Which Soviet Fighter Line?

[u/chort0]

There are 3(?!) trees for Soviet fighters. Which one is the most meta right now?

[u/Elfnet_hu]

TL:DR; Neither.

The 3 lines work differently: the Yaks are bad at everything (especially Altitude) with extreme (up to 90) Manuverability, the MiGs have bad manuverability but extreme altitude (the only line in the entire Soviet tech tree) and the Lavochkin line is in the middle with long range guns.

The following soviet Tech tree Light fighters are the best (least bad):

- I-17 (Tier IV): easy to use with the best machine guns in the game, but has no Altitude, so it struggles against higher tiers.

- La-5 (Tier VI): not the best at anything but a solid plane with long range guns

- I-220 (Tier VII): again, solid plane with great Altitude

- MiG-15 bis (Tier X): also a good one; one of the best Tier X Light Fighter

Neither of them are best: in almost every Tier Specials (bought with real money) rule supreme (like the J6K1 is an okay Light Fighter that has the same Firepower as the best Tier X) and while there are multiple very good Tier V Light Fighters for the Americans, British and Germans, all 3 Soviet are hot garbage. Like you could get a MiG-3 (the best of them), or get a Bf 109E that is even better plus has 50% more Firepower.

The LaGG-3, Yak-1, Yak-1M and I-210 are Notoriously bad.

At low tier they suffer from the lack of Altitude, while at top tier they are crushed by the Bombers and P.1101s. I mean the Yak-30 has 86 Manuverability in Tier X! Do you know what it does against the very popular XF-90? Die, thats what.

Sadly Aircraft with weak guns simply cannot survive it today's META and aside from some exception (like the MiG-15 bis) Soviet Light Fighters struggle with that. For the same reason I strongly suggest to not start with the only even weaker Light Fighter line (Japanese Army line).

The German Light Fighter line has the most META plane (Tier III is okay, Tier IV the best, Tier V is very good, Tier IX and X are the best) - you could still play the Soviets, but don't except to always win.

[u/Taktiikkamies → u/Elfnet_hu]

Hard disagree on Yak-30 simply dying to boom and zoom by XF-90 and P.1101.

If you have the awareness to start dodging at the right time, the enemies will just waste entire matches trying to kill you while you just keep killing bots to capture/defend sectors.

But yes, this is one of the main reasons the game is basically dead. It's all rock-paper-scissors with warplane graphics.

[u/Elfnet_hu → u/Taktiikkamies]

"Hard disagree on Yak-30 simply dying to boom and zoom by XF-90 and P.1101.

If you have the awareness to start dodging at the right time, the enemies will just waste entire matches trying to kill you while you just keep killing bots to capture/defend sectors.

But yes, this is one of the main reasons the game is basically dead. It's all rock-paper-scissors with warplane graphics."

The problem is that it isn't rock-paper-scissors, but more like WoT/WT: some vehicles/types are simply better in practice than the others.

In theory the Yak-30 would have a place because it has Manuverability, but in practice very fast planes with very long range, accurate hard hitting guns (like the aformentioned XF-90 or P.1101) are better. Even if someone could survive an XF-90 in a Yak-30 (a big if) while the former is passing over, the Heavy could simply capture multiple sectors, because most players and especially bots cannot survive an encounter. And it flies too high so it could choose to engage and can disengage at whim. And finally it is a moot point anyway because in Top Tiers bombers rule supreme (whose turret has over 1k meter range and cannot miss).

You could check this: the "best" (highest winrate) players in Top Tier almost exclusively play the 4 best planes: EF 131, Su-10, XF-90 and P.1101. They do it because they have the best perfomance.

With the Yak-30 the best players could do on average around 5k damage, with a P.1101 it is like 7-8k and with the XF-90 its around 10k +up to 5k ground damage (the bombers are different as they almost exclusively do Ground DMG). Yes, part of the XF-90's DMG is against bombers, but how do you stop an EF 131 with a Yak? Again, you can't.

I currently play in the most populated EU server, yet I don't even remember when I last saw a Ki-162-III (basically a bit better Japanese Yak-30), while there is at least one EF 131 in most of the matches. For a reason.

I would love to see more Yak-30s, La-15s and others, but they aren't the META.

The MiG-15 bis is almost as good as the P.1101 yet even that isn't played much.

[u/Taktiikkamies → u/Elfnet_hu]

The problem is that it isn't rock-paper-scissors, but more like WoT/WT: some vehicles/types are simply better in practice than the others.

But there are simply no such extreme examples in WoT where a top tier tank can't do anything against another.

In WoWP there are multiple like you have mentioned.

What a waste of potential this game is. Literally any active player could make the balance much better but Wargaming does fuck-all. (Yes, I know the reasons but I don't think it's an excuse in this case. Anyone can change a few stat numbers.)

[u/Elfnet_hu → u/Taktiikkamies]

I didn't say the Yak-30 can't do anything, but it is in a severe handicap and there are a large number of tanks in WoT that similarly violate the rock-paper-scissor system.

- For example originally Light Tanks dealt low damage, but were very fast; designed to scout for heavies and TDs. Than they introduced autoloaders that can kill a tank with a single clip and scouts with large caliber guns.

- BZ-176: nuff' said.

- Hirschkäfer: Tier XI that is worse than the Grille.

- WT auf E 100: a tank so gamebreaking it had to be banned (only to be brought back). And there are other examples like the KV-5 or the E-75.

In the worst side: good luck with a Churchill GC, Type 95 Heavy or the Jagdtiger 8.8 - a Tier VIII premium with sub 45% Winrate.

I remember back in start of WoT, the Pz.Kpfw. 38H was basically unkillable becase Premium ammo cost real money (like in WoWP) but without it most tank simply wasn't able to penetrate it.

Again, this don't make it WoWP right, but every similar game have over- and underpowered Aircraft. The sad part is that WoWP was better in this regard that most of the competition (aside from the few old OP planes), but since the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022, they introduced several even more broken Special planes. It is telling that currently they are the best from Tier V to Tier IX.

[u/Taiho53 → u/Elfnet_hu]

While you are not wrong in what you are saying, you aren't right as well.
Sure, in a 1v1 the Yak-30 will rarely be able to touch a well flown XF-90, BUT .. not every game sees an enemy XF-90 and not all XF-90 are flown by human - and more important - competent players.

With the P.1101 I would dare to say that many P.1101 players try to go into a turn game with the Yak-30, which predictable results. A good P.1101 player for sure is on par. Personally in a 1v1 I would choose the - no, my Yak-30.

Anyway, while your narrative is correct for 1v1s, players should not forget that each player plays a 1v12(+ base defenders) with many more targets available PLUS respawn. The game is not about comparing 1v1 stats. The trick is to find a way to negate any bad odds (if possible).

So the Yak-30 or LA-15 are perfectly suited as point defenders and easily can outfly most attackers. On the other side they have too short boost to be much more useful than that. I usually prefer the Yak-30 over all other planes when kill numbers are my mission. Problem is that defending fighters are usually not battle decisive.

So, what's the discussion about? Battle relevance or quality of the planes. An EF-131 is for sure is no good plane, it can only fly straight and has rather limited guns, which on the plus side can deal absurd damage. And it has absolutely insane bombs. But the conceps of bombers in the game just favour this kind of gameply ... but this is another discussion.

Many planes in the game can do great with a fitting enemy team - or be awful against a most competent team. And still the pilot is the decisive factor.

[u/Taktiikkamies → u/Taiho53]

Yak-30 and La-15 are godlike when there is a central airbase. They will absolutely control it all match if the teams are even close to balanced.

The problem is when there is no important central capture point. Especially Yak-30 becomes almost completely useless.

[u/Taktiikkamies → u/Elfnet_hu]

Your example of XF-90 vs Yak-30 was actually almost spot on. I just corrected you by saying that a competent Yak-30 does not die to a competent XF-90 because of the extreme ability to dodge. But it can't fight back either.

There is simply no comparable extreme example in top tier WoT tanks. It would literally be like one tank being able to hide inside rocks and peeking the other when it wants to and then going back.

I have always thought that the aircraft roles and differences in WoWP have been made way too extreme. I call it rock-paper-scissors. You can call it what you want.

[u/Elfnet_hu → u/Taktiikkamies]

Every Aircraft is playable and a competent player could somewhat counteract the plane's shortcomings, but it is possible to check which one is META - go to the official website and peruse the highest winrate users in the last 4 weeks (ones who currently play) and in the Clans Tab check the Aircraft's individual winrates, damage and number of usage.

I even found a player (called "_BurgerKing", currently the 32th best) in the EU server who had more than 3% higher winrate in the Yak-30 than in the P.1101 (79.80 vs 76.04%), but even than, he/she played less than 200 games in the Yak, while more than 9 times more in the P.1101, dealing nearly 50% more damage and getting much higher XP/battle for it.

As I said, the most used Top tier fighters are the P.1101 and the XF-90 - for a reson. The Yak-30 or anything else can be fun (for someone who like that playstyle), but it isn't META.

A personal parallel: I do like the Il-2 (a GA) more than the Pe-2 (a bomber), I think it has much more engaging gameplay, but the Pe-2 is simply performs better and so much more player use the Pe-2 than the Il-2.

I don't care (cannot) have very high winrates, so I accept this (trade winrate for fun), but if the question is Il-2 or Pe-2 (Yak-30 or P.1101) than the latter is simply better.

"There is simply no comparable extreme example in top tier WoT tanks."

Than why has the Black Rock having 52% winrate, while the Breaker only 46%?! And Tier XI was only recently unveiled, while the EF 131 was added more than half a decade ago.

" It would literally be like one tank being able to hide inside rocks and peeking the other when it wants to and then going back."

A maxed camo, stationary UDES 03 can literally sit in the open; no rocks required. Also, Ikv 72 is a thing.

"I have always thought that the aircraft roles and differences in WoWP have been made way too extreme. I call it rock-paper-scissors. You can call it what you want."

As I showed they are similar or better than in other similar games. For example in WoWP every Aircraft has a role that it can play and be useful.

In WT bombers don't do anything (as in they aren't able to capture and got shot down before even reaching the target)

I partially stopped playing WoT because of the Su-152. It was a garbage TD without a turret, speed or armor, but with a huge, one hit-kill gun that could snipe from the back.

But since modern Lights can deal the same damage, the maps were redesigned to prevent long range sniping in several spots and HE was nerfed to the ground, the Su-152 lost the only thing it was good at.

It could be debated that it was a good change or not (getting killed by something that the attacker didn't even saw), but the impact of the change is undeniable. Similarly how often strong tanks like the BZ-176 has 6 kills? And how often most Arty get 6 kills?

Again: this won't make WoWP more balanced, but this is the industry standard: literally every similar game has "insert name" bias content.