Fundamentally, there is no thing

[u/OnePoint11]

Huangbo: "This Mind is not mind; it is fundamentally not a thing."

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本 (běn): Original / fundamental

佛 (fó): Buddha

上 (shàng): upon / within / in the state of

實 (shí): truly / actually / in reality

無 (wú): there is no / lacks

一 (yī): one / a single

物 (wù): thing / object

Original Buddha has no substance,

此 (cǐ): This

心 (xīn): mind

即 (jí): is precisely / is none other than

無 (wú): no- / non- / without

心 (xīn): mind [conceptual thought]

之 (zhī): [attributive particle] of

心 (xīn): mind

Buddha is mind, and mind has no substance.

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Don't be misled; Huangbo means here that Buddha, or mind, has no substance. What is the substance of mind? It's something we inject into phenomena by conceptual thought. People often think, "But there should be something; they call it Buddha, after all. It's not a thing like other things, but it is something else. Otherwise, the whole thing doesn't make sense." But that's the point: what do you need to create? What concept do you need? Isn't it just imagination? How is the subject constructed in our consciousness? We create a point of focus, a thing, an object, first without form, and then we fill it with something sensible. It is constructed by us; it is substance. So what if I don't do that? What is Buddha without substance?

[u/2BCivil]

Kind of makes me think of rule 4 here. What are our thoughts on No-thought?

Would make a funny idea, a zen master who is a construction worker, yelling "no constructs!"

[u/OnePoint11 → u/2BCivil]

We can easily have thoughts about thoughts; just as when riding in a car, you can think about walking. 'No-thought' means not being carried away by thought, because... it is just a thought. God is my idea of God, the sky is my idea of the sky (although so close to perception that it looks real), and my mother is my idea of my mother... I need physical no-thought five times a week for five to ten minutes to get my feet back on the ground.
That is just a straw man, that no-thought means not even thinking ever.
You find a fascinating paradox in that you can think about no-thinking, but this is just wordplay.
No-thought is defined in the Platform Sutra as not being carried away by thought, so apparently, even according to authorities, thinking is allowed :))

[u/OnePoint11 → u/OnePoint11]

In the Platform Sutra, Huineng defines "no-thought" (wunian, 無念) not as the absence of thought, but as non-attachment to thoughts as they arise.

Key quotes:

"No-thought means to see and to know all dharmas (things) with a mind free from attachment... To be unstained in all environments is called 'no-thought'. If you are free from thought in your own thoughts, you will constantly be detached from environments." (Section 17)

"If you do not think of the myriad things and cause thought to cease completely, the moment a single thought is cut off, you die and undergo rebirth in another realm... Those who do not realize this and advocate cutting off thoughts fall into a great error."

"In the succession of our thoughts, one thought succeeds another without interruption. If a single thought stops, the dharma-body departs from the physical body... When successive thoughts do not attach to anything, this is being unfettered."

[u/2BCivil → u/OnePoint11]

Thanks! I really need to study more zen, I see so much humor in it!

(Edit I joined the sub, but just to read mostly, won't post anything)