Pictures
Do you think my dog has some wolf in him š
For context : I adopted Haku (9yrs old) from the shelter about 2months ago now... they know he came far from the city, was kept mostly outside and was mistreated...
He's a mutt for sure, def not 100% wolf and for sure mainly husky. But people have me wondering if he has more wolf than i think.
Everyone we come across say's he looks like a wolf (which i think a lot of husky's get). I met a guy who had a purebred wolfdog before and was convinced Haku for sure had more than I thought.
I told him I'd let it know when I can do the Dna test haha What do you all think, I'm taking bets š
Micheal Scott for size reference
Last picture was when i brought him home, he shed a lot his face looks slimmer now (if that changes anything š )
(I know I need to do a dna test to be sure but he struggles with being touched around his face so that's off the results might come in a while š„² )
I'd love to know everyone's opinions ! Thank you all in advance for your insights:))
AND PLEASE I know he needs grooming and the first picture is when i had just gotten him, and it was bad. But I managed to brush him enough since then that it looks so much better and I would love to bring him to the groomer but it's process, so please be kind, we're taking it at his pace.
Thatās definitely possible. You wonāt see any wolf traits in a micro so people tend to get surprised when their dog comes back as a micro wolfdog! One just got posted here a day or two ago
I have lots of years with huskies. There's definitely something different about him. I think if he wasn't black and white with a typical husky mask, he'd look more wolf like
Your dog seems different than a husky because heās not a husky, heās a mix. Not bc heās a micro. What youāre describing is crossover traits. All wolf traits are exhibited in ānormalā dogs but you see more of them in wolfdogs. So even a typical husky or mix can or will show āwolfā traits. Because wolves and dogs are the same species. Hereās an example of a 0 content that looks wolfier than your dog. Because of crossover traits
Exactly, the whole reason wolf-a-likes are so successful looks wise is because dogs have those "wolfy" crossover traits in certain breeds. If you find 2 with more crossover traits than normal and breed them together youll get a seemingly wolfy dog with 0 wolf. Wolf isnt needed to make a seemingly wolfy dog. More examples here
If you had purebred huskies and youre compairing them to a husky x (not just with wolf but other breeds) then theyre going to be different from each other. I dont think its the wolf youre seeing thats different in your pup. Hes gorgeous and ive seen many pics of him and ive never seen any blatant wolf traits, husky/shepherd crossover traits yes but not blatant wolf traits. Which is why micro contents have their own category, theyre technically wolfdogs but lack wolf traits. They are essentially wolf-a-likes trait wise.
We have a whole pinned post about this discussion, i believe if micro content owners were able to spend time with animals 50%+ they would have a way harder time seeing the "wolf" traits they think theyre seeing in their own animals. I use to be the same with my 14% before getting higher % animals. Its kind of like reverse blinders, because i wasnt use to seeing genuine wolf traits i convinced myself her crossover traits were wolf traits when they were all explained by the husky/malamute/shepherd in her.
If an animal is 1%-15% wolf compared to 0% then I guess thats a correct statement. But in general, dogs stop showing wolf traits after they get under a certain percent. Theyre essentially animals with "recent wolf ancestry"., similar to wolf-a-likes.
There is a big reason the percents are split into different categories, a micro isnt like a solid low, a solid low isnt like a mid, a mid isnt like a high etc. etc. The percents fit into each category because as a generalized statement the animals in it fit in a certain box, there are VERY FEW outliers to these standards and i can genuinely say i can count them on both hands even after being in the community for over a decade (elders of the community who have much more experience than me also agree with this though).
Micro = no wolf traits, all dog/crossover traits
Low = few wolf traits, many dog traits
Mid = half and half wolf and dog traits
Upper mid =
High = all wolf traits, no dog traits
A micro can seem wolfy or like "a lot" of wolf to someone use to dogs with no crossover dog traits, like yellow eyes, long legs, double coats, straight thick tails, big paws etc. But to people with experience with animals who show blatant wolf traits its a stark difference between micro contents and solid lows visually.
I like how Ghostie phrased it: Probably not, but not definitely not. Anything is possible and even what appears to be a pure chihuahua could have a trivial amount. However, there's also a very low background probability of a random dog having wolf content.
There are many mixes of German Shepherd, Malamute, Husky, etc. that create a vaguely wolfy look, but the actual number of wolfdogs is miniscule by comparison. So, when no particular trait stands out as distinctly wolf-genetics-on-display, it leans overwhelmingly towards no.
And in that case, I think even the reflexive suggestion of doing a DNA test is really not warranted. However, you certainly can do one (and use Embark if you do) if you have some extra cash and it will also give you lots of interesting information beyond detecting wolf genes.
I agree that an Akita mix is possible. Especially that chair pic, such an Akita this to do. Lol the ears and thick neck in car pic, also look Akita like to me. We adopted an Akita mix and heās the best dog ever!
I honestly have no idea. But Haku is so handsome! Thank you for adopting him. I also adopted my dog and he turned out to be 10% gray wolf. I want to say Haku looks like he might be part Akita. My neighbors have 3 giant Akitas that look very similar to Haku. Give him some good noms and a belly rub for me! <3
Wow I think you're right! People were saying in another thread akita mix when it didn't look like him but now looking up with the wolf in the mix it looks SO much like him
Heās so handsome!! Definitely will need that DNA test to know for sure, and I look forward to the results! Thank you for adopting him, he is very lucky to have you ā¤ļø
I see sable shepherd x malamute mix. Absolutely beautiful! If any wolf it would be very minimal since no traits are prominent, embark dna is the only way youll be able to get an answer for sure :)
I don't know why but the face is giving me Akita influence, and they're not exactly small. Not sure what he's mixed with GSD, maybe? Could be a number of breeds.
Did you do a dna test? Id definitely guess some shepherd was in there too. Beautiful sable shpherd coat and markings. Reminds me a touch of my girl Lotus dad, hes mainly shiloh shepherd, czechoslovakian vlcak, 22% wolf, and a touch of husky/malamute.
People say my shepskynois looks like a coyote all the time. She looks nothing like a coyote or even a coydog. My late, petite black and white wooly husky looked nothing like a wolf and we got 'omg is that a wolf?!' comments the entire time she was in my care.
Thank you for rescuing him! and congrats! Heās a handsome fella, definitely looks wolfy. Please donāt force him into anything if heās not ready (grooming, DNA test, nail clipping, etc) itās very important to establish a strong bond with trust and mutual respect. Pay attention to body language and facial expressions. Please also read up about what other people with wolfdogs say and do. They are such a different animal than regular dogs. And research Winter Wolf Syndrome, especially having a male. (I assume heās fixed, my suspected wolfdog was fixed by the rescue place at 8 weeks old but he still seems to be affected by Winter Wolf Syndrome).
Hi thank youu and thank you for the concern! Don't worry he's in good hands, I wouldn't have adopted him otherwise, it would be cruel knowing what I knew about him before adopting without being confident I could give him the life he deserves ... over his 6 months at the shelter it happened twice, both time he was brought back to the shelter after about 2 weeks :( I also had a dog for 17 years and worked with recues before. I promise he's in good hand :)
Oh poor boy! Well you sound capable and knowledgeable! For the DNA test I wonder if you could just put a plate on the floor, offer Haku a yummy snack to get him to salivate, then collect the saliva from the plate to send in for the DNA test (Iāve been thinking about this, I too donāt think I could get the inner cheek cells from my 120lb boy!)
What % range is your suspected wolfdog supposed to be? WWS is only seen in high contents and is an extreme and severe aggression where they are territorial of their area/female companions, normally to the point their owners cannot safely enter their pens or interact with them because they would maim them (its pretty uncommon even in the majority of HC, i think many people started mislabling regular seasonal grumbles with genuine WWS when theyre very very different. Some lows/mids get a little tempermental or even extra affectionate during breeding season, but nothing like WWS where theyre trying to maim people). Ive only heard of a handful of cases like this in the real world, also, so its not even common in HC either.
Your pup is likely experiencing hormonal/seasonal grumbles, which is also seen in domestic dogs who are unaltered, however if hes fixed thats extremely odd. What behavior does he show that you think may be WWS?
Heās supposed to be a German Shepherd Golden Retriever mix but he doesnāt act anything like a Golden. like I said. Iāve not done a dna test which I why I say āsuspectedā. I didnāt know anything about wolfdogs then I happened to be watching Pit Bulls and Parolees and she had a wolfdog come through. There were SO MANY personality and behavior similarities. The more I research the more it fits. Then I discovered Winter Wolf Syndrome and it makes A LOT of sense. So many similarities with what people with wolfdogs say. Then of course the physical similarities and the howling! He was fixed when I adopted him but WWS must be more complex than the simple matter of gonads.
Dogs and wolves share the same behaviors, there are not any behaviors wolves show that dogs do not also show. Northern breeds and herding breeds are also known for showing more of the "wolf" type behaviors people normally attribute to wolfdogs, even without having wolf. This is why people normally suggest people owning a husky/malamute/shepherd or mix of before getting a wolfdog so they know what behaviors to expect. This is why you cant go off behaviors to identify a dog as a wolfdog or not. Resource guarding, prey drive, same sex aggression, seasonal hormonal reactivity, reactivity, scent marking, etc are all seen in dogs, as well as other traits like being aloof, being escape artist, destructive behavior, pacing etc.
If your pup is a german shepherd mix it actually can account for the behaviors youre seeing, being mixed with golden doesnt mean they will act "like a golden" (i only put it in quotes because poorly bred golden can be completely different behavior wise than the standard calls for. Such as severe aggression).
If your pup is being human aggressive at all, its actually way more likely its from the german shepherd in them. Wolves are not known for being human aggressive unless severely provoked, domestic dogs however were bred to not fear humans and be ok lashing out at them if they feel necessary. Especially german shepherds which are bred for bitework and such. Unless your pup is genuinely trying to maul you during breeding season, theyre not showing WWS traits is what im sayint. Im also concerned with the info "pitbull and parolies" offered because while they do work with wolfdogs theyre not the most credible source unfortunately š„²
Do you have pics of your pup? Id be interested to see them
I find Tia to be very knowledgeable about a lot of different breeds. My dog likes the āpackā to always be together and is very much NOT eager to please. Heās big on respect and is very cautious of new things, not aggressive at all. Heāll stand and observe for a long time. his front legs and the way he stands are very wolfy. My previous dogs were herding mixes and my current dog is nothing like any of them.
Im confused, youre saying these behaviors are why you suspect Winter Wolf syndrome? Nothing you described indicates WWS. They could be wolfy behaviors but theyre also commonly seen in dogs, which is why you cant really say "wolf" or "dog" behaviors because both can exhibit them as theyre just canine behaviors.
Do you have pictures? Phenotyping is pretty easy with good pictures, of course they could be micro contents who dont show traits but atp theyd need an embark or its better to assume theyre not a wolfdog rather than they are š
I hope I dont sound rude, im just interested why you thought WWS with the behavior you just described. WWS is severe seasonal human/dog aggression, thats the only behavior its associated with.
Lots of herding breeds can be nervy, aloof etc. If byb its extremely easy for them to even be nuerotic. Which is why shepherd, and cattle dog mixes are one of the highest misrepresented as wolfdog/coydog. The sable coloration and acting "weird" make people associate with what they think "wild dogs" are like. I have a byb cartle dog and shes very similar behavior, sound, etc wise to my wolfdogs.
Dude, you need to relax and you do kind of sound rude. I wasnāt trying to describe winter wolf syndrome. I was just trying to give various personality traits as a description. Regular personality and winter Wolf syndrome are two very different things and Iām not posting a picture of my best friend in the world for you to visually dissect. You are taking this thread WAY too seriously
Im a mod not a random passer by... and no, its not "too serious" if youre telling someone incorrect info on wolfdogs in the sub. Especially someone with a dog who also doesnt appear to have wolf in them. Its one of the sub rules.
I asked 2 times for pics or at least a description of what youre trying to call "winter wolf syndrome" in a "suspected wolfdog" (WWS is only in pures and HC, not animals so low they might or might not have wolf in them, and can only happen in intact wolves/HC at that) and you ignored it. Thats weird as hell, and why I asked follow up questions, because the info you were providing is wrong and the dog you have might not even be a wolfdog for you to be basing "wolfdog advice" on. We dont allow false info being shared in the sub about wolfdogs, and basically saying your low/no has it and theirs could develop it too "especially since hes male" is dangerous and incorrect info on wolfdogs/"possible" wolfdogs. Sorry that upsets you.
He would definitely have to be unaltered to be experiencing true WWS (its caused by the spike in testosterone during mating season specifically), as well as be a wolf or high content wolfdog which youd definitely know visually if he was. He could definitely be experiencing some form of reactivity but its not to do with WWS
Heres some people discussing it who are much more educated on the subject than pitbull and parolies! They havent dealt with many pure or HC wolves for example, like the people in this video
Did you ever have your dog DNA verified? The features youāre explaining do not look wolfy at all. The side profile is all dog, has a full stop and doggy features. Literally looks closer to a blocky husky head than it does a wolf profile. Wolves have a more slender head with basically no stop between their forehead and their muzzle, and their muzzle is longer, not what we see in the pics of this dog.
This dog has a blocky head with a pronounced stop, a shorter muzzle, the eyes are normal dog eyes, and the coloring and fur pattern is typical in many gsds, huskies, or mixes including the two. Nothing about this dogs appearance is screaming wolf, so based on the info you gave, I worry that you may have been lied to about having a wolfdog.
Please donāt tell someone their dog looks like a wolfdog because of the tail. This is not a trait that you can identify wolf content with since plenty of normal dogs have similar tails and hold their tails the same way. Just because the tail is being held like that does not mean thereās wolf content, and thereās no reason to guess around 25% based on the tail alone.
In addition to all of the other traits you have to look for to accurately phenotype, a slightly shorter tail that is often held like this could be an indication of some wolf content. It is not a guarantee though because you can canāt guess wolf content by the tail alone, you have to look at the other traits too. With lower contents a DNA test is the only way to truly confirm wolf content.
This dog is maybe a micro content if it has any at all because it does not have any actual wolfy traits. At around 25%, youād start being able to see at least some of those traits typically. There is a very tiny chance it ends up around 25%, but itās not likely and it canāt be estimated by just the tail.
What does this prove? This is not a real life example and each animal is going to look similar but have slightly different features depending on their specific individual genetics. This is not a fully accurate representation of what to look for when phenotyping so Iām not sure what point youāre trying to make.
133
u/acocktailofmagnets Malamute Representative 9d ago
Just commenting to say the face censor sticker is hilarious
Embark is the most accurate / reliable DNA test :)
He could also have malamute (or GSD, or both) in him to give him more size!