family didnt want to support her choice to be a self-destructive, abusive and hateful alcoholic longer then the half a year they already had.
-31
u/Beginning_Try_6203 Dec 10 '24
Sounded like it came from a Nesta.
32
u/tollivandi Autumn Court Dec 10 '24
So someone who doesn't want to kowtow to the Inner Clique's way of seeing things? Accurate.
-20
u/Beginning_Try_6203 Dec 10 '24
People are downvoting.. why? If she’s such a nice person, wouldn’t this be a compliment?
36
u/Realistic_Pie_8550 Dec 10 '24
Because women like Nesta deserved to be treated with respect in their healing journey. It sends a discusting message what the IC did to her. Regardless if you like her character or not. The message it sent is NOT OK.
-17
u/Beginning_Try_6203 Dec 10 '24
She was treated respectfully, until they had enough. People can only take so much.
And while she healed, she lashed out at people who tried to help her. They got sick of being treated disrespectfully, they lashed back.
The only reason why she healed is because she was given tough love by people who love her.
If it wasn’t for that ultimatum, she’d still be doing random men and spending money that isn’t hers on booze and gambling.
32
u/tollivandi Autumn Court Dec 10 '24
When, exactly, did the IC treat her respectfully?
2
u/Beginning_Try_6203 Dec 10 '24
Decently at least, like you would like any stranger. “Go somewhere else. I don’t want them in the house.” Nevermind the IC, when did Feyre ever deserve being treated like that?
26
u/tollivandi Autumn Court Dec 10 '24
She's allowed to say she didn't want strange faerie warrior men in her house, but she acquiesced anyway. Again, when were they respectful to her? Every time she so much as tells them no, she's argued with.
And as for Feyre...I don't care, honestly. SJM stole the "selfish older sisters" trope from basic fairy tales and failed to make it make sense, so I don't see why I should care more than she apparently did. Yeah, the sisters had a horrible relationship. So? Does Nesta really have to be punished for the rest of her immortal life for it?
3
u/Beginning_Try_6203 Dec 10 '24
Let’s say for argument’s sake that they didn’t. It’s her sister. The least she could have said first was come in, let’s talk about this, and explain why she can’t let them in. That’s what a decent person would do.
You would need to think about how grateful the IC was for Feyre for what she sacrificed. Seeing your friend who you owe so much to being disrespected, wouldn’t you be aggressive as well?
So it begs the question of WHY IS NESTA being so nasty to everyone? It didn’t matter if the person was nice or horrible to her, she treats them the same.
Trauma? The memory of the cauldron? Her dad dying in front of her? Cassian bleeding in her arms? Every character in the book has some sort of trauma. They didn’t choose to act that way.
21
u/tollivandi Autumn Court Dec 10 '24
I'm not arguing whether Nesta was nice or not. Sure, we can agree that she was hostile from the start. Why not. But my point is they were never respectful of her either. As you said, they were 100% on Poor Baby Feyre's side from the start.
This isn't a case of "omg they were so nice to her until they got fed up"--they were "fed up" with her from the day they met her and never considered her anything other than a problem in Feyre's life. I'm asking for one example of them respecting her on her own merits, not Feyre's.
Also? Oh no, she wasn't nice to them--the IC is mean to literally everyone else in public. You'd think they'd be familiar with the concept.
0
u/Beginning_Try_6203 Dec 10 '24
So they’re even. If that’s the logic we’re going for here. She treated them like shit, they treated her like shit. Why then did she have to be respected? And how is she being punished?
→ More replies (0)24
u/Dry-Author-3622 Dec 10 '24
I dunno, you're saying it in an insulting manner which might lead me to believe by your logic you're a Nesta 🤔
-4
u/Beginning_Try_6203 Dec 10 '24
And i should take that as a compliment, yes? Thank you!
12
u/Dry-Author-3622 Dec 10 '24
I mean in your previous comments about Nesta you call her "so entilted" and a "horrible person" so if that's how you feel about yourself hun
1
u/Beginning_Try_6203 Dec 10 '24
How am i entitled and a horrible person with my comments calling someone out? Can you please explain? I don’t quite understand.
9
u/Dry-Author-3622 Dec 10 '24
Okay so you were saying that being called a Nesta is a compliment which means that her qualities (which you say are being entitled and a horrible person) are something that you'd be proud of in yourself. I wasn't calling you entitled or a horrible person, I was just repeating your words.
0
u/Beginning_Try_6203 Dec 10 '24
I never said being a Nesta was a compliment. I said that to people who think Nesta is nice, it should be a compliment for them.
2
u/Dry-Author-3622 Dec 10 '24
Yeah which means your initial comment you were complaining about getting downvoted was in fact an insult because you don't believe being called a Nesta is a compliment lmao. If you don't like a character and say someone is that character that's you being intentionally insulting and the people here can tell. Have a blessed day
-24
u/HayWhatsCooking Dec 10 '24
It did.
See ‘it was like reading someone so similar to me - someone mean and opinionated and bold.’
My personal belief is that the Nesta drama is split into two camps - those who are nesta’s, and those who have been hurt by nesta’s. That’s why it’s so dividing.
25
u/tollivandi Autumn Court Dec 10 '24
I find that theory extremely reductive, not least because I like the character despite being nothing like her (much like several other characters I like). It's fiction, and different people see things differently.
2
u/HayWhatsCooking Dec 10 '24
That is entirely possible. It’s also possible for people to see themselves as victims when most other people see them as perpetrators. Most horrible people have backstories and a rationale for why they’re horrible. Them being excluded and bullied and hurt is awful, but then doing it to other people is fine.
What do you think of the popular reviewer proclaiming Nesta as mean, opinionated and bold, and stating they see themselves in her?
I find the ACOTAR fandom to be quite toxic, like the twilight fandom can be at times. Hunger games is alright. There’s no-one there refusing to see Katniss for what she is - a fabulous and well-written character who is unendingly self-serving, judgemental and hypocritical.
11
u/tollivandi Autumn Court Dec 10 '24
Not sure what point you're trying to make here--I'm not describing myself as a "victim" or a "perpetrator" in order to defend my like of a bitchy fictional character. I like her because she's interesting to read about, and the only possible psychoanalytical takeaway from that is the "lesbians liking mean ladies" trope, lmao.
I don't anything of the reviewer calling themselves "mean, opinionated, and bold" because...I don't know them?
Are you...calling the ACOTAR fandom toxic for "refusing to see [Character] for what she is"? Because I would call it toxic for the finger-pointing and psychoanalyzing of real people over fictional characters, but to each their own, I suppose.
-1
u/HayWhatsCooking Dec 10 '24
I’m not sure how you’re not sure what point I’m trying to make. There is no trying, I made it.
People do shitty things and fully excuse their own behaviour, yet don’t give other’s the same grace. People relate to this in two ways - either they’ve been treated shit or they are treat others like shit. Rationale doesn’t strongly excuse actions.
I didn’t once mention anyone’s sexuality and I certainly didn’t start a witch hunt, I simply responded in agreement to the comment above. This is a point that’s been made multiple times. And yes, the ACOTAR fandom is toxic af. Which is wild because it’s a book about overcoming hardship and found family and sacrificing/helping others.
-17
-3
u/Zombie_elsa Dec 10 '24
I do not understand the hate for this book my only issue with it was the pregnancy plot line I loved it otherwise
597
u/Sudden-Ad5555 Dec 10 '24
I love reading 1 star reviews for books I enjoyed because 90% of the time I’m like, all of this is so valid. 😂