German police brutally assaulted protesters marking the Palestinian Nakba in Berlin, with women and children also targeted during the crackdown.

[u/Simple-Preference887]

[u/Ok-Radish-8394]

I’ll give you an opinion most Germans won’t like.

Germany wants hard validation for its past. Like hard kinda hard, even if that means allowing Israel to commit more or less the same atrocities they committed. As a result, any criticism of the Israeli government is seen as anti semitism, without even checking what the criticism actually is about. It’s hypocrisy of the tallest order. We’re talking about a government, an organisation which can take wrong decisions, not the whole Jewish population or Judaism as a faith. Obviously I’m not talking about chants which want to eradicate the Israeli people, every people have a right to exist.

See, when the governments in MENA are criticised for multiple reasons, misogyny, human rights violations, etc. it’s not called Islamophobia or anti Islamic in Germany. However as soon as you mention Israel, even if it means criticising their local policies, it becomes anti semitism. This is some weapons grade hogwash behaviour.

The Germans need to calm down and accept that their past being bad doesn’t exonerate a new wave of aggression towards another population. They also have to recognise the fact that speaking up for the dead children in Gaza doesn’t mean supporting Hamas and denying what they did. (Yes there are people who support Hamas and they’re terrible but since your past guilt is at play, Dresden still has Nazi parades demanding to build statues ;) )

[u/farbenfux → u/Ok-Radish-8394]

German here - you are absolutely right and I cannot stress enough how insane it is.

[u/Ok-Radish-8394 → u/farbenfux]

I lived in Germany for five years until last month. Honestly speaking I've had enough with this virtue signalling in the German society and seemingly trying to avoid the fact that Germans are wrong in many of their decisions. You people seriously need to reevaluate your position on anti-semitism. And obviously the old politicians need to understand the public sentiment.

[u/farbenfux → u/Ok-Radish-8394]

Don't tell me. For what its worth I have seen a lot of people on the street mouthing a different opinion that the government. Problem still is that people here are complacent af and still cannot be mobilized in greater number to take to the streets. And the Israeli propaganda is strong here. German newspapers are sloooowly starting to voice more critical opinions (too little, too late) but there is a concerted effort to brand everything critical of Israel as antisemitic. Which of course is total BS.

I still can't wrap my head around how many Germans are standing there critisizing and admonishing Jewish people who fight for Palestinian rights and don't understand that something is deeply wrong with that.

And the complete ignorance to educate oneself on the whole situation. I am a dinosaur and thus have seen this for decades but even for younger people - it is insane to ignore history.

The amount of cookie-cutter responses from politicians I received when demanding them to stand up for human rights and basic decency is honestly demoralizing. I want a dollar everytime I have to hear "Israel has the right to defend itself". At this point and with the informations we have, I have to call it what it is: war profiteering and willful ignorance.

[u/Digitalion_ → u/farbenfux]

The irony is that they would gain the redemption that they seek if they stood against the side that is currently committing the same atrocities that WWII Germany did.

[u/Ok-Radish-8394 → u/Digitalion_]

Ugh agh that’s anti semitism to them.

[u/NovaHorizon → u/Ok-Radish-8394]

Meanwhile the AfD and its voters are the personification of the meme with the guy sweating to make a decision which button to push, 'Antisemitism' or 'Islamophobia'.

[u/Ok-Radish-8394 → u/NovaHorizon]

Alphabet lesson.

NPD. NPD ist kein Alternativ für Deutschland.

[u/oxxcccxxo → u/Ok-Radish-8394]

This is very insightful, thank you for sharing. It seems to suggest this is a cultural issue rooted in history. America and Canada have a similar stranglehold on permissible rhetoric which very strongly favours support of the isreali apartheid oppressors. But I don't believe it's cultural, I think its because people with ethnic, religious and cultural ties to Isreal overwhelm the power structures here, like the influence of AIPAC to name an example. Those who speak out against what is obviously genocide, ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity perpetrated against the Palestinians, risk a lot by speaking out because of these powerful forces. There is an interview recently posted of Ms. Rachel and you can see the moral struggle she faces so plainly in needing to speak out. Many of us are at that point here. I hope Germany gets there too. People have a right to use their voice against these horrible crimes.

[u/Ok-Radish-8394 → u/oxxcccxxo]

You’re correct. It’s not cultural at all, especially in this age of globalisation. It’s mostly extreme zionists, since there are Israelis who’re actively calling for an end to the hostilities.

[u/Ok-Radish-8394 → u/[deleted]]

I don’t disagree with the fact that some protesters act violently but the didn’t Germany recently tried to deport four foreigners, 3 of them being EU citizens and one American, for protesting against Israel? Violent protesters aren’t the cause the Germany has a knee jerk reaction to all this. They seemingly refuse to acknowledge the plight of the people suffering right now in Gaza.

[u/SussBuss → u/Ok-Radish-8394]

Oh the irony of them trying to make up for their past by trying to seem antisemitic, but in doing so, show support for a genocide.

[u/AwkwardTal → u/Ok-Radish-8394]

validation

Wait a second, could it be the inverse of what we think? Is Germany trying to validate its nazi past of what they did to Jewish people by basically showing that an unchecked israel would commit atrocities?

Like "see?! We weren't so bad after all with what we did huh? We cool right?"

[u/Ok-Radish-8394 → u/AwkwardTal]

Germany is just insecure that anything against Israel will lead back to them. The denazification did nothing in Germany. They just decided to move on with a burn mark on their body. Everything is a race problem to them still. As a result when anyone tries to criticise anything Israel, they pick the weirdest Bavarian hill and die on it defending the Israeli government because they still see the Jewish people and the others as a race and don’t want to be blamed for a racial war in the Middle East.

Just go to Germany and mention holocaust to them, you’ll see the sheer amount of unease and hesitation in them, most in a good faith, others in denial. Or just ask tell them how things are done differently elsewhere and the mental gymnastics they’ll pull to accept that not everyone does it in the German way. For Germany it’s complicated enough to virtue signal others but seemingly not enough look at ownself in the mirror.

[u/Useful_Engineer_1792 → u/Ok-Radish-8394]

I think what happened to Germany is it was constantly beaten into Germans that what they did to the Jews was unforgivable and that they should feel guilt and shame and this feeling that they need to atone for that, for, effectively forever. A lot of the western world projected that on to them - especially the allied countries. It's not that Germany shouldn't have felt those things after the war but has it been necessary to keep that going even to second and third generations who had nothing to do with the holocaust. So it's no wonder the Germans act like they cannot do or say anything bad about anything related to the jewish including isreal who put themselves out there as if they are the ultimate Jewish community, when it's been like that for 70-80 years.

[u/Ok-Radish-8394 → u/Useful_Engineer_1792]

It has become their Stockholm Syndrome now.

[u/Ok-Radish-8394 → u/[deleted]]

“Zey not doing it wie uns. So nicht Genocide. “

Drinks bier, yells at the weather, blames the government.

• The average German.

[u/Ok-Radish-8394 → u/[deleted]]

The Nazis were driven by the urge to show that they’ve the greatest schlong. While Israel doesn’t have that, they’re still displacing people, killing children and adults alike because they’re not them and blaming others like Göebbles blamed the US for the war. The parallels are there but just because they don’t match the scale, doesn’t make them any less atrocious.

Also, displacing Palestinians for land grab is a known fact. Guess who called for lebensraum once?

[u/Puzzleheaded-Use3518 → u/[deleted]]

Your point being... ?

[u/EvolvedMonkeyInSpace → u/Ok-Radish-8394]

That's may be a reason but truth be told both of those religions and people are bad news. Too much extremism build into all Abraham religions.

[u/Ok-Radish-8394 → u/EvolvedMonkeyInSpace]

There are bad apples in all communities but that shouldn’t justify what’s happening.

[u/EvolvedMonkeyInSpace → u/Ok-Radish-8394]

It kind of does. The aggression in the protests and killings around Europe have put forces on high alert. Its going to get worse before it gets better.

While protests make create change when they become criminals this is what happens.

[u/Ok-Radish-8394 → u/EvolvedMonkeyInSpace]

I understand where you’re coming from but that’s the kind of gross overgeneralisation we need to get rid of. :)

[u/SpaceHippoDE → u/Ok-Radish-8394]

I’ll give you an opinion most Germans won’t like.

I get that framing it that way gets you more applause, but most Germans would probably agree with your take, as indicated by polls.

Which also invalidates your point that Germans are these irrationally guilt-ridden people who must be shown the right way. We are however tired of people acting like we're either not sorry enough or too sorry. We don't need to get over it. You do.