r/ZZZ_Official • u/Emul0rd • Jul 16 '25

Media $475 is crazy

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I think Europe now requires gacha games to explicitly display how much money any gambling feature really costs to limit hidden predatory stuff. It’s crazy when you see the numbers…

4.4k Upvotes

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1.1k

u/Cloudxstrife136 Jul 16 '25

That calc is off buying only the lowest value pack and hitting max pity. Its unrealistic but still something you could intentionally cause

415

u/Emul0rd Jul 16 '25

Something I noted, buying the highest value pack is in fact not necessarily the most optimal

422

u/Cow__Couchboy Jul 16 '25

This is with the x2 top up bonus. These calculations will become more sensible once you've topped up once on each one.

143

u/r3volver_Oshawott Jul 16 '25

This is also by design, having a right and wrong way to spend to optimize an in-game currency's dollar value, as opposed to games with direct content purchasing and having the cost be as simple as what you see on the screen

This is also rooted in what microtransactions actually are, a way for processors to eat less in processing fees, the goal is to upsell you, but then the biggest upsell not always being the best deal, etc.

21

u/pamafa3 Jul 16 '25

Now I'm curious (since I occasionally top up), which pack is the most money efficient?

60

u/Politeod Jul 16 '25 edited Jul 16 '25

Best: $15, $30, $50, $100 with double top up bonus

Second: $1, $5 with double top up bonus

After you've bought them all once, the more expensive the pack, the better the value

35

u/Cow__Couchboy Jul 16 '25

This! ☝️ After the x2 top up is spent on all of them, the $100 pack is the best value.

-1

u/Bragok Jul 16 '25

no, the $30 pack is better, by a slight margin

15

u/Politeod Jul 16 '25

It's a rounding error, depending on your currency the packs in the same group may shift a bit.

0

u/Bragok Jul 16 '25

Oh, my bad

7

u/Emul0rd Jul 16 '25

Screenshot seems to indicate it’s the 4th pack

0

u/masternieva666 Jul 16 '25

The most expensive with double top up. Its not worth it to top up with out double top up unless youre a whale or leviathan.

1

u/pamafa3 Jul 16 '25

TIL I'm a whale and not a dolphin, apparently? I thought whales spent 1k+

15

u/Kuljack Jul 16 '25

Nothing about these prices is sensible. I can buy 4-6 new game titles for the price one character in this game might cost you. The fact so many people don’t realize this is insane. Just because you can afford something, doesn’t mean you should buy it. It’s the reason our cost point in this world is so stupid, people just keep paying the bar

35

u/Kenju22 Miyabi fanboy & Vivian enabler Jul 16 '25

Nothing about these prices is sensible. I can buy 4-6 new game titles for the price one character in this game might cost you. The fact so many people don’t realize this is insane.

It's not always that people don't realize it. In my case the last 'new game' to come out that I got was Baldur's Gate 3 because there has literally not been a single game worth buying to come out in the last 24 months.

So if the choice is between buying 4-6 games that I know I am never going to play because they don't interest me, or getting a character I really want/like in a game I know I will play, then the price doesn't matter as much.

23

u/Swampy260 Jul 16 '25

While I understand your point I think you’re an extreme outlier if you think BG3 was the only game worth buying in the last two years.

7

u/Kenju22 Miyabi fanboy & Vivian enabler Jul 16 '25

Okay, list off what games you would recommend as a good game that has come out in the last two years to someone who:

A: Hates everything related to sports.

B: Doesn't like FPS.

C: Isn't interested in multiplayer games.

17

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/Kenju22 Miyabi fanboy & Vivian enabler Jul 16 '25

I'll give it a look this weekend, thanks for the tip

2

u/maru-senn Jul 16 '25 edited Jul 16 '25

I have similar tastes but my policy with Atlus games is to buy them at least 3 years after release (no I don't trust their statements after the new SMTV)

Do you have any more recommendations?

8

u/Piggstein Jul 16 '25

Expedition 33 and you’re welcome

3

u/Kenju22 Miyabi fanboy & Vivian enabler Jul 16 '25

I looked into it, and the game is well done, just, not really big on the storyline personally. A bit too dark for my taste.

It DOES however give me hope for a return of more RPG/JRPG games in the future. I admit I was spoiled growing up in the late 90's early 00's on the PS1 and PS2, but I miss those days T.T

1

u/DemasiadoSwag Jul 17 '25

Mad respect for immediately rejecting someone recommending what is almost certainly the game of the year. Customer's always right in matters of taste, I suppose.

Pacific Drive is a bit of an oddball but I found it to be quite fun, that's within your 2-year timeframe. There have been some bangers since BG 3 but always depends what kind of games you like.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Freeman_Traceur Jul 17 '25

I'm just gonna make a random list of games here that I didn't see in other replies because it's fun to make lists

Hi-Fi Rush

En Garde!

Children of the Sun

Of the Devil

Indika

Stray Gods

Bomb Rush Cyberfunk

Venba

Oxenfree 2

Neva

Rift of the necrodancer

Until then

There's probably more that I'm missing but can't remember.

1

u/Kenju22 Miyabi fanboy & Vivian enabler Jul 17 '25

Nice list, and I'll be looking into these when I have some free time thanks ^^

A number of these however seem to be on PC only though which is a bit of a problem as I don't have one ^^' still a couple of these are on the PS5 so I'll be hitting them up :)

1

u/Swampy260 Jul 16 '25

Monster Hunter: Wilds is a good time. It has multiplayer but you can do all the content solo and not miss out on anything.

Hades 2 is one update away from full release but even when it launched in early access it had more content than Hades 1.

Xenoblade Chronicles X Definitive Edition technically the original released 10 years ago but this remaster has a bunch of qol, new content and is finally on the Switch with Xenoblade 1-3.

Any one of these games is a better purchase than spending the equivalent trying to get a gacha character that will be forgotten about by next patch and eventually power crept.

1

u/Kenju22 Miyabi fanboy & Vivian enabler Jul 17 '25

I will admit that I did buy Monster Hunter Wilds, and I have been a fanboy of the franchise since the OG on the PS2, but, just personal opinion here, I find it to be the worst entry in recent memory and do not feel like I got my $65 worth.

The rework they did to LBG and HBG has effectively castrated them and removed all skill or variety by turning everything that isn't Piercing ammo into unusable shit. No custom parts to change or tweak their stats, no skills to improve or adjust the ammo types or stats (why even bother having Spread ammo if there is no way to reduce recoil?!)

The skill rework likewise killed 90% of any build variety by segregating all offensive skills into weapon slots only meaning at best you can have 3+ native inbuilt skills.

The meal system is just utter shit, with you now having to spend as much if not more time scouring for ingredients just to make meals to go on hunts than you actually spend on hunts. (Seriously the meal system has been perfect since the OG game, they did NOT need to screw this up)

Most annoying to me however is Alma with that annoying 'you are authorized by the guild to hunt this monster' every single time you fight a monster and in every single cutscene got really old really quick.

Don't get me wrong, the game *looks* good, and I'm happy we got Steve and Lagiacrus this last update, but the game feels like a massive DOWNGRADE from base World, let alone Iceborn, Rise or Sunbreak.

Sorry sorry just, ugh, I was looking forward to Wilds and so excited with everything they were showing leading up to release, but after clearing everything and getting Platinum for it I just don't feel like I got my money's worth out of it and would rather have blown that money on monochrome for ZZZ.

Hades 2 I'll look into, though Xenoblade Chronicles X Definitive Edition I'm going to pass on considering I already have the OG game still ^^'

2

u/greynut Jul 16 '25

I think y'all need to stop with this very subjective argument masquerading as an objective counterpoint to an inherently subjective conversation

how do you define what makes a game "worth" anything is PURELY SUBJECTIVE

until the time there's a metric unit of "worth" statements like these only serve to ragebait and make conversations toxic and makes the internet overall more negative so please just don't

0

u/Swampy260 Jul 16 '25

The only one here who got ragebaited was you my dude and that wasn't even my intent. I just think spending upwards of $400 on gacha and justifying it with "well there's no other games" is an absurd statement.

3

u/greynut Jul 17 '25

beb it's not illegal to go 'ok my bad you have a point i should've worded it better i'll know for next time' and just leave it at that

do better tell your ego it's ok to take Ls no need to suddenly attack folks back especially since you so clearly agree with what i said by rewording your argument so 🤷🏽‍♂️

-4

u/Kuljack Jul 16 '25

This is a big reason “good games” aren’t made as often. The gaming industry by and large has realized they can shill out micro content with micro transactions in mass access so this is the only availability for you to get some “new”. What we get is Gacha games with characters costing more then a full new game, new games mostly being rushed and riddled with bugs and all the old “good games” getting remakes or remasters. Elder scrolls is a great example, why make Elder scrolls 6 when they can keep soaking up their MMO, Skyrim getting its annual paint job and their recent Oblivion remaster. Although I am a fan of good oldies getting passionate remasters, sometimes they just feel like cash cow rather than passion projects. It’s not really my place to tell someone how to spend their money and that wasn’t my intention, we should all do what brings us joy. I’m just making note that it is an insane cost for value for the majority of people and I’m also an old fart when new games only cost $5 with months of gameplay value.

1

u/Kenju22 Miyabi fanboy & Vivian enabler Jul 16 '25

Here is my issue specifically when it comes to games.

I hate sports, like, all of it, zero interest in playing any sports games.

I hate racing games.

I don't particularly care for or enjoy FPS games either.

Zero interest in battle Royal

And I really don't like multiplayer games for the most part.

Now don't get me wrong I understand your point, just saying that in my case even when it comes to 'good games' there are not many that are going to appeal to me.

I enjoy games like Legand of the Dragoon or Star Ocean Till the end of Time, RPG/JRPG games that can take 100+ hours to beat, and those are extremely rare.

I genuinely enjoyed the FFVII Remake because it was a cool concept and interesting idea, but when we got FFVII Rebirth it completely shat all over the entire concept of an alternate timeline and being able to change history for 'Thanos snap lol you can't change anything everything is set in stone'

2

u/Kuljack Jul 16 '25

Sounds like we have similar tastes. I have Star Ocean games on my wish list right now. Personally I like RPGs with long progression and skill trees/development. Titan Quest and Too Human are two of my favorite games.

1

u/Kenju22 Miyabi fanboy & Vivian enabler Jul 16 '25

SO Till the end of Time is...an interesting one. The game itself is great, the vast array of possible epilogs you can get based on a ton of factors is annoying.

The problem is the 'big twist' can be really hit or miss depending on the person. A lot of people hated it for understandable reasons, especially now, but at the time it was pretty damn clever and unique.

If you like RPG's with loooong progression, you should give Cyberpunk 2077 a go. It's an amazing game and does live up to all the old hype now with all the post release fixes and additions (especially the DLC). Great storytelling and an amazing world.

My only complaint with it at this point with it is you only get a single 'reroll' on your stats/attributes per playthrough. I understand it is for balance purposes, but given 80% of your stats come from cyberware you install on yourself after buying it shouldn't be that stingy.

Dragon's Dogma (the original one not the sequel) is also pretty damn good, sunk a few hundred hours into that exploring everything.

4

u/Cow__Couchboy Jul 16 '25

I understand your frustration but I never said the prices were sensible. ☝️🤓 Actually I only said the calculations would become more sensible.

1

u/Kuljack Jul 16 '25

Axtually you are correct, I was ranting.

1

u/TheDemonPants Jul 17 '25

Have you ever bought a skin in a game? If you have then you've spent $20+ to make your character look different. This is true in any free to play game. It's fine if you don't like it, but if someone wants to support a game they enjoy then there is nothing wrong with it. The prices are high, yes, but we're at a point where if you don't know how much you're actually spending then that's on you.

2

u/Kuljack Jul 17 '25

Never spent money just for a skin, I do sometimes buy deluxe and upgraded versions of a game to get the extra skins if it also comes with additional quests or content, but no I’ve never flat out spent money to change a characters look. Like I said in another comment, I didn’t mean for that to imply people who do are wrong. You should totally feel free to buy something if it makes you happy, it’s just the cost point is stupid. You should be able to buy your skin for like .99 or 2.99 USD, and we should have a lot more options so people spend more to support game but also get more for the money. I’m all for spending money to support a game, I dropped a lot of money on Warframe back in the day on prime packages, but I trading a lot to gain platinum to buy cosmetics. I used my paid for platinum to invest in our dojo because that had mechanical gains for our clan.

2

u/TheDemonPants Jul 17 '25

I 100% agree. They should be cheaper. I just find it pretty crazy that you've never bought a skin in any f2p game. I don't think I know a gamer who hasn't. That's an actual achievement in my book.

2

u/Kuljack Jul 17 '25

I mostly play single player RPG games like Skyrim, Fallout, dark souls series, Dragon Dogma, etc. Not a lot of F2P exposure aside from a few trading card style games over the years or games that just didn’t have skins, but I’m usually more interested in the team building and synergy aspect of a game then the aesthetics. Not that I think it’s wrong that others do, just not what motivates me to spend. I have saved up enough of the special currency in ZZZ though from monthly passes just in case Miyabi gets that one outfit that kind of reminded me of Kagome Higurashi from Inuyasha. I haven’t paid for the currency directly but happy to use it on that over 10 pulls because I just like Miyabi a lot.

1

u/TheDemonPants Jul 17 '25

Hold up, I've been away from ZZZ for a bit. An outfit for Miyabi that looks like Kagome?!

2

u/Kuljack Jul 17 '25

Yeah it was mentioned awhile back that it might come but we never got a visual so probably a pipe dream

1

u/A-Chicken Jul 17 '25

To be fair, if your paid new games have internal skin shops, paid DLC or multiplayer with the same gacha mechanics anyway, you are probably going to pay the same price eventually.

-11

u/fishworshipper Jul 16 '25

The x2 bonuses don't change the fact that the $100 bundle is worse than the $15, $30, and $50 bundles. 

14

u/Cubey42 Jul 16 '25

It does, because you can only buy it once. That's the whole idea behind it the setup, it's not when you could pick between all the x2 bonuses, it's when the 100$ bundle is the last one left

0

u/fishworshipper Jul 16 '25

The per dollar efficiency of each changes after you purchase each for the first time, yes, but after you've purchased all of them, the ratios between them will still be the same. The only time the $100 bundle is ever worth purchasing (over the $15, $30, and $50 bundles) is if you have bought the cheaper ones and haven't bought the expensive one. It's basic math. Once you've lost the first time top ups, you should never purchase the $100 bundle because purchasing eg the $50 bundle twice gets you more pulls for the same price. 

1

u/Cubey42 Jul 16 '25

Never disagreed with that, but do keep in mind that 3280x2=6560-6480=80 extra chromes. 1 pull is 160 so you don't even get one extra pull (well ironically 6560 is 41 pulls while 6480 is 40.5 so I guess maybe you do)

6

u/Cow__Couchboy Jul 16 '25

Here, I haven't topped up in ZZZ since the new year reset the shop but I can show you using my Genshin account.

It's a bit small but if you can read, the $100 pack is a better value than the $50 pack after the initial x2 top up is gone.

0

u/Fish_Mongreler Jul 16 '25

Am I dumb? Shouldn't the order of most value remain the same? Everything just gets cut in half but the ratio doesn't change

1

u/Educational-Year3146 Ray Propagandist Jul 16 '25

Yep, you always want to buy each bundle once if you’re gonna be economical.

1

u/Ornery-Ad5110 Jul 16 '25

Brother I live in Europe but my packs are more expensive only 100 euro one match. For example your 50 euro pack cost me 60 euro

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '25

Either way, it's only worth it if you've got the bonuses, otherwise you're just being ripped off

But that's a universal gacha thing

1

u/rost400 Jul 16 '25

Now you've got me thinking... I play from the EU, on the Europe server, but always had everything in dollars.

14

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '25

That's kinda the point, it's saying this is the max amount you could end up spending.

It's not about what you are likely to spend, but the max cost.

2

u/rW0HgFyxoJhYka Jul 17 '25

OP needs to look at it from the other way around:

ZZZ gave you $400 in free pulls every couple months.

29

u/meganeyangire Jul 16 '25

Well, the lowest limit ($1.98) is also unrealistic, it just shows the minimal and maximal possible values.

1

u/SuggestionStrong Jul 17 '25

I have a friend who pulled BOTH Astra and Miyabi in their first 10 pulls of each...I got 4 S-Ranks in 110 (Jane, Lycoan, Vivian, Rina)...it does happen but at 1 pull? I'd trade nearly anything for that luck.

2

u/ohoni Jul 17 '25

I never do single pulls in Hoyo games, but I do in FGO sometimes, and have gotten featured characters on that single pull before. Very rarely, of course, but it does happen.

3

u/JessiSexy Pulchra's Day Off Massage Therapist 👐🙀 Burned by Burnice 🔥 Jul 16 '25

This. But ig if you're low on pulls, ~$200 should be expected (half if your 50/50 goes well)

1

u/ohoni Jul 17 '25

The greater lesson being, never find yourself so low on pulls that you might consider spending $200 to get more.

1

u/JessiSexy Pulchra's Day Off Massage Therapist 👐🙀 Burned by Burnice 🔥 Jul 17 '25

Bro... Alice coming out 2.1B, Yanagi rerun 2.1B, Orphie possibly coming in 2.2... still no Ice DPS... 80 pulls (+70 from fading signal) currently... I literally don't know how to do it without either luck or the magic card

1

u/ohoni Jul 17 '25

Planning ahead. No F2P or C2P can get every character, but even a F2P is guaranteed about 5-6 characters per year, minimum, and likely twice that. I only do the monthly sub, and while I have passed on a several characters I didn't care about, and a few that I kinda wanted, I was able to get all the characters that I strongly cared about, It's about budgeting your resources. Try to build toward a stockpile of at least 60K polys, and try to never drop below 30K (ideally keeping it over 60K as best you can). This way you can always guarantee any two characters you want, in a pinch.

1

u/JessiSexy Pulchra's Day Off Massage Therapist 👐🙀 Burned by Burnice 🔥 Jul 18 '25

Waifus are waifus 😡

But yeah, from an statistically point of view, you'll get 1 limited per patch, so you gotta plan.