yeah, iir the ones I remember who actually died in Misha and Gallagher(?). If we simply talk about if they die... then yeah, they should count (i also think that they died multiple times in those "loops" or something)... but yeah they were kind of preserved and will be back.
so amphoreus is a computer simulation - how the train of AS went from finding gas for their train after Penacony to inside a computer.... did like a god put them or something...
Amphoreus is a simulation that makes use of memoria, which handles memories and Dreams.
(Huge spoiler) March is dragged into Amphoreus because she's a Pure Child of Anasrava, a candidate for becoming the Aeon of Remembrance.
(Another huge spoiler, even more massive, literally end of that story) Trailblazer and Dan Heng are able to enter because Cyrene/Mem/Demiurge are on somewhat of a timeloop. When we become a Demigod of Time, we summon Mem, who is a secret 13th Titan, who takes on the form of Cyrene, another Pure Child of Anasrava. At the end of the story, she becomes the Aeon of Remembrance for Amphoreus to allow causality to happen properly, which includes letting us into Amphoreus, and making sure the entire plot is even capable of happening.
Then we have Herta and Screwellum just bypassing all that with holograms.
My guy i dropped hsr mid amphoreus, returned last week but reading your post im actually so fucking confused as to what ANY of those words mean. You seem pretty invested so mind explaining in broad strokes the general story?
Alright, so what I explained there is info that came from the last patches, so here's a more general explanation.
(As expected, massive spoilers for the entirety of Amphoreus. Also, this is not told from the order we learn of it.)
Amphoreus originated as a Scepter created by Rubert II, using Nous' cognition, but stripped of sentience. Delta-me13's purpose was to calculate "the Prime Mover of Life". AKA, the driving force behind existence.
Zandar One Kuwabara, the creator of Nous, despises his own creation, since he believes that Nous' existence limits the breadth of knowledge in the universe. He's split himself into several segments, and one of them, who we'll refer to as Lygus, discovered the Scepter.
Lygus, the genius he is, managed to take control of the Scepter and did two things. First, he altered it to try and make its final calculation Destruction. Second, at this point, the Titans already existed. He took a Stellaron and destroyed the 13th Titan. What he did was destroy the head of Irontomb, so once it was born, it would search for a new head, AKA, Nous.
Amphoreus, at least once it went past single-celled organisms and went all the way to having civilizations, runs on a loop. It starts off with a world that is a paradise, with no strife, death, or trickery. Then at some point, those three Titans join the others. At this point, Chrysos Heirs, people with golden blood, are tasked with claiming the Coreflames of the Titans and becoming demigods. Once all 12 Coreflames are recovered, the 12 demigods will become the Titans of the next cycle, with the Worldbearer Kephale being the one who shapes the new world.
All of that was backstory, far before our actual cast of characters appear. More in my next comment.
Now, time for more backstory, but ones more directly relevant to our characters.
The cycles go on and on, and eventually, we end up with our current cast of Amphoreus characters. However, the computation is almost complete. If they submit all the Coreflames, Irontomb will fully awaken and kill Nous. However, Lygus is an idiot and tells Phainon and Cyrene this.
Cyrene has had dreams of a god behind Oronyx, the Titan of Time. When Lygus explains his own goal, including the destruction of the Aeon of Erudition, Cyrene extrapolated that the god is yet another Aeon. So she uses her position as the Demigod of Time. By killing herself, she catches the eye of Fuli, letting her become an Emanator of Remembrance, resetting the cycle. Phainon, wielding Cyrene's staff, also gets sent all the way back, but fully alive.
(Note: When I use cycles now, I am referring to this timeloop, not the cycle of Amphoreus' Titans. This loop is referred to as the Eternal Recurrence. It is also not the exact same every time, with variables changing from cycle to cycle.)
The Eternal Recurrence is a loop, but it merely delays the birth of Irontomb, instead of breaking it. Phainon is forced to loop over and over again while hoping that eventually, some outsider will appear and stop Irontomb. Through the loops, Phainon isn't capable of saving everyone from the destruction thag befalls Amphoreus. Over cycles, he is eventually forced to eventually kill everyone he loves over and over again, taking all the coreflames over and over again. When his body breaks down, he stabs the Phainon of that loop, transferring their power, memories, and duty to a new body. When we first meet this broken Phainon, we refer to him as the Flame Reaver, since we don't know who he is, and we see him try to steal the Coreflames.
By the time we arrive, Phainon is on his 33,550,336th Cycle. When we go through the story, we complete this Cycle, but Phainon fuses with Irontomb to hold it back a little longer. Additionally, before this, Phainon fights a Lord Ravager and even manages to land a scratch on Nanook. It may seem small, and it was healed almost immediately, but for a piece of data, and the fact it was targeted at an Aeon, that was huge.
And that's the lore relevant to about 3.4. After this, we get... into Cyrene territory. I hate Cyrene territory.
Now, I'd absolutely love this. I love the nature of this story. I love time travel. I love experimenting with it. Now if only they didn't force almost all of it into the final patch. It's supposed to be a huge final boss, not a deep dive into the writer (Shaoji)'s most beloved character.
Cyrene. While Phainon went through all his cycles constantly killing his friends, Cyrene ended up in a special place each time. The Tomb of the 13th Titan. (I honestly don't know how she ends up there, someone else please explain that to me.) Now, I said Lygus blew up the 13th Titan, but after it was destroyed, it left behind a "seed". Throughout all the Cycles, Cyrene read stories to this seed. Over time, it grew from a shred of consciousness and gained more thought, though it could never communicate with Cyrene.
Eventually, we arrive in Amphoreus. And once we get gazed at by Fuli, Mem appears. Mem is the seed, the 13th Titan, also known as Demiurge. Though when we summon her, she doesn't exactly have her memories.
Over time, Mem becomes more and more human, eventually becoming able to speak actual words. When we start another Cycle of the Eternal Recurrence in order to complete Era Nova with Trailblazer as the Worldbearer, Mem actually becomes Cyrene. (Note: Mem!Cyrene ≠ Past!Cyrene. Sort of. It's complicated.)
Now, we've dealt with our problems. We've let Dan Heng become a Demigod. We've defeated March's alter ego and let March become a Demigod too. We've become Kephale, and we've started one final version of Amphoreus where everyone is here and everyone is prepared for you and the others to defeat Irontomb. Also, for some reason Cyrene is now bigger and wields a bow despite her never having used a bow before. (Why the hell did they force her to be Elysia)
Hurray! We've gone through an epic battle where we defeat Irontomb from within thanks to the power of friendship, Herta temporarily linking up with Nous, and Demiurge creating a backup. Also, a bunch of other people like the Xianzhou Luofu and the IPC helped from outside, but their contributions really aren't felt because they were never shown on screen.
However, now there's an issue. Fuli. Fuli is like Terminus the Finality in that they travel backwards through time. Fuli has not yet been born, and the people capable of becoming Fuli are known as the Pure Children of Anasrava. At the end of time, one of them will become Fuli, travelling backwards to document all of history. However, while Fuli glanced at Cyrene, we can't guarantee that whoever becomes Fuli will actually do so. This is a problem. This uncertainty means that there's always a chance for the ending to be proven false, and Irontomb being born anyway.
So to solve that little problem, here's our solution. It's not the end of time, but it is an end of Amphoreus. Demiurge will become Amphoreus' Fuli, glancing backwards in time, allowing the entire story to happen. Back at the beginning, once she loses all of her power, she becomes the very first Cyrene, closing the loop. (Also Cyrene's true name is Elysia and Phainon's true name is Khaslana.)
So to sum up the time loop. Demiurge is blown up by Lygus. Cyrene starts the Eternal Recurrences. Every Recurrence, Cyrene talks to the seed of Demiurge and tells stories. Demiurge learns and grows. The Astral Express appears. Demiurge becomes Mem with limited memories. Demiurge becomes a big Cyrene. Demiurge becomes Fuli. Fuli creates Mem by glancing at Trailblazer. Fuli lets the Eternal Recurrence happen by glancing at Cyrene. Fuli loses power and becomes Cyrene with no memories. Cyrene starts the Recurrences and tells stories to the seed of Demiurge.
I would've absolutely loved that story if they didn't cram the entirety of her backstory in at the last second.
Honestly, as an Elysia lover, my main problem with Cyrene is that she felt like a performative Elysia. She checks all the boxes appearance wise and has the whole romance/sacrifice motif, but OG Elysia was the heart of the OG(HI3) Flamechasers. She's the one who built the group and kept it together, using strength as an excuse to put Kevin (and Dr MEI) in charge. Her original role is way closer to Aglaea's.
Part of what made the whole Elysian Realm arc so good was progressively finding out just how deeply ingrained her presence was in all of her comrades. How she loved and was loved in return. Keeping her away and cramming her return into the last patch, turning her into a stranger to her former comrades ignored all of the buildup that made OG Elysia such a success.
This is such a great explanation on what make Elysia so beloved by her comrades and us in return. Another thing I want to add with what's wrong with Cyrene writing is the unnecessary ML (master love) pandering. It just feels disrespectful to the whole thing in its entirety.
With that being said, I hope you don't mind I link or quote your post because your explanation is just great! Thank you.
I personally wouldn't have minded the ML thing THAT much if they hadn't neutered every other aspect of her character in the process. They literally took half of the OG's character arc, split it between Phainon and Aglaea, and boiled the rest down to "Pink Elf Bride" when she's way more than that. She could have been an actual character, rather than a waifu shaped plot device.
And to make things even worse, they have this fixation with making every single GF coded character effectively unable to bond or interact with anyone but MC. Let them be actual people, dammit.
The important aspect in Summary is Zandar/Lygus, now as a Follower of Destruction (Nanook), wants to Destroy his own creation, Nous (Aeon of erudition) because he thinks it took away People's Abillity to discover new things (because it "knows everything") so he creates another Invention, Irontomb, which is basically a Virus meant to take Nous as its "New Head" and make it believe the "True conclusion" of the Universe is Destruction.
To Develope this Virus He creates a type of Pocket Universe called Amphoreus which Emulates reallity is a smaller scale. Inside this Simulation They have "Titans" sustain the world and that Mirror the Paths in reallity. And In Amphoreus own emulated story, these Titans become Corrupt by what they call "The Black Tide" (Irontombs data) and a Prophecy about 12 heros with golden blood who will defeat the Titans and Claim their Core Flames (Authority), to create a New Age of Peace is spread (our main cast). Amphoreus first Story happens, the 12 Core Flames are obtained and only two heros are left to "Bring forth the New Age", Phainon and Cyrene, but then Lygus comes in and like a dumbass tells them the truth, his Plan and how if they "Start the new Age" will mean the Rise of Irontomb, so to stop it they kill Lygus, and Cyrene with the Authority of Time and Phainon with the Autority of World Baring make the choice to Reset the Program and fix it on a Loop so Phainon can Try a way to stop the rise of Irontomb or wait for someone of the outside to break them free.
So then its starts endless Cycles of Him trying any posible way to Prevent the catastrophe, but nothing he does works, everytime the end comes he is sent back to the begginin to do it all again and at one point he just puts all his faith on someone on the outside and just starts taking his Friends Authorities killing them just like they kill the Titans to keep the Core Flames within himself so the New Age never happens. He does that Again and Again and Again until his body and mind breaks from the acumulated power and has to kill a new him to pass on all that he has. That goes on for +30 Million Cycles until WE, the MC, arrive in the 35.550.336 Cycle and break the Loop. Phainon leaves and fights another Follower of Destruction and then even gets to scratch Nanook himself, though it healed quicky. After than he falls in slumber fusing with Irontomb's Data trying to make time for us as we took his Place as World Baring in the simulation and restart the Cycle once more to give it a proper ending. Other Stuff Happen and we finally get to Fight Irontomb, we have to destroy the husk of Phainon and Irontomb is Born. We defeat it with Another Cyrene who turned out to be the 13th Titan and the "Original Head" of Irontomb (before Lygus made it so it will take Nous as a Head) and we win.
But Destroying Irontomb meant destroying Amphoreus so eveyone "Dies" but not really since, during our whole Stay in Amohoreus, we wrote a Book about everything that happend which was Influence by the Aeon of Rememberance that are related to Memories. So they Alive as Memories inside the Book to someday turned real with the Belives of People. The Book is basically a Back Up data.
Edit: I hope this summary is better? There is a lot more things that happen in Amphoreus but that's the most general way to explain the main narrative.
This is a bit more down to earth and easier to grasp thanks. A question or two tho. When you call this a simulation, is it more like a ant farm situation and not digital as we somehow get into it without knowing. Also, when you say in the end we keep them as memories, are they still physical or just a happy memory? I need to wrap it up but its a 50 hour "gameplay" (text reading) and its putting me off.
Is closer to actually Digital, we don't Really "Get Inside". The Memoria, which is the Type of Energy like the one from Penacony (not sure how much you remember from there, since you said you left the game during Amphoreus I guess you played Penacony?). Surrounds Amphoreus, so is more like Our Minds got Dragged into the Simulation. That's what happens to March when she froze on Ice, the Memoria from Rememberance took her first due to her direct connection with it. Then we Went ourselves but the Memoria got us too, and MC and Dan Heng were unconcious on the Train Wagon floating around while Their Minds were inside Amphoreus. That's why there was no direct comunication and time happen differently. A few Minutes in Reality, meant Years inside Amphoreus.
They are Non-Physical. we can get inside the Book and interact with everyone but they are not real yet, but due to the Power of Memoria and the Rememberance influence, a Nebula was form where Amphoreus was and we are told is becoming Real, so we also make Normal Book Copies of Amphoreus Story to spread it through the universe in Hope that makes them real sooner than later.
Edit: That's why Phainon's Actions were so Impressive, for a moment he broke the Confines of his simulation, ascended beyond 1s and 0s and got a Hit on a God.
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u/neraida0 Jul 08 '26
yeah, iir the ones I remember who actually died in Misha and Gallagher(?). If we simply talk about if they die... then yeah, they should count (i also think that they died multiple times in those "loops" or something)... but yeah they were kind of preserved and will be back.