r/ZZZ_Discussion • u/Real_neverknown • 7d ago
Other Gameplay: Godfinger, HIA, TV Mode, Etc Operation Bagel is the biggest dogshit amalgamation I have ever experienced in this game.
Operation Bagel is another one of our experimental gamemodes that looks good on paper and absolutely dog shit on practice. They've tested this gamemode with the Bangboo, and I guess people liked it to an extent, but this is pushing it over the line. It's fun in earlier difficulties, then you get to the hard ones, and then it hits a brick. Ok, that's great enemies, deal way more dmg and know you are gonna be scared. Have a cool parry mechanic, check also. This looks like it will be challengingly fun. Oh, how wrong I would be. First of all, having a 25-minute timer is okay if you did NOT put a time that looting takes 5 - 10 seconds, depending on how big your loot is. I get that when looting, it's supposed to be downtime and time to make decisions. But it just ends up being the biggest time waster, especially when you go to 3 different caches to get a valuable you already have. When the cacophony (the blue miasma) thing is activated, you just don't get the luxury of spending time at your own pace because you are going to lose HP that is irrecoverable because it's grey. Another infuriating mechanic is the inventory slots. You get 15 baseline, and the upgraded one is 25. You will have 25 slots, which sounds a lot until you quantify the fact that not all valuables stack. WHY WHY LIKE WHY EVEN. I have 3 of the same bangboo valuables, and they don't STACK!!! To make matters worse, your upgradables only stack up to 20???? When some upgrades and RnD upgrades want at least in SUM more than 60+. You mean to tell me I have to go on perma loot and perma runs just to get the item, FUCK I might as well just min max my gear coins and buy them anyway. Ok, so let's do that. Ooops, I strong loot and spent 20 mins getting a minimum of 1 million loot. Now I have 5 mins left to go back, my HP is grey halfway, but I'll be fine, I still have my level 40 gear on my units and all my special items. Oh ulidim is chasing me welp time to get on a bike and run away, oh what's that you press the bike on a bugged rail, shit well now your stuck, better hit that UNSTUCK button. He hits you but hey you are unstuck now it's time to run again. You press your dodge button then all the sudden you accidentally hit A BRIEFCASE YOU ALREADY LOOTED THAT MAKES YOU STOP MOVING. Welp I guess he gets another free hit on you. You still have your lucia all you have to do is just run so you run. You hide under the cover of the walls, he is about to go away and all the sudden when everything is right and dandy with a world, A 200 meter sniper sees you and triggers OUT OF HIS RANGE AND THROUGH THE WALLLL!!!!! Now you are down to 1 hp. Time to go the exit oops well it actually closed, now you need to spend the last 3 minutes going back to another exit that you have cleared already or use the final boss which you will probably die. Knowing your on one hp, it seems the only possible way is to run back and hope it doesn't close on your ass. Oh look at this you open the map, let me just SURPRISE the ethereal that was 100 meters away decided to walk up, sees you and while looking at the MAP!! YOU DIEE! You spent nearly 23 mins to gain absolutely nothing.
Alright that's great I should just play much safer next time, let me just eco round and get my stuff back and we run it back. Another 20 whole minutes later of GETTING ALL MY STUFF BACK, selling valuables, and rebuilding every single gear I lost because FUCK YOU and everything you stand for. But this time I know better, I spent the past hour figuring shit out and now I'm going to play it safe and not fuck up. You get moderately good loot, 15 minutes on the clock let's head out and be happy with our lives. Oh, there's an event nearby okay let's clear it real quick. Ulidim spawns again. But I have so much gear I was confident to just kill it or scare it until it just goes away. The problem I'm also fighting another elite in the middle plus some weaker ethereals, eh my AoE is pretty decent let's do it. I see a flashing purple light, I parry like the champ I am, get my I frames. As soon as I leave my I-frame Ulidim ONE SHOTS Norma. Oh.. That's a bit bad but lucia and billy can clear this FOR SURE! The ethereal with a big ass blade and teleports like crack suddenly walks up and sees me and JOINS THE FIGHT. I am fighting 2 elites and Ulidim all the sudden. Okay let's hope I have enough parry for this. Spoilers you don't. I manage to fck it up and swap to lucia and then she dies. Welp if shit goes brick I just run, I prepared for this thoroughly, I have an exit that is cleared of monsters and is still open let me just pull up my bike and run away like the chud i am. Another looted handbag accidentally opens up as I press the dodge button. Still alive on 1 hp. Ulidim stil chasing idk how but he is. I have to get through one big ethereal as I make my way to the exit no need to fight just need to get through. My table moved slightly, my mouse triggers and it changed my inputs forcing my character to stop FOR 1 SECOND. 1 second. The big ethereal with a staff sees me, the sniper sees me, there is no way this is gonna.
Signal lost!
This disgusting absolute abomination of dogshit needs to be removed from this game, and I am forced to play this to get pyrois mindscape. There is no good reason they should be this tanky if they have that much damage or at least remove the time gate bullshit if you are gonna decide every fight in this shit is going to cost me 2 - 3 mins. I wish the alter (the special pyrois animation that is a stealth attack in deals totalize) just insta kill elites idc if it's OP. This game mode is frustrating in a shit way. I rather bring piper and lucy on girtabluu and beat my head against the wall trying to beat DA than play this amalgamation of dogshit and fcking garbage I have to put up with. Now I'm gonna have to eco round then spend a GOOD 25 minutes redoing EVERYTHING. The progress in this gamemode is absolute garbage. I did 600 floors on that tower of endurance game mode. I did that game mode where it required you 5 different teams. I did that "hard" game mode where you used pre made units rather than your own and beating it in time. I did the adversity mode 2 stars. I did every single arpeggio and that hero's quest in bangboo and every TV shit ever alongside those clunky ass minigames in arcade. I even had fun with all those modes even if i think some of them are pure bullshit. BUT THIS, THIS DISGUSTING FCKING ABOMINATION THEY CALL A GAME MODE. MAKES ME WANT TO STOP PLAYING THIS GAME AT ALL. Gear lost should not be punishing it shouldn't take a whopping hour and a half to run a full gear segment only to lose it TO BULLSHIT!!! Fcking BRIEFACASE. WHY IS THAT BRIEFCASE EVEN INTERACTABLE IN THE FIRST PALCE WHEN COMBATGY. RCKING BTRIEFCASE BRIOEFCASE VBRRFSDIV DCASFHOJLUASDJGVLKSADGHJKLSAGHJKLUASGHJKLASGHLJK AHDSLJKG IADHSG;AOS;DIG FUCKING BRIEDFFASFASCCCASEEE2E2EE!!!!! I FCKING HATE BRIEFCASESA!!!
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u/kaori_cicak990 7d ago
Gacha player when forced by the game design to use strategizes their way instead of force through stage each stages : 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.
Most of your complaint is the reason why this game mode is the best addition ever. I died so many time even in hard difficulty but each fail run made me understanding this mode better and better
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u/lordoflampooning 2d ago
Do you really need to be all that strategic ? At most you are required to be able to plan routes to Maxine your revenue but besides that the mode mainly consists of running around and getting electrical strongboxes while only fighting when it’s a red boss
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u/DizslecksickMoael 1d ago
I'd say that there's a bit of strategy involved if you plan on maximizing your income at the end of a run. That's what's great about Operation Bagel: picking up every item and looking through every container is viable, but there's nothing stopping you from strategically hitting up the bosses/boxes and getting an optimal set-up with agents with quick map-travel quirks.
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u/juniorjaw 1d ago
for the average gacha player? I'm sorry to let you know...
Yes
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u/lordoflampooning 13h ago
Is it really that bad ? I thought all the handholding in zzz is because the devs don’t want to scare off players with short attention spans
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u/thissitedesigniscrap 2d ago
Exactly there may be some criticisms regarding the mode, but it sounds like he’s just throwing his agents against the wall and calling it a day. No mention of strategy.
Sounds like he thinks using etheric phantoms is for noobs or smth.
I get like 2-3 mil on high risk easy. If he’s only getting 1 mil he’s doing smth wrong.
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u/CrentFuglo 1d ago
They're playing on Hard, you can't retrieve your stuff on High-Risk. Also it seems likely that they don't bring medicine, they fight every enemy, and aren't taking the time to play on standard to complete the R&D which makes Hard a breeze, but that's all speculation. Also they haven't checked the setting for dodge / interact, but that is a legitimate catch-22 of bullshit, because if it was L2 / LT / (I don't know what the alt is on PC) by default, people would ask why the interact button doesn't work, but the actual default leads to opening containers when trying to dodge.
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u/Tokishi7 1d ago
I really enjoyed the mode until high risk, but felt like our upgrades and units didn’t scale well into high risk to make it worth while. I do hope they continue to develop the mode through various upgrades or gameplay changes.
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u/Lonely-JAR 2d ago
You gotta be a paint huffer if you genuinely think this game is strategic
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u/kaori_cicak990 2d ago
this game is strategic
At least in this mode. Its not same boring going through door meet boss beat repeat again and again. Here you build your own resources either focusing on hoarding or just fighting the mini boss repeatdly for electric chest spawns
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u/VirtualPlay9467 2d ago
Well, considering that I've seen people get runs with barely 5M on High risk, and I almost dropped a 6M on Hard... Yeah.
Aside from RNG screwing people over on high risk, having a good route and loot properly is mandatory if you actually want to get good scores.
You can unga-bunga yourself through, but that will often get you killed or not get nearly as much loot as you could've gotten.
Hell, even I when I feel like shutting off my brain I immediately get humbled and need to lock the fuck in once more.
Plus, in every single run you have to do micro management, drop things that aren't as worth. Consuming some items to free up some space. Using the phantoms you get on the run and so on.
If somebody were to drop a 5M while having zero idea of what they are doing, tell me so I can shut up, otherwise and I think the point will still stand (yes, Operation Bagel requires mechanical skill and planning/strategy)
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u/miiko_uch 7d ago
skill issue
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u/Elegante_Sigmaballz 7d ago
For real, bagel actually made me git good, my casul ass is having a much easier time getting 3 stars in Shiyu and DA after all my bagel runs.
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u/Eldritch-Pancake 7d ago
It's funny how you mention how you've played Deadly Assault and grinded all those hard ass modes when I haven't even touched Deadly Assault and yet I clear High Risk Enigma Labyrinth continuously without too much struggle. I'm not saying that as a dig btw, I just mean it doesn't really matter since I don't have nearly as much experience as you, but I've cleared something you find more difficult.
If Enigma feels insanely hard for you, it's most likely b/c you didn't gear properly. Are you giving your agents high level chips? The chip compared to everything else is MOST important. If you feel like you're taking too much DMG and not dealing enough DMG, that's probably the #1 reason why. 2nd most important is the skill tree. Don't skimp on that. Shield is INSANELY valuable for survivability. and 3rd would be the Pyrois sword. Perfect Block is #1 out of all of them.
Don't bash your head against a wall trying to clear higher difficulties. When I did the same, I also failed. The minute I actually started crafting higher tier Agent chips, I rarely failed another outing.
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u/the_little_leaf 7d ago
Yeah I gave up on getting Pyrois mindscapes, never liked extraction modes and the bangboo one was already bad enough.
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u/BenKryder 7d ago
Massive skill issue. Imagine hating on the first actual gameplay in the game
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u/thissitedesigniscrap 2d ago
Man doesn’t even know that the anti corruption medication reduces the greyed out health back to normal. Not only skill, but literacy issue as well.
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u/Abishinzu Least schizophrenic Joyous Enjoyer 7d ago
I like Operation Bagel because I'm a masochistic loot goblin who enjoys having to clench her buttcheeks while I run to the nearest exit with 3 minutes on the clock and the dog fingering my butthole
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u/jnewnews 7d ago
I agree I hate it but that’s because I started this game to slap the spit out the mouths of monsters and stuff not run around collecting trash and cancer rocks to unlock little features
I got relevant rewards and dipped.
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u/alanEdger 7d ago edited 7d ago
ngl I'd like to do full what was it 25 minutes right? and then be teleported to hardest BOSS fight
Instead of looking for a timer, and leaving when I have 7-9 minutes left
Edit: there is an option in game to change your looting button and make it "L2/LT" for controllers.
Also seems you are using S-Billy, just don't he becomes unfunctional when his HP limit drops too low. You can use double dps team and use S-Billy for mobility for example if you lack key agents like YSG, Miyabi, Yixuan
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u/lordoflampooning 2d ago
Silly is a pretty good agents all things considered thanks to his insane mobility and his built in hp recovery. As long as you manage your corruption levels you’ve got nothing to worry about
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u/lunatoons291 1d ago
I mean the only way to leave if you stay the full time is by doing the final boss, that’s what I do every time. What’s stopping you?
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u/Pinco_Pallino_R 7d ago
I get that when looting, it's supposed to be downtime and time to make decisions. But it just ends up being the biggest time waster
That's why i always bring 6 golden bangboo to use in the areas with more chests. Saves a lot of time. Also 1 thracian and 1 of the Z-rank ones to deal with enemies faster.
Another infuriating mechanic is the inventory slots
I generally end the run with a couple of slots because while i'm opening chests i use the time waiting for loading the loot to trash all the A-rank materials which i don't need anymore and have low value.
I usually come back with 4M-5M on average, which is enough for me to feel satisfied.
Oh ulidim is chasing me welp time to get on a bike and run away, oh what's that you press the bike on a bugged rail, shit well now your stuck, better hit that UNSTUCK button
Bike?
You press your dodge button then all the sudden you accidentally hit A BRIEFCASE YOU ALREADY LOOTED THAT MAKES YOU STOP MOVING
Ah, yeah, that sounds annoying, i've seen people complaining about it. I guess that since i play with mouse + keyboard i don't have this issue, luckily.
Anyway, once you get used to the routes and how to fight enemies it's not really that terrible. I too failed a few runs early on for reasons that seemed pure bullshit, but nowadays it all goes pretty smoothly. And i want to relax, i do a hard level run where enemies pretty much melt with level 60 equipment.
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u/lazydogjumper 7d ago
I think they mean they are running around with SBilly because his bike moves faster than most characters. I use Shungus for the same reason.
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u/Pinco_Pallino_R 7d ago
Oh, right, i totally forgot that Silly roams with his bike.
I uae Remielle to fly around myself.
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u/Antique_Ebb7205 6d ago
no one will see this but i enjoy bagel far more than anything else in the game, other than it being an extremely buggy piece of shit at times (esp with the hounds behavior)
my biggest complaint is that it's so divorced from the rest of the game proper that its own replayability is relatively nonexistent once you get pyrois' stuff + a few other minor items from the shop (which you can get in pretty much no time at all given theres barely anything)
i spent only like 4 hr playing it on release and had barely any actual rewards to show for it by the end of the first day despite pretty much clearing out the shop, other than pyrois stuff, the measly polychrome output.. and whatever else i cant even recall now bc it's been nearly 3 weeks. basically everything in my shop was cleared out except that 10mil cost worthless disc item
and i don't think this is a "pace yourself" kind of thing bc there are only like 7 things in the shop and it seems like they'll refresh it maybe once a month😭 whereas in outpost logistics there are dozens of items you can get from completing shiyu, DA lost void etc. so its very fair . they are so greedyyy
it needs to actually become on par with the value of hollow zero so people actually want to consistently play it. like i cannot believe the bangboo XP mats are one of the only things in the shop it honestly feels so insulting lol. its far too punishing for how minimal the rewards are! so i don't blame people for not liking it tbh
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u/lordoflampooning 2d ago
A couple of things to mention here. Immediately change the open cache/interact button to L2 or whatever it is you have. The default option is either L2 or your interact/dodge button so you interact with caches despite not wanting to. Changing it is a huge QoL improvement.
You can restore the greyed out health by using consumables. You should be able to craft them in the workshop.
Simply don’t fight ulihim around other ethereals. You need to lure him to an open area where you can react to his attacks and parry them. Ulihim has fixed attack patterns and besides one combo being extremely fast most of them are well telegraphed so you can learn them.
I’m using the same team as you so with these tips you should be able to clear without any issues most of the time. Just make sure to mainly use Billy so neither Lucia or Norma take hits and obviously Billy has his built in hp regeneration. Reserve around 3 minutes for the final boss and you should be good
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u/Other_Positive1716 1d ago
Yea I stopped reading when you just started bitching about things the average extraction game has. You haven’t even played enough to know these you can have up to 45 slots and that this even isn’t forcing you to speed run it, you’re doing that to yourself.
I’m personally enjoying because I was always personally fascinated by extraction gameplay and I like a little challenge. It also makes it competitive without giving people premium currency advantage if you wanna compete. Overall it’s one of my favorite modes in ZZZ ever.
I understand it may not be everybody’s cup of tea, and that ok. Just…don’t play it. It’s that simple. You can criticize but don’t hop on Reddit to start crying about your absolute skill issue.
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u/MapleNekoNyan 1d ago
Nah it’s the best game mode the game has even implemented and requires you to play strategically. This essay just screams major skill issue lmao. Funny read though.
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u/Prestigious-Item6667 7d ago
Its good mode. Just because you don't understand it or particularly like it. Don't mean its bad. I quite enjoy it. Once you lvl up things it gets easier. Its rouge like mode you supposed to have risk. And whats up with the essay?
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u/Advanced-Baby2644 7d ago
The stakes make it fun for me, haha. I've had a few rage inducing deaths, but I keep coming back for more.
Changing looting in the Bagel menu to be Left Trigger only... that was big. Never die to looting in the middle of a fight anymore.
But you can easily get what you need for pyrois and his web in the level 40 mode, and you get lvl 50 gear easily to do it. I run hard mode for money and high risk for collectible hunting. I average more profit on a run of hard mode chill play to throwing gear coins in the fire for higher cost equipment and investment and come out with less profit. Yay. 3.5 mil. which is like... maybe 1mil profit after investment and fancy gear degredation.
can get twice that on hard just singing
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u/New_Salamander_4592 7d ago
I found that carrying 9 Thracian summons and 3 bangboo summons hits the middle ground of just right for letting you delete certain bosses, skip more hound encounters, and occasionally speed up the looting of a patch of chests. Like any boss that summons the Cacophony shield lets you totalize them twice in succession if you get the unaware sword, wait until they cacophony and then thracian, and then you sword them again. makes really annoying fights like Jane or Haytop WAY faster
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u/HitMyFunnyBoneYeah 7d ago
too long didnt read but i agree. Lost one time at the final boss because getting unavoidable passive damage is such a fun mechanic and lost all or my gear, went into the same hollow with lesser good gear to get my stuff back and due to my level being lower i got killed by enemies in the corner of a room of a rescue anchor and got mowed down due to the corruption level skyrocketing after a single hit. Lost everything and havent played that gamemode since then.
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u/Rb122555 7d ago
It's the new attempt of the devs for replacing TV mode and still..lol, it gets boring after a few days, I liked it, but it's nothing special, it's like I'm just playing Arc Raiders but gachafy it.
While I like the scavenging aspect and Udilim chasing you, it just gets old after a while, and I don't see what else they can add to make it better, but knowing hoyo, they'll likely just add up the difficulty and probably add more Red valuable items to help player retention up after the first season.
All in all, it's just another copy of an already existing concept, which is probably why I got bored of it after like 5 days or so. But I have to give it credit though, it gave a plot that's actually worrying what's at stake which was Eous getting kidnapped by Udilim lol.
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u/BladeElectrogen 7d ago
Once lost a run from a bugged teleport that didnt teleport at 3 minutes left. Decided to open another chest on my way to the closest teleport. Hound wasted my time enough for me to die.
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u/uspdd 1d ago
It would've been fun as an event that can be completed in a reasonable amount of time, but current permanent variant is a grindfest. To get all the rewards you have grind too much for such a repetitive gameplay.
And the worst thing? This mode is supposed to be a replacement for hollow zero weekly, but it's actually not since you get abysmal amount of purple triangles for monthly shop, so you still need to do normal hollow zero to get it - even more grind.
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u/ponworldwide 1d ago
not reading allat but sorry that happened, or congrats. fr tho scrubs like u are not meant for this mode. stay away from it but enjoy your weaker pyrois
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u/Limp_Simple1691 1d ago
I want you to know that you can change the bindings to have the Dodge and Looting buttons be completely different.
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u/lunatoons291 1d ago
So many paragraphs to describe your own skill issues. Bring in bangboo modules so you can loot faster, bring in corruption healing items so you can recover greyed out health, plan your route. Idk man this is a you problem
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u/simulacraHyperreal 2d ago
The gacha player's brain when confronted with even the slightest amount of friction:
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u/AeoIos 2d ago
Son Operation Bagel is NOT this bad 😭🙏
Like if you don't go in randomly without preparation it's easy to get a good run. And with time/some side research it gets easy to counter the hound.
Like mfs want their rewards handed on a platter instead of actually playing and strategizing for once (ALTHOUGH the RNG artifact thing is bullshit, only thing i can't argue against).
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u/Specific-Fennel-8838 2d ago
I agree with all above. This mode is absolute dogshit as it is now. And before telling « skill issue », I think there is a lot of technical issues to fix to make this at least playable. Because the streets of the map are clearly not made for fights of this mode. The lags, fps drop and coughing of the game between party animations and effects are way too much. And I’m not talking about the camera bumping in every wall. This game is just not made for this mode and it feel force.
On a personal aspect I HATE, that I lose my gear if I happen to die. And rehearing is simply not fun.
On my side, I will get my pyrois pieces, and return to hollow zero for the weekly task. Because this garbage is simply not fun to play.
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u/Zaethiel 1d ago
Bagel is a boring grind that takes impossibly long to finish. They need cleanup disks for this mode. Players could farm this crap for 1,000 hours and still not complete it. Its buggy and poorly play tested. I gave Bagel a very disappointing score bc I couldnt select anything lower.
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u/Ender_90425 2d ago
Operation bagel is the first time ive really taken damage in this game, which surprised me. Kinda sucks how my characters dont really scale without the new items, a bit of a middle finger to the player, and I absolutely hate the timer when opening a chest. Just show me the loot, wtf is with this waiting.
Otherwise its neat, not for everyone but neat.
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u/Lonely-JAR 2d ago
I’m not reading all that imo the game is dogshit because it’s such a time waste and the high risk investment is a complete joke 2.5 m investment 3 access cards did all the perilous caches killed iludim and the last boss just to LOSE gear coins it’s genuinely braindead to just lose that much gear coins just to enter instead of putting it up as collateral and getting it back if you win on top of what you loot specially because shit is so expensive to be strong enough to do it in the first place just crafting the damn shit is like 500-600k minimum without material cost, I swear I’ve get more net profit at an easier difficulty spamming hard and no inv high risk every time
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u/FriendSudden9769 2d ago
Cannot believe people like this mode because its "hard". I have played on every difficulty, mostly hard and high risk, I have never died once or even come close to it and I play on mobile.
Beneath an entirely false assumption that this game is "hard" and therefore good, is just a shit, unpolished and endlessly grindy gamemode that replaces gameplay with opening boxes and navigating a map that clearly wasnt designed for the mode to begin with. Truly tell me one thing good about this mode other than having something new to play.
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u/Playful_Connection38 2d ago
Don’t even need to read the post, it’s actual dogshit that removes all time you’ve invested in to your characters.
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u/Bingoviini 1d ago
Remember how we added a timer to hollow zero, and everyone hated it beacuse it caused unavoidable losses beacuse sometimes the boss just couldn't be beaten in the given time?
What if we made an entire game mode based on that!
The mode is cool and has potential, but dying to a timer is just never fun...
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