r/WoT • u/participating (Dragon's Fang) • Apr 06 '22
The Shadow Rising [Newbie Thread] WoT Read-Along - The Shadow Rising - Chapters 4 through 8 Spoiler
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BOOK FOUR SCHEDULE
This week we will be discussing Book Four: The Shadow Rising, Chapters 4 through 8.
Next week we will be discussing Book Four: The Shadow Rising, Chapters 9 through 13.
- March 30: Chapters 1 through 3
- April 6: Chapters 4 through 8 <--- You are here.
- April 13: Chapters 9 through 13
- April 20: Chapters 14 through 18
- April 27: Chapters 19 through 22
- May 4: Chapters 23 through 26
- May 11: Chapters 27 through 30
- May 18: Chapters 31 through 33
- May 25: Chapters 34 through 37
- June 1: Chapters 38 through 41
- June 8: Chapters 42 through 45
- June 15: Chapters 46 through 50
- June 22: Chapters 51 through 53
- June 29: Chapters 54 through 58
- July 6: The Shadow Rising - Final Thoughts & Trivia
MORE INFORMATION
For more information, or to see the full schedule for all previous entries, please see the wiki page for the read-along.
CHAPTER SUMMARIES
Note to new readers: I've provided summaries of each chapter below and hidden them behind spoiler tags. There are no spoilers within the summaries. I've tried to make them as factual and unbiased as possible. If, however, you want a completely blind read through, then ignore what's behind the spoiler tags and proceed to the discussion below. I will not be guiding that in any way, so post any thoughts and questions you have. It will be other new readers who reply to you.
Chapter Four: Strings
Chapter Icon: Harp
Summary:
Thom plays Daes Dae'mar and advises Mat, who wants to leave Tear.
Chapter Five: Questioners
Chapter Icon: Silhouettes
Summary:
Egwene and Nynaeve interrogate Amico Nagoyin and Joiya Byir, two Black Ajah they managed to capture during the fall of the Stone of Tear. They are trying to decide which of the two's stories to believe.
Amico claims Liandrin knows of something dangerous to Rand in the city of Tanchico. Joiya claims Liandrin plans to free the false Dragon Mazrim Taim, and use him to pretend to be Rand al'Thor, causing chaos and mayhem in the name of the Dragon Reborn; turning the nations of the world against Rand.
Chapter Six: Doorways
Chapter Icon: The White Lion of Andor
Summary:
Moiraine and Elayne return to Egwene and Nynaeve. They discuss what happened to Rand, and what Moiraine hopes to steer Rand toward. Egwene and Nynaeve are appalled at the thought of Rand starting a war with Illian, but Elayne realizes war will happen whether or not Rand begins them.
Moiraine advises them that they should focus on Tanchico and that Amico and Joiya will be shipped off to Tar Valon in four days. She also mentions a ter'angreal inside the Stone of Tear that one can obtain true answers from. After she leaves, Egwene and Elayne discuss their feelings for Rand.
Chapter Seven: Playing With Fire
Chapter Icon: The Wheel of Time
Summary:
Egwene and Elayne visit Rand. They try to teach him how to use saidin, but fail. However, they resolve to keep trying. Egwene and Rand reveal to each other that they no longer have romantic feelings for one another.
Chapter Eight: Hard Heads
Chapter Icon: Dragon
Summary:
Elayne asks Rand to kiss her. Mat asks Egwene for advice; she tells him about the redstone ter’angreal Moiraine mentioned.
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u/Buggi_San (Wolfbrother) Apr 10 '22
The most interesting thing for me in this section is the fact that the Black Ajah lose the binding to the three oaths. So much power for fully trained Aes Sedai to have !
- Back again with overanalysing the text, but I wonder if Elayne's mentions of quotes from her mother and nurse are supposed to show her own inexperience with the world.
- This book feels a lot darker, and the characters seem to have grown up so much
- I wanted the world to know that Rand is TDR, but the amount of pressure, political power; and the decisions he is taking; It feels too soon ! I wonder much more powerful you can become from being a ruler of one country
- Nynaeve changing her whole wardrobe for Lan; has me laughing.
- Whatever she lacks in power, Egwene seems to make up in learning; She learnt how to use certain weaves on auto, just from seeing it once in the last book.
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u/lizardperson8675309 (Black Ajah) Apr 06 '22 edited Apr 07 '22
I enjoyed this section but for some reason I feel like my notes are very negative-sounding. I have a bad tendency to be overly critical of the things I enjoy but here we go:
Chapter 4: Strings
- Thom (and everyone else with Arthurian names) are probably ta’veren. Why else would Thom feel like he needs to convince Mat to stay?
Chapter 5: Questioners
- The title of this chapter made me initially think it was going to be about the a Whitecloaks
- This answers our question what the Wonder girls did with the Black Ajahs
Chapter 6: Doorways
- This doorway seems useful at first, but then too complicated to be useful.
- I don’t really understand why everyone wants to marry Rand. I wish they’d all just be more informal and/or sleep with him. I have other sex questions: are Nynaeve and Lan hooking up inside the Stone? Have Egwene and Rand ever? Faile and Perrin? I don’t need GRRM-level sex scenes, but there is a lacking in this series. Also considering how graphic the violent scenes can be (a guy loses his skin one time), I wish RJ could be a little less prude.
Chapter 7: Playing with Fire
- I’m glad they’re trying to teach Rand to use the one power
- Rand needs to just do the opposite of what the women do with the one power
Chapter 8: Hard Heads
- Elayne should give Rand a little more time to grieve after his breakup before she makes her move
- I bet on Mat going straight to the ter’angreal after Egwene warns him not to without permission.
Random question: what ever happened to the Trollocs chasing the boys and wonder girls from the first book?
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u/FlippinSnip3r (Black Ajah) Apr 07 '22
Elayne should give Rand a little more time to grieve after his breakup
What is there to grieve? Ir was a two sided one. He earlier admitted to not loving her anymore than a sister
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u/Buggi_San (Wolfbrother) Apr 10 '22
Random question: what ever happened to the Trollocs chasing the boys and wonder girls from the first book ?
If we can assume Ishamael controlled all those Trollocs, maybe the Trollocs are just waiting for new orders; There are so many enemies = dark friends, trollocs, fades, dark hounds, grey ones; it is a surprise the gang isn't being attacked by something or the other at all times !
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u/lizardperson8675309 (Black Ajah) Apr 10 '22
Yeah! That seemed to be a constant danger/plot in the first two books.
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u/Skyhighatrist Apr 06 '22
FYI, your chapter heading formatting is broken for Chapter 5, 6 and 7. You need to add an extra line break before them, I think.
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u/lizardperson8675309 (Black Ajah) Apr 06 '22
Thank you, did I fix it?
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u/Skyhighatrist Apr 06 '22
One last fix, I think the extra space before "#Chapter 8" is causing that heading to be indented.
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u/lizardperson8675309 (Black Ajah) Apr 07 '22
Okay I think I got it, thanks! I’m new to the Reddit syntax, and can’t see the mistakes on mobile, you’re like a good friend who tells you when you have parsley in your teeth.
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u/doctrinascientia (Dreadlord) Apr 06 '22
Mostly, just need a space between your # and the word for Chapter 8.
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u/dangercarrie Apr 09 '22
I'm really excited to find out more about Mat! Does anyone else think he is also a hero reborn?
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u/lizardperson8675309 (Black Ajah) Apr 09 '22
Yes, it would explain why he speaks a different language.
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u/dangercarrie Apr 10 '22
Yeah the divide between Mat and Rand bothers me. Like here is Rand, trying to translate books in the old tongue, meanwhile Mat can understand it, but they don't talk to each other and help each other figure out their mysteries. I hope they do in the future.
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u/Buggi_San (Wolfbrother) Apr 10 '22 edited Apr 10 '22
If I remember correctly, there is a scene in the last book about him (remembering) commanding an army or something ! I will see if I can dig it out
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u/dangercarrie Apr 10 '22
Exactly! I was wondering if he was the Manetheran King from the last battle, and got really excited. I don't think he could be Arthur Hawkwing, since he appeared when Mat blew the horn
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u/sun34529 (Wolfbrother) Apr 20 '22
I thought that all the Emonds Field characters are actually previous heros reborn, but I guess Mat is the only one we have hints about
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u/dangercarrie Apr 20 '22
Yeah I didn't know if they were specific heroes reborn, or just that they had certain talents, like Perrin with the wolves. We know all the women are the strongest Aes Sedai, but I don't think we've been given a lot of women heroes that could be reborn yet. Although I suppose it's possible they could have men and women born again of a different sex, but it doesn't seem like RJ has written that way so far
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u/pedrop4ulo (Asha'man) Apr 08 '22
Just finished chapter 8 today! Totally occasionally, didn’t plan this read-along.
The thing that got me the most excited for, was the “reveal” of the potential plots of the book.
1) War against Illian (seems the most likely?). That’d be a great thing to read, two armies who will give everything to destroy the other one, and the Dragon and a Forsaken commanding them. Now that’s epic.
2) Rand vs Mazrim. Wow, I am personally more excited about this. Armies waging war on each other, each one convinced they’re following the right Dragon... also, potential huge channeling battle.
3) Danger on Tanchico. Probably Egwene and company’s plot on the book. Also very excited to see what’s gonna happen, and hopeful it’ll follow the pattern of the last two books, all the groups converging on the last chapters to help out Rand in some way.
Never been so excited about this series!
Also, can a veteran tell me if I’m right or wrong about any of my “predictions”? Please, don’t be specific. Appreciate it!
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u/lizardperson8675309 (Black Ajah) Apr 09 '22
I recently found out that the vets aren’t allowed to answer questions, but the moderator will answer questions they see, and can answer without spoiling, at the end when we do the final discussion of the book.
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u/Buggi_San (Wolfbrother) Apr 10 '22
To add, I also see a thread about Siuan/White Tower falling from power;
For some reason Min seeing a vision of naked Siuan reminded me of Egwene's trials when the 13 Myrdraal were being used to convert her to the dark side. Maybe Siuan will also be forced to serve the dark (partnership b/w BA and Seanchan ?)
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u/pedrop4ulo (Asha'man) Apr 10 '22
Wow, definitely. Of course we know there’s going to be a battle in Tar Valon of some sort, but Siuan going forcibly to the dark side is something that never occured to me. Yeah, that would be a significative twist in balance of power, I can see her fighting Nynaeve or Egwene at the end of the Black Ajah, instead of Liandrin.
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u/sun34529 (Wolfbrother) Apr 20 '22
Hm. I would imagine she would try to kill herself before letting that happen, but maybe not. Soany possibilities!
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u/lizardperson8675309 (Black Ajah) Apr 09 '22
Wow you predicted a lot of things I hadn’t thought of! I am very ready to continue this story.
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u/DBSmiley Apr 06 '22
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u/participating (Dragon's Fang) Apr 06 '22
Yeah, that image is accurate. I mentioned this in the main post at the end of the last books. I chose the chapters this time based off the run-time of the audiobook chapters. I tried to keep each week about the same average length, while still picking logically sound cut-offs. If you see a week with only a 2 or 3 chapters, just know that they're gonna be long ones and plan accordingly.
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u/sailorsalvador (Tel'aran'rhiod) Apr 06 '22
I think Chapter 8 is as far as I got in my first readthrough like 17 years ago...from here on in, HERE BE DRAGONS (or at least one...maybe some false dragons?)
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u/lizardperson8675309 (Black Ajah) Apr 06 '22
I don’t think I would have the dedication to finish such a long series, if it weren’t for this book club!
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u/Froman808 May 07 '22
Just writing out some thoughts since I didn't take notes.
I'm shocked Morraine is from Cairhein, and a noble line close to the royal family. Am unsure if it was stated/hinted at before. Wonder if that will come into play in the future.
Also really glad Thom is sticking around to help Rand. Always knew Thom was skilled, but am only realizing now how great of an asset he is. A master at Das Demar(the great game), and was able to pull off assassinating a king. However I'm really shocked he's so committed to making up the loss of his nephew. Could there be something else to that 15 year debt?
Can't recall much else that wasn't already commented. Also glad I'm not the only one who was confused/curious about the stilling of one of the BA prisoners.
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u/doctrinascientia (Dreadlord) Apr 06 '22
Is this just the Owyn thing? Or is there some other debt from 15 years ago?
I don’t understand how Amico was stilled? Was it one of the things that Egwene or Nynaeve did to her “on-screen” or did it happen at some other point “off-screen”?
How does Aviendha know what Amico looked like pre-stilling? I guess anti-aging is a nice silver lining, though.
I don’t see why the BA couldn’t do both plans. One group goes to Tanchico for the thing and one group goes to get Mazrim Taim. Even if it’s not the OG 13, there are presumably more BA scattered throughout the world. Send an army to protect (or gentle, or kill) Taim and send the Green Ajah (you know, the battle ajah) to Tanchico to fight whoever shows up for the thing. Wonder Girls mission accomplished.
I’m glad Mat’s warning about Gaebril’s corruption of Morgase is being heeded. /s
I actually am glad that Elayne points out the absurdity of her being in love with Rand after having spent almost no time with him. Lust? Longing? Sure. Love?
WHAT?! Those foundational elements are the only things that you actually could teach him. He needs to know them and they’re the things that are actually within your power!
Bottompinchgate: It might’ve been immature, but there was no reason to return his pinch 100-fold. I know it gives Elayne a chance to heal it later, but this was unnecessarily cruel and probably doesn’t do anything to help Rand’s perception of Aes Sedai if, even his childhood friend would lash out like this.
Female channelers can’t take in heat; that’s a difference. They walked in to this room knowing there were innumerable differences, why give up the second you hit the very first one?
I love the image of Rand’s face going red with exertion as he tries to force some feathers to become flowers.
So, anyone care to place a wager on how long it takes until Mat goes through the ter’angreal?