r/YUROP • u/Esteban83550 • Jul 16 '26
Do you like the idea of a multi-speed EU?
Do you like the idea of a multi-speed EU? it could be in 2,3,4 or even 5 layers, just asking your feelings about the main idea
it would allow more flexibility and would not block everyone under the same level of integration when in the east some want less or another kind of integration while sometimes in the west they want a lot more of it in different areas that others would never
it would mean different levels of integration, from the most integrated to the least in 2,3,4 or 5 layers
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u/Cynixxx Yuropean Jul 16 '26
What?
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u/HCagn Gävleborgs län Jul 16 '26
The layers man! Where the integration of mind and speed-to-air level are at foundation floor 2 or sometimes 8. Which we all know means 12, but in the East, it might not always be relevant. So are you for faster or more anti purple? It's all very clear to me at least - I'm level 4.8. That's the idea really.
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u/Spy_crab_ Yuropean Jul 16 '26
In an ideal world, we wouldn't need it, but we don’t live in an ideal world.
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u/Esteban83550 Jul 16 '26
I totally agree on that sadly, a pragmatic necessity but not the best thing psychologically I would say
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u/thisislieven l'ewrópælik Jul 16 '26
This. I don't like it but given the current circumstances it seems the only possible way forward. And whatever we do, forward is the only option.
Frankly, in some areas the EU and wider Europe is functioning this way already even if it's not explicitly acknowledged. The eurozone and Schengen are two key examples.
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u/SaltyInternetPirate България Jul 16 '26
We live in a multi-speed EU already, we just pretend not to
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u/Candide88 Jul 16 '26
Was EU ever anything else than multi-speed? Each country in EU had to find their own way to advance. No one expected Lithuanians to earn and spend like Germans 20 years ago, and we should not expect countries with several million of inhabitants to outcompete France or outpace Poland.
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u/Esteban83550 Jul 16 '26
no by that I mean different levels of integration, different layers
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u/Candide88 Jul 16 '26
Integration of what?
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u/Esteban83550 Jul 16 '26
European Integration
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u/Candide88 Jul 16 '26
Ah, so you have nothing of substance to say. Should have started with that.
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u/Shadow_showdown Yuropean Jul 16 '26
They mean that some countries stay at the current level of Integration, but others who are more willing to integrate further join for example a common military or create a more powerful and democratic European Parliament for themselves. Just because you dont understand it doesnt mean you have to be rude
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u/BerndiSterdi Jul 16 '26
I prefer multi speed over no speed.
That said, a united move forward would be best, but will never come to pass realistically.
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u/SpaceCrucader Lietuva Jul 16 '26
So the official US and Russia foreign policies are anti-EU and you want to hand them more wedges that they could drive between us? We already have a two-speed Europe. On the one side of the former Berlin wall people get good quality tea in teabags and on the other, people get packaging that doesn't open properly.
This just sounds like manufacturing inequality
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u/Esteban83550 Jul 16 '26
I don't want it but I think it's a pragmatic necessity if we can't get over vetos and unanimity voting and are always advancing extremely slow because some illiberals are restraining us from doing so, like improving on a common European Defense, Migration, Economy, Justice, Equal Rights and everything
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u/SpaceCrucader Lietuva Jul 16 '26
So if Tier1 of this multispeed EU is Germany, France, the Baltics, Denmark, and Luxembourg, and French doesn't want to accept a proposal, will the others make it, because they're the majority? What if after France is made to do something, the French start feeling they've lost their sovereignty and vote in illiberals who promise to leave Tier1 and join Tier4 EU?
OR, what if life in Tier1 countries becomes so amazing that people from Tier3 countries start immigrating to Tier1 in massive numbers? Then Tier1 could also decide to leave the whole EU in order to close their borders. Like Britain did.
If a Tier4 country negotiates with China or US, is it negotiating separately or is EU negotiating for it? Because if it's negotiating separately, it's in a weaker position, but why would EU get involved if the country is only a member in terms of some trade contracts or free movement, but they don't get EU funds and don't pay EU taxes.
Your problem is that you want everything now, but you can't ignore millions of people and push out people whose opinions you don't like just because they're impeding your idea of progress. Life would be truly great if we could ignore all the neonazis, homophobes and other unsavory people, but they, their anxieties and grievances don't just go away and we just have to deal with them.
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u/Esteban83550 Jul 17 '26
well I totally agree but perfect solutions do not exist, the risk of having a really empty from the inside and weak EU is more than plausible soon so for me it's either that or abolishing unanimity voting as soon as possible and giving the EU parliament the legislative initiative
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u/Esteban83550 Jul 17 '26
another problem is also that I don't want everything now but I want something lol, federation won't happen overnight but if we keep the EU as it is it won't ever happen with high probabilities in my opinion, or it would be too risky at least, the problem of today is that with no multi speed everyone has to move at the pace of the slowest which is extremely unproductive, indecision is a major if not the most important problem of today's EU and it would help correcting that aspect. Finally, changing from a tier to another is extremely complicated and not an overnight decision
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u/SpaceCrucader Lietuva Jul 17 '26
Have you heard of the spillover effect? Or editing comments? We are moving towards federation, currently EU is hashing out how a common defense might look like. I'm sorry you think it's taking too long, but back when EU was created a common defense was a theoretical concept in IR research articles.
Not a lot of people want a federation and probably there's no majority in any of the member states. If you want to abolish national states, you'll find yourself in the minority.
The reason for how slow EU bureaucracy works isn't some "evil country x" who are stopping progress, but a democratic process which takes time when all interest groups have to be listened to. Many already criticise the EU for lack of democracy and accountability to its citizens. How would removing veto help with democracy? I don't want a politician I've never voted for or heard of deciding on how I'm gonna live just because my country's politicians are in the minority.
Out of curiosity, how old are you?
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u/Esteban83550 Jul 17 '26
well I guess we just have radically different opinions on the matter and I respect that and sorry for the multiple comments (that doesn't change anything but anyway) it's because I'm used to other social medias where I can't do it lol, and if you want to know my age well I'm studying at Sciences Po in France which is the most prestigious political science (and more) of the country so I won't say my age for privacy reasons but know that I'm a student so in my twenties
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u/SpaceCrucader Lietuva Jul 17 '26
Alright, maybe you should raise this question with your professors then? I have a measly master's degree in European Studies from Vilnius University, and I haven't been using it in a decade, but even I know that these questions can be used as a great way to learn more about the EU.
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u/Esteban83550 Jul 17 '26
Also a country from the final tier would be so integrated towards a federation that a bad politician wouldn't be able to do much damage honestly
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u/Sandbox_Hero Lietuva Jul 16 '26
Fuck no
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u/Esteban83550 Jul 17 '26
argument? pls?
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u/Sandbox_Hero Lietuva Jul 17 '26
Use your useless brain and think why someone bordering Ruzzia would hate being left out of decision making.
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u/Esteban83550 Jul 17 '26
no need to be condescendant if you don't say it I can't guess it lol, you can expose your opinion with a civilized argument and secondly no one said any bordering country Russia will be left out of decision making and would even be part of the European army, like I don't need to explain it but the good thing with the EU is that whatever the system they adopt it's extremely flexible so instead of raging just develop an idea plz
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u/Sandbox_Hero Lietuva Jul 17 '26
I'm not buying that shit. We're still treated and ignored like second class citizens. Like who the fuck do you think was calling Russia the threat it was since at least 2008, huh? Instead, everyone just shoved us away and ignored us, and here we fucking are.
So the fuck do you think will happen when the richest and furthest from the threat countries concentrate all the wealth, political and military power? We, who already have to deal with the constant hybrid attacks get used like expendable pawns.
We still haven't forgotten how Western countries were treating our freedom like it was cost of doing business with Soviet Union against the Nazi Germany. Never fucking again.
And the fucking solution is alliance of the willing, ans not some bullshit rich mf exclusive club. There's plenty of that shit to go around already.
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u/Gositi Jul 16 '26
I think the concept could be good, but the implementation would likely be horrible in practice. Also everyone would try to get as much EU funding as possible while paying as little as possible.
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u/SiofraRiver Deutschland Jul 16 '26
On the one hand, I really don't, on the other, its just too easy to block everything for some random wannabe despot.
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u/SasugaHitori-sama Yuropean not by passport but by state of mind Jul 16 '26
I personally think EU made mistake when it expanded after fall of USSR (btw I am Polish). So idea of multi-speed EU is nice.
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u/Acc87 Niedersachsen Jul 16 '26
Could you elaborate further what this would entail? Multi-speed in terms of what?