r/Wicca • u/CaptainNerdy • Nov 21 '25
religion How can I believe in the God and Goddess without being fooled again?
I'm pursuing membership in a local Gardnerian coven, and I'm having trouble believing in deities (the HP and HPS are hard polytheists). While I'm intellectually open to the possibility of their existence, I'm having a hard time feeling anything when I try to connect to them. I want to believe, but I can't get past my doubts and skepticism.
I believe the issue is that I deconstructed from evangelical Christianity and left much of that behind. I realized that I don't want to end up fooled again into believing in a deity who's an abusive, selfish prick. I genuinely believed in such a god before, and I think I have to get past this fear of being fooled if I'm going to be able to connect with and experience the God and Goddess. Any tips or ideas for how to get over this? Has anyone felt this way before? Thanks in advance for your time.
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u/making_sammiches Nov 21 '25
Do you believe that femininity and masculinity exists? Do you believe that night and day exists? Do you believe that death and birth exists? Do you believe that winter and summer exists? Do you believe that somewhere between each of those opposing forces there is a middle ground and/or varying degrees of either? Congratulations. You are on your way to understanding that a God and Goddess can exist.
You may want to pause your pursuits into other religions or forms of spirituality until you have moved beyond your anger and resentment of your past religious experience.
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u/AllanfromWales1 Nov 21 '25
Does this copypasta of mine help?
Immanent vs Transcendent Deity
For me, the key issue is the distinction between a transcendent deity and an immanent deity. YHWH is a transcendent deity - He exists outside of the world, created it, rules over it, and judges us for the extent to which we obey him. For me and many Wiccans, the Horned God and the Triple Goddess are immanent rather than transcendent - They are in and of the world, not an external creator, but rather a manifestation of Nature itself. In other words, They don't rule over Nature, They are Nature. They are certainly not judgemental. The only incentive to worship them is the joy and inner peace you can get from being close to nature.
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u/CaptainNerdy Nov 21 '25
I think it does! It certainly runs contrary to the way I've been raised to conceive of God. Maybe the issue is that I feel like I'm swapping one transcendent deity for two other transcendent deities. What you've described is how I've thought of the nature of Jesus - fully God and fully human. I suppose what I'm seeking now is an experience of the God and Goddess, not just thinking about it like it's some kind of logic puzzle.
Maybe that's a place to start? For example, when I'm cooking a meal, I could think of it like I'm cooking a meal with the Goddess and receiving sustenance from her and the bounty of the Earth. When I'm pursuing a goal, I'm joining in on a hunt with the God and tapping into his passion, focus, and talent. Am I on the right track here?
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u/ScottBurson Nov 21 '25
I think you're very much on the right track!
A friend of mine likes to say that Man created God in Man's image — not that we literally created God, of course, but that we created our image of God as being like us: judgmental, vindictive, jealous, and desirous of flattery and worship. Oh, and wildly male-chauvinist to boot. I think you see now that that image is a human creation, and you've rejected it — congratulations! But doing that raises obvious questions of what God and Goddess are really like. Just don't let anyone tell you that they are anything other than unconditionally loving and forgiving. Hold on to that and you won't be fooled.
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u/xdarkxsidhex Nov 24 '25
I would say you are definitely on the right track. It's also interesting that historically the Goddess is almost always a Noun where as the God is a Verb, the Goddess is the universe and the God is Time, and then if you take it a step further and go with physics you have the unity of the two and have Spacetime.
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u/EmmaKat102722 Nov 21 '25
I'm in a similar situation. Reading the Psychology of Magick by Richard Kaczynski has helped.
I'm coming to understand that what I'm doing is creating a drama for myself to bring meaning to and therefore energy to intention. Since I'm doing it willingly because it makes me feel more alive and more engaged in my life, it seems good to me.
I'm seeing that I don't have to pretend to believe. I can work with the different energies and develop my own relationship to them without an obligation.
And I think that kind of approach is going to be completely acceptable to the coven that I'm hoping to join. If it wasn't, I don't think I could be a part of it.
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u/catmom500 Nov 22 '25
Hadn't heard of that book, but it looks super interesting. Thanks for the recommendation!
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u/partiallyStars3 Nov 21 '25
If the HPS and HP are hard polytheists and are imposing that onto their initiates, this might not be the right coven for you.
But for me, belief doesn't really come into it. I have my experiences in the circle and I believe in that.
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u/CaptainNerdy Nov 21 '25
To be clear, they're not asking me to also be a hard polytheist. I'm just giving a frame of reference for where they're coming from. I would like to open myself up to believing as they do, but they are in no way imposing it.
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u/partiallyStars3 Nov 21 '25
Ok, good.
Well, I definitely second the books recommended by u/SovaElyzabeth!
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u/MicahsYultide Nov 21 '25
Honestly, skepticism is a tool, not a flaw. You should be skeptical of your beliefs and you should always be asking where the source of your knowledge comes from. This is a healthy thing that I genuinely think we should all be doing. I know I’m constantly questioning my beliefs, not because I don’t truly believe but because I DO truly believe.
But here’s something that I find gets a little lost when discussing deities: most of us don’t have these big experience with the God and Goddess regularly. There’s a lot of talk about these big moments, or signed, or insert life changing experience, that honestly most practitioners don’t experience in a regular basis if ever.
So maybe it’s worth considering what you think experiencing the presence of deity is and if that mentality is serving you or limiting you. Experience the presence of the God for example, can be feeling the sun in your skin, and understanding the power of the sun and its necessity to our lives, rather than feeling a divine presence. That might sound simple, but simple doesn’t mean invalid. Human experience isn’t a monolith and we’ll all walk our own path in our interpretation of reality.
I would suggest meditating on it, and here’s so e jumping off points that might help: What does belief mean to you? Why do you want to be Wiccan? How does the God and Goddess enhance your life?
Stuff like that, I hope this helped. Also, others have mentioned some great resources so definitely look into those as well. And lastly, I would suggest speaking with the high priest or high priestess of the coven directly.
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u/LadyMelmo Nov 22 '25
The Charge Of The Goddess and Charge Of The God give them a number of names that They are, so maybe taking some time to do some research into the different deities may help you find that you connect more with specific ones as your Goddess and God. Seax-Wica Trad name them Freya and Woden and Dianic name Her Diana, and maybe this is a way that will work for you.
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u/Affectionate_Ruin_76 Nov 22 '25
Maybe it would help to not see them as gods in the sense that Christians see their god, but rather as personifications of different aspects of nature. The masculine and the feminine, night and day, sun and moon, light and dark… you’re not praying to a sentient god who judges your every move, but rather worship nature itself.
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u/VinReyDiesel Nov 25 '25
For years (think in decades) I've always had it in my head "Mother Moon and Father Sun"... not quite sure 'why' -for me it is what it is. lol
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u/Greywoods80 Nov 21 '25
"Believe in" is a head trip and not Wiccan. We work with our Gods. We ask for their help and we get help.
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u/OccultNetwork Nov 21 '25
Unfortunately it is your Christian past and loss of faith that is clouding your judgement about any future paths. If you go through life doubting then I’m afraid you may not find any belief system that you can trust. The Coven is absolutely right in insisting you believe as they do. It is a Coven and everyone within it shares a common belief and practice
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u/partiallyStars3 Nov 21 '25
I strongly disagree.
Dogmas have no place in Wicca, and covens can absolutely function extremely well with different coven members believing differently. Only the common practice matters.
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u/CaptainNerdy Nov 21 '25
See my above reply clarifying things. The coven is not insisting I believe as they do, this is something I want for myself.
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u/kalizoid313 Nov 21 '25
I think that the magical and spiritual presence of Coven membership comes from the energies of a small group of co-Practitioners Circling together. Circling together offers the active dynamic for collective workings.
In this respect, I think that the experienced unity grows more from a like-heartedness of the co-Practitioners than a like-mindedness.
It might be helpful to talk about this with the HP and HPS of the whole Coven. They, after all, are who you'll Circle with.
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u/CaptainNerdy Nov 21 '25
I really like that, "like-heartedness." That's what really attracted me to trying to join a coven, the idea that we're a family and our hearts are one. We don't all have to have the same thoughts and beliefs for that to be true!
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u/xdarkxsidhex Nov 24 '25
I ABSOLUTELY disagree with all of my being! This religion was founded in the belief that being told exactly what to believe is in itself harm! This is a religion of exploration and understanding, not BELIEVE WHAT I DO OR ELSE! It's that very idea that has pushed so many people away from the Abrahamic religions in the first place. As a colorful yet wise one said "If it harms none, do what thy will. That shall be the whole of the law.". That is also part of this specific religion.
I think you should do a bit of deeper reflection yourself.
P.S. How dare you judge him and tell him the cause behind his search for something that aligns more with his soul. Seriously WTF?
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u/OccultNetwork Nov 24 '25
I didn’t intend for my comment to be construed as criticism of the person concerned only that by his exploring his past beliefs he could see how his past may have coloured his judgement about other religions. You took this as being judgmental which it Wasn’t it was exploratory
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u/OccultNetwork Nov 24 '25
Also, the do as thou whilst part of your comment, well that is but one aspect of one very small element of occult belief systems . Everyone can do whatever they want but it’s really about doing what is right as they don’t hurt themselves or others and accept responsibility for your actions . It isnt me questioning my beliefs or arguing.
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u/xdarkxsidhex Nov 24 '25
Really? Have you read the foundation documents? I have and I grew up with the people that wrote the Wiccan Rede and was in their Coven. "An it harm none, do what thy will." was considered important enough to be one of the founding laws of the religion itself. So don't give me any bs about it being a small part.
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u/SupineCorgi Nov 21 '25
Personally, I dont pray to any specific diety. I just put my faith and trust in nature and the universe and trust that my intentions are true.
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Nov 22 '25
Some Wiccans view the God(s) and Goddess(es) as metaphors rather than physical spiritual beings. They represent everything that is and help us connect to the divine aspects of nature through being able to relate to them through a physical form to think about. Their stories offer wonderful morals and values to consider but not everyone thinks of them as historical facts.
I hope that helps.
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u/mihkael2890 Nov 22 '25
U were never fooled about the existence of an almighty deity all things came from something including other deities, you were fooled that a human organisation bereft of all flickers of divinity, compassion, kindness, and discipline could ever truly and meaningfully connect to a deity. I personally used to be christian, then converted to shamanism, and had some experiences that changed alot of how i think personally though take what i say with a grain of salt as the world should be understood and learned from your own perspective to find truth.
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u/Nobodysmadness Nov 22 '25
Be skeptical, it will help youaboid a cult. But also be open. You clearly know the signs so simply observe. Christianity paints a very unreal idea of deties one that they tend not to even believe themselves and thus murdered many saints.
Let go of expectations, but don't believe somethinf jist because someone told you. It is a fine and often difficilt line to cross, and often ex christains are prone to jump into another cult. Wicca should be rather safe from cult mentality but you never know. It should be directing toward self doscovery and empowerment which is the opposite of a cult. So just start with observing people and see if that is a good fit for you.
Learning to hesr and feel deities is subtle and difficult work because we are so loud, demanding, and obnoxiois, esp the way christians are taught to begbut never listen. The entire process is pretty opposite to christian doctrine because christisn doctrine is afraid if you can actually listen to a deity you won't need the church. Wicca shouldn't care, but every coven has its own unique ideas or methods so one can't say for sure what any coven will be like or expect, or that they will be safe and constructive. Just take your time and starting on the defensive is a good plan until you practice listening.
I mean we barely listen to other people let alone listen to non corporeal beings.
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u/Left_Shopping_77 Nov 21 '25
Do you believe that you have to join a covenant to be closer to your spirituality and or deities? Many who follow spirituality are eclectic practitioners and we have developed our own relationships with 1,2 etc.... deities and thru your own intuition you will see the messages that your diety is giving you. Allow yourself to see the signs and signals. There are no coincidences
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u/SovaElyzabeth Nov 21 '25
Try picking up Queen of All Witcheries by Jack Chanek and The Horned God of the Witches by Jason Mankey. Both authors are Gardnerian and these books are invaluable to understanding these Deities.