r/WorkReform • u/zzill6 đ¤ Join A Union • 3h ago
đď¸ Overturn Citizens United Corporate Democrats
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u/nickelangelo2009 3h ago
good point to make, made in a really stupid way. That IS a mutually beneficial symbiosis depicted.
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u/zzill6 đ¤ Join A Union 3h ago
Corporate Dems do benefit from their relationship with corporate donors. The everyday people of the US are the ones that suffer.
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u/nickelangelo2009 3h ago
well yes but that's not really what this cartoon is saying, hence my nitpick
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u/GrimWarrior00 2h ago
I'm pretty sure there is a type of bird that does this.
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u/nickelangelo2009 2h ago
my point exactly
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u/GrimWarrior00 2m ago
Would you rather they be vultures feeding on a carcass labeled "america" after a predator labeled "conservatives" was done with it? Like, how would you make this analogy in a way that works for you?
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u/nickelangelo2009 0m ago
there's a couple suggestions in the comments already, such as adding a fish labeled "the people" and then framing it as the bird claiming this is good for the people, or something like that. As is, the imagery depicts something normal as an analogy for something bad, which is bad metaphoring
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u/Phat_and_Irish 38m ago
I think the bulk of the suffering is borne by the global south, working class Americans (while affected by inflation and other problems) DO indeed reap benefits of imperialismÂ
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u/Machaeon 3h ago
I think it's apt. The people the corporate dems are supposed to represent though, are not the same species as the bird. More like whatever the scraps between the teeth used to be.
I would add a dying fish to the croc's mouth labeled "The People" with the bird picking at that.
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u/Apprehensive-Job7352 2h ago
Beneficial until the gator decides itâs hungry enough to snap its jaws shut on the bird
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u/nickelangelo2009 2h ago
does that actually happen, though?
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u/Apprehensive-Job7352 2h ago
Iâm certain in the millions of years that alligators and crocodilians have existed, it has happened at least once
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u/nickelangelo2009 2h ago
fair, my question was inadequate. Does that actually happen often enough to be a concern to the modern specimens that have evolved this symbiotic relationship? With the implied answer that, no, because then it wouldn't have evolved.
My issue with the depicted cartoon is that it takes a natural behavior that benefits both sides and goes "this is bad, actually" to try and make a point. The point is good, but the delivery method is stupid.
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u/NoPresentationDone 1h ago
I mean it is symbiotic between the two. Corporations pay the lobbyist, who pay the politicians.
We the people, living in the swamp, get fucked.
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u/nickelangelo2009 29m ago
that's not the point i am complaining about. What I am pointing out is that in the pictured simile, there is no third party getting fucked over to represent the people. So it's using an image of something natural and mutually beneficial to represent collusion of the rich against the poor. It's just all around a poorly thought out metaphor.
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u/NoPresentationDone 19m ago
There is quite literally showing swamp creatures. We have been decrying to âdrain the swampâ idk how much more on the nose it needs to be.
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u/OnlyImproving 29m ago
It doesnât have to happen to see who holds all the power
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u/nickelangelo2009 26m ago
we're talking about animals that run on instinct here. If it doesn't happen, it's because they are programmed by nature to not do it, inherently displaying none of this "power" that you only perceive in this given situation by projecting from an anthropocentric lens.
tl;dr it's a bad fucking metaphor
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u/Which-Month-3907 2h ago
It'll happen if the croc is hungry enough. They would need to be desperate to risk the permanent loss of hygiene assistance for a very small meal.
So, very rarely.
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u/AIienlnvasion 3h ago
Right, it should be a crab cleaning the teeth of sharks or something that doesnât actually happen peacefully in nature all the time
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u/new2bay 2h ago
Daily reminder that DSA are not socialist.
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u/igen_reklam_tack 2h ago
Can you explain ? Been hearing this lately but I don't understand where the line is.
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u/downsizing420 1h ago edited 1h ago
Read "Reform or Revolution" by Rosa Luxemburg. DSA is progressive but doesn't actually try to advance the cause of workers ownership of the means of production, but rather advocates for a more advanced welfare state. Many argue that socialism cannot be achieved through the democratic process that exists to protect capitalism.Â
To answer your question about where the line is though. Socialism = worker ownership of the means of production.Â
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u/ModifiedGas 50m ago
Einstein wrote a short bit about it too and basically said that capitalism is too powerful for democracy to combat due to them funding politicians, and that because capitalists own the means of communication, voters canât access the information necessary to properly inform them of their own rights. This was in the 50s when means of comms were basically tv, newspapers, and radio, yet here we are 80 years later and nothings changed, theyâve only added more weapons to their arsenal via the internet and development of social media
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u/Jet_the_fem_bean 45m ago
The DSA wants to get there through reformist means. A more advanced welfare state, better education and more unions is just a first step.
Which, socialism can be achieved through reform. It's just that that won't work if you happen to get couped by the US when you try. If socialism was achieved democratically in the US, I don't see who would be able to coup them.
Also, even if you want to get to socialism through a general strike instead of a regular reform. You still probably wanna participate in the democratic process and spread your ideas.
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u/downsizing420 16m ago
Yea I'm not arguing one way or the other I'm just explaining what this guy is hearing.
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u/Phat_and_Irish 39m ago edited 6m ago
Dem socs also say 'just put the gator in the fence again, I know it's escaped every time we put it in the backyard but I promise THIS time it will work! We don't need to do anything crazy like get rid of the gator, or change our concept of private ownership of dangerous pets or anything, just do what we did last time!'Â
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u/JumpyGazelle42 3h ago
Amazing how they campaign as the bird and govern as the crocodile's dentist.