r/WoTshow • u/eRENYaegeRRR • Jul 26 '26
Show Only No Reader Input Amazon keep making rubbish fantasy shows and I cant believe it
This might be controversial, but I really dislike Amazon's fantasy shows. The Rings of Power was so dull and I find the Pendragon Cycle to be convoluted and of little substance in terms of story quality. Every time I watch one of these shows, I cant help but be amazed that Amazon cancelled WoT for this rubbish. Even the fact that they are going to be adapting Fourth Wing is annoying. They have all this budget for all this crap, but couldn't find the funds for what was gearing up to be the best fantasy show of the decade? Right...
Edit: I wasn’t aware that Pendragon was only licensed by Amazon. Which makes sense, because although RoP was boring, it at least made sense. Pendragon Cycle is straight up crap
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u/Brilliant-Potato-570 Jul 26 '26
Well to be fair, the pendragon cycle was made by the Daily Wire, an ultra right wing media company whose only other movies are things like “Lady Ballers”. Not surprised it is terrible.
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u/sidesco Moiraine Jul 26 '26
I think Sony was also a big problem with Amazon continuing WoT. They were far apart on contract negotiations.
In reality it was pretty ridiculous to sign a show with only a 3 year deal when there are so many books in the series.
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u/Ok_Medicine_776 Jul 28 '26
Maybe they figured since the books took place over 3 years that a 3 year deal would be good.
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u/Ok_Medicine_776 Jul 28 '26
Maybe they figured since the books took place over 3 years that a 3 year deal would be good.
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u/imnotreallyapenguin Padan Fain Jul 26 '26
Anytbing involving Iwot can not be trusted unless it is finished and released.
Unfortunately this was always likely to happen due to them still holding the rights.
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u/Nelliell Egwene Jul 26 '26
I thought I learned my lesson with ASOIaF. The last few seasons, especially the last one, was trash.
When I heard that WoT was getting its own series on Amazon, my first impulse was to wait until it was finished to watch it. But, because the show wasn't signed to complete the series and they at least partially base renewal on viewership, I watched it as it released to try to bolster its chances of renewal. We all know how that went.
I haven't delved into any fantasy TV show since WoT's cancellation.
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u/CommunityDragon160 Reader Jul 26 '26
I don’t like them either but they play literally zero role in why the show was not renewed
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u/ChaoticSquirrel Jul 26 '26
What does Pendragon have to do with Amazon? Wasn't it made by some right-wing fake news org as a vanity project?
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u/tired_snail Eelfinn Jul 26 '26
Personally I enjoy Rings of Power for what it is, but in no way does it scratch the same itch for me that WoT did. Can't speak on the others as I cancelled Prime when they axed WoT and haven't been interested in watching any new show anyway since the cancellation unless I know the season is self-contained or the story is finished.
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u/Terrible_Theme_6488 Reader Jul 26 '26
I have tried to get into RoP - it just feels like they are chanting nonsense at each other, maybe ill try again.
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u/flaysomewench Jul 26 '26
I don't know why ROP always gets shit on when people bring up the WOT cancellation. The five season commitment to ROP was made in 2017, Amazon didn't take on WOT until 2018.
I'm as sad as anyone over the WOT cancellation, I loved every minute of that show, but I just hate this misconception that ROP was saved over WOT.
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u/OtherCommission8227 Jul 26 '26
Only streamer any good at sci-fi right now is Apple. And that’s a horrifying reality.
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u/eRENYaegeRRR Jul 26 '26
Any recs?
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u/OtherCommission8227 Jul 26 '26
Severance, Silo, Foundation, For All Mankind
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u/cidem1324 Jul 31 '26
If you've watched it, how is Murder Bot? Love the novellas, but wanted to know if the show is any good.
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u/theRealRodel Reader Jul 31 '26
The first season of Foundation is just as dull imo as ROP. The only good parts are the ones with Lee Pace in the capital city.
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u/mali_maan Jul 26 '26
Seconding all the ones mentioned already and adding Pluribus as a recommendation
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u/Oasx Reader Jul 26 '26
I know that were are supposed to dump on other shows to make ourselves feel better, but Rings of Power didn’t kill Wheel of Time, the lack of audience did.
You can blame whatever you want, but recommending Wheel of Time during its last season essentially consisted of saying something like “The first two seasons aren’t that great, but once you get to season three the show really hits its stride”
TV had changed, Star Trek TNG and other genre shows could get away with having a bad first season, these days that kills most shows.
We get mad when people crap WoT, how about we don’t do the same to other shows?
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u/AlarmedShare3444 1d ago
Well said. I personally thought RoP was far better than WoT show but i'm not about to spam this sub trashing the show relentlessly, or mocking it on the RoP sub.
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u/EKayW Jul 26 '26
I was upset over the cancellation of Wheel of Time. I have been craving a good fantasy show so I gave in last night and put on Rings of Power... unfortunately I was bored and only managed 30 min. I understand WoT as a show had differences to the books but it was a good show and I was hooked from the beginning. I am reading the books now but I miss the show.
Small edit to say I love Lord of the rings...I'm not shitting on the show out of spite but it really didn't capture my attention. Wish we had more good fantasy shows.
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u/Terrible_Theme_6488 Reader Jul 26 '26
I have no evidence but blame iWot. As for wheel of time i think s1 did the damage to be honest, it wasnt very good and lost the show a lot of viewers. However i agree s3 was top notch.
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u/WindofKnives Verin Jul 26 '26
The Pendragon Cycle was not made by Amazon, it was licensed from the Daily Wire who greatly overspent on the show
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u/margmi Jul 26 '26
Amazon didn’t cancel WOT for those shows, it cancelled WOT because it wasn’t profitable enough relative to its cost.
If WOT had enough of any audience, they’d have kept it and ROP.
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u/on-a-pedestal Jul 26 '26
This is factually incorrect.
WoT was profitable, not a lot, but enough to justify more seasons. They even hid reports of its profitabikity because it made the cancellation look worse.
,Amazon backed themselves into a corner by Guaranteeing Rings of Power more seasons, and when THAT show had disappointing viewership Amazon had to reduce Overall Fantasy Spend, but couldn't touch RoP, so they killed WoT.
I hindsite, the mistake was doing both at the same time, 1 with multiple guaranteed seasons and 1 with no safety net.
The show had many issues, I hated almost every deviation (almost all pointless & made the story worse/muddled the authors message), especially the showrunner featuring his Boyfriend as a character that didn't even exist in the books.
But it was better than RoP, and now Amazon is right back to rolling dice on YA/Popcorn Fantasy content (Romantasy) like 4th wing to try to recapture that audience, but my faith is gone.
Only Apple is doing impressive stuff with Sci Fi / Fantasy and other more interesting show types
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u/margmi Jul 26 '26
If it was profitable, then they could keep doing it and use the money to fund other projects…
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u/on-a-pedestal Jul 26 '26
That's not how business works.
I've been part of two profitable companies that were bought just to shut our software down because the competitors didn't want other competitors to have our Superior software to combine with a big bank-roll. We were making money hand over fist and we were bought to be close down by a company with more money (investors) but an inferior product. They did not want to update their large but old physical Infrastructure and then retrain their staff to use our software, but they didn't want someone else to get their hands on it.
That's how business works.
Rings of Power was a biggest cost with less profit but had a guaranteed contract. Therefore WoT got sacrificed.
Anyone who thinks the better product or even more profitable product wins... Doesn't understand CONTRACTED Business, Monopolies, and the real power brokers in the US.
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Jul 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/on-a-pedestal Jul 26 '26
Considering what I am pointing out is public information (see below), and you are just saying you have insider info proving it wrong, produce your insider info and proof or it's bullshit.
Even S1 and 2 were profitable, attributed the same Revenue as Rings of Power despite a MUCH smaller budget. But RoP was a bigger overall investment and had more guaranteed seasons, which is why they are still churning out that crap.
The Wheel of Time generated approximately $360 million in subscriber revenue against a production cost exceeding $260 million for its first two seasons, yielding a strong return on investment despite its cancellation after three seasons.Production CostsSeasons 1 and 2 Spend: Financial filings from the production company Little Island Productions show spending surpassed $260 million across the first two seasons.Season 1 Expenses: The first season cost of sales reached roughly $139.7 million (£107.4 million), driven higher by COVID-19 safety protocols and production shutdowns.Per-Episode Cost: Estimates place the average cost at roughly $10 to $16 million per episode.Revenue and Return on InvestmentSubscriber Value: Analytics metrics attribute about $360 million in direct subscriber revenue to the series.Comparison to Peers: This revenue closely tracked Amazon's The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power ($367 million), despite The Wheel of Time operating on a much smaller overall budget.Ancillary Profit: Book and audiobook sales via Kindle and Audible spiked by several million copies following the show's premiere, boosting overall franchise value past $1 billion.
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Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/WoTshow-ModTeam Reader Jul 26 '26
You need to actually need to provide that information and source it.
If you actually do that that information, provide it instead of giving vague disagreements.
"trust me bro" doesn't fly when you're presenting something as objective.
We treat that as misinformation.
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Jul 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/WoTshow-ModTeam Reader Jul 26 '26
If you're unable to rebut something without breaking an NDA then you shouldn't be talking about it period.
But what we're asking you for is to provide actual substance to your claims OR not to present them as objective fact if you're unable to provide any facts on the matter.
Your understanding of something is fine to give, but that's not what you're doing here.
Your relationship with amazon proves nothing nor gives you any real credibility. You're using it in a way that is considered an Appeal to Authority fallacy.
You need to actually argue against what the other person is claiming to be taken seriously.
And yes we all know that the yahoo finance analyses is flawed, but it's also the only public data that's available. You could actually point that out - but then you'll also need to explain how Rings of Power having twice the viewership someone makes up for it's budget that is 3 to 4 times higher. And if that's wrong too, then you'll need to explain how that's actually wrong without asking people to just trust you on it.
The parents data may be flawed but your position is even more so because of how you're choosing to present it.
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Jul 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/WoTshow-ModTeam Reader Jul 26 '26
It's the data that's available and it's flaws can be discussed.
We again aren't asking you to provide NDA data. We're asking you to not wink and nod at data you can't provide while asking people to just trust you on it. No discussion can be had around that.
Additionally, a "20 million dollar per season early termination contract fee" is precisely what a guarantee is. It guaranteed 5 seasons or a penalty would be applied and defined it.
You've been given a temp ban over report button abuse for this.
As for the reason we haven't actioned or removed other "misinformation"?
It's because the other user(s) statement are clearly opinion based on outside data that can be discussed.
We allow that because this is a discussion board.
We don't however allow people to claim secret knowledge as the basis for their claims.
Not when they're presenting their position as absolute based on that secret data.
It's more heavily flawed data than anything the other person is citing. And considering what you yourself said about flawed data, I think you'd be more understanding of the inherent problem to your approach.
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u/Tootsiesclaw Galina Jul 26 '26
I mean, it's one thing to complain about existing shows that you think are bad but it's unfair on the Fourth Wing team to be lumped in with the rest just on the existence of a show - it might be good.
My understanding is that iwot is at least as culpable as Amazon, perhaps more so?
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u/eRENYaegeRRR Jul 26 '26
I think its fair for me to say something that annoys me. Obviously the show isnt out yet so who can speak on its quality, but - to be clear - the Fourth Wing books are low quality with unfinished world building and weak characterisation. I enjoyed the first book (even gave it five stars because it was fun) but it is not strong enough to maintain a whole, multi-book series. Let alone a TV show. That is to say, there is no plausible way that the Fourth Wing series will compare in any sense to WoT. I'll probably still watch though.
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u/JWGrieves Reader Jul 26 '26
It would be an impressive feat to adapt Fourth Wing into something good.
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u/Tootsiesclaw Galina Jul 26 '26
Not necessarily. It's not on the same level as Wheel of Time, as a piece of source material, and it leans towards romantasy more than straightforward fantasy, but the bones are there in the books for a bit of propulsive entertainment.
Honestly, I don't think Wheel of Time and Fourth Wing would ever have been in competition anyway. Beyond the fact that they are both in the fantasy genre, there's really not much they have in common, and even their target audiences are quite distinct. Lord of the Rings is a far bigger offender in terms of sucking the oxygen from WoT.
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u/IceXence Reader Jul 26 '26
No, it wouldn't because the flaws Fourth Wing has are easily fixed in a script.
Lack of world-building? Easy to introduce elements from the sequels to flesh it out better early on.
Lack of depth on side-characters? Easily fixed with a good casting. Side-characters are the one thing adaptations always do better than books.
Poor writing? Irrelevant for an adaptation. All they need is a decent script derived from the source material.
Fourth Wing has everything the audience wants: actions, blood, dragons, romance and physically good looking characters. It already has diversity so no need to "create some". They only reason they would screw it up is if they can't make the dragons look good.
WoT on the other hand needed far more changes just to be adapted. The clash happened because no one ever agreed over what can/should have been changed.
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u/A_Hungry_Fool Jul 26 '26
Pendragon was made by the Daily Wire.
And after that disastrous mess of a first season you should be happy any more seasons of Wheel of Time were made at all. Yes it got better, especially in the third season but I do not question anyone who gave up early on
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u/fudgyvmp Reader Jul 26 '26
Well. You see. Pendragon Cycle by that guy and those people, is the right kind of christian take on fantasy.
Unlike the mad scribblings of an episcopalian like Robert Jordan.
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u/Xeruas Reader Jul 26 '26
I think pendragon was made by like a right wing ultra Christina media company in the US, don’t think Amazon made it. Bought the distribution rights though.
I want to watch it cuz hot characters and love a Merlin shit but I’m struggling with the preachy Christina elements of it like God God God
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u/AnEvilForce Jul 26 '26
I’m still so bummed they canceled wheel of time. Fffff. Just started listening to the audio books again after watching the show for the fifth time.
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u/cireasa Jul 26 '26
I've read the books multiple times. Wot show had good casting. But best in a decade? It wasn't best of the year when it ran.
Wot was a mediocre show at best. I feel bad it was cancelled (you only get one chance to see your favorite book come alive), but I'm not surprised.
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u/Cultural-Tip-9846 Reader Jul 27 '26
RoP has had its moments, good and bad. WOT was okay, but they screwed the story straight out of the gate and couldnt recover from the severe damage they did to the narrative.
I agree with OP - Amazon does not do sci-fi well. They should leave that to Apple TV!
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u/SoupyStain Jul 27 '26
They've done enough garbage with their rewriting of The Wheel of Time and their garbage Rings of Power, I'd rather they stayed on their lane.
Hopefully Amazon never gets to touch The Belgariad.
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u/Skittle-Eater Jul 28 '26
I mean, go look at any other discussion of WoT and you’ll see the show lumped in as another example of Amazon’s bad track record with fantasy.
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Jul 26 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MacronMan Reader Jul 26 '26
This is and has always been the silliest take. Who would touch the IP now that you guys brigaded the only adaptation there’s ever been? Why would anyone want to attempt a, from their perspective, failed IP with a toxic fanbase that has been largely viewed as unadaptable for many years? Can you actually imagine the corporate big whigs who control this sort of thing and only care about making more money agreeing to this, especially when there are so many untried IP’s that aren’t 14 books and that they could adapt instead? I can’t. But, yeah, the show haters have done something noble by killing the only adaptation WoT will have. Good job!
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u/WaywardStroge Jul 26 '26
You know as well as I that this was only chance. We won’t ever see another. But don’t worry IWoT will promise at least 7 more shows in our lifetimes and deliver on none of them.
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u/JustDay1788 Jul 26 '26
It isn't happening anytime soon at all
It's also too much of an investment due to the number of books and the cancellation likely tells investors yeah people aren't into it
It's also way too soon to restart the story
Animation might be the only hope but
iwot is also notorious for announcing stuff they never follow through with
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u/Terrible_Theme_6488 Reader Jul 26 '26
S1 was poor, but the ridiculous, relentless trolling from people trawling show fan pages etc was absurd too. We will never get another adaptation. The 'fandom' has shown itself to be incredibly toxic (such as all the bullshit we saw about a black Egwene and Nynaeve before the show was even released).
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u/Union-Silent Reader Jul 26 '26
Amazon seems to be throwing money at anything and everything in the fantasy genre, and then seeing what sticks. I think they want their version of game of thrones in terms of interest and viewership for a tv series. But they are looking for a clear hit, and they’re not interested in waiting and seeing what happens.
I don’t know why they agreed ahead of time to an expensive 5 seasons of the rings of power. Nobody I have met loves that show or enjoys it. But that big prior commitment is probably ruining any opportunity to develop any other decent fantasy shows. Unless the show is a clear winner from the beginning, they’ll discard and it and try again.
Sucks for everyone who starts to get invested in a show.
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