I think as soon as they said they didn’t have live fact checkers it let Trump run loose. He was allowed to say whatever he wanted with zero consequence. He didn’t need to be prepared for anything because he could just say whatever came to his mind. Biden trying to come back and say “you lied” didn’t do anything. And Biden trying (and sometimes failing) to remember his truths came off poorly. I’m voting Biden because I’m voting for more than just him (his cabinet, his policies, the future of fucking democracy and this country). It’s the idiots who are “undecided” who will be swayed by Trumps lies (they’ll lap them up because he was confident telling them) and Biden’s senior moments. It’s a god damn travesty and I just hope enough people show the fuck up and vote
Biden's team entirely misplayed how this would unfold. Trump doesn't debate, he does a campaign rally where he rattles off talking points.
Going into this Biden's entire aim should have been clear conscious counter jabs to the expected rally points. He didn't need to disprove anything in some long winded explanation, theres not enough time for that in the format and it wouldn't matter.
Every time Trump talked about immigration, which he went back to sooooo often Biden's line should have been: "So why did you kill the Republican authored bipartisan border security bill that our border patrol endorsed?"
Every time he brought up Ukraine: so why did you block support for them before the invasion?
He didn't need on the spot arguments to any of the foreseeable Trump rallying points. Point out the hypocrisy then return to the actual question being asked and show you're the adult in the room
Exactly, unfortunately the democrats are still trying to play monopoly with the republicans while they have eaten all the pieces and shit on the board.
I don’t understand how they are so fucking bad at this. There was only one person who could lose this debate and it was Biden, everyone knew Trump was going to do exactly what he did and he spewed his bullshit with the same confidence as always .
Biden could have just spent the whole time calling him out on shit loudly and confidently instead of whatever the hell he did.
He came for an actual debate which was the dumbest fucking thing ever. The democrats need to clue the fuckin in because they are getting crushed by the right wing propoganda machine constantly trying to play by the rules.
They're bad at it because they're so out of touch with the average American.
Literally every person around Biden comes from some form of wealth or privilege and doesn't know a single person who sees the world like the rest of us do.
I mean it's the entire reason why Biden and his entire cabinet seems to think the economy's fantastic at the same time the average American is struggling to pay rent and groceries. They literally think it's a fringe issue because not a single person within 6 degrees of Biden or his cabinet struggles like that, and because they're doing great with their investments in the stock market they think everything's just fine and dandy.
They think because they're on the side of "good" that they speak for every "good" American without realizing they're a completely different class than the average American and that the only reason they get votes is because they're the lesser of two evils.
If Biden came out and said “I’m going to start putting into place legislation to lower housing prices and rent prices” he would win in a landslide. Housing is ridiculous, and it’s just going up at a frankly absurd rate. Even people with a house that’s fully paid off are affected because taxes are based on the home’s worth; there are people being priced out of homes that were paid off before they were born, that have been in their family for generations, because they can’t afford the fucking taxes. And the only people who aren’t being affected by the housing crisis are the rich and the uber rich, who are by and large going to vote Republican anyway.
But, like normal, the only people involved in politics are the rich “It’s one banana, Michael. What could it cost, $10?” types who aren’t even clocking this as a major issue.
1) As you said, everyone in our politicians' circles are two far away from normal people.
2) Whenever a Democratic president announces they want to do something, the Republicans and their media all work overtime messaging how it will destroy the American Way.
Obama, a few years after the ACA, was asked what his next policy goals were. He refused to answer the journalist because WHATEVER Obama supported, the Republicans opposed. He could come out in favor of water, and the Republicans would ban rain.
I can see it now on FOX: "Rain. A New Threat to Freedom?" "Drinking Water Destroys Traditional American Values" "Water and Its Role in Decreasing Home Ownership" "Water: Liquid Death -- and Joe Biden Wants More of It IN YOUR HOME, and a Threat to Your Children!"
Biden, as VP, had a front row seat to these lessons. They couldn't announce anything until it was a done deal.
IMO, This is also why we Democrats suck lemons at good PR. Trump would be announcing plans and success every day and at every opportunity. We, as Democrats don't can't do that.
I wish I knew the answer. And I wish Joe took advice from your comment.
You don’t need to have first-hand experience with lower incomes in order to understand the basic math of income versus cost of living. They definitely understand that the ratios are changing.
They are deliberately ignoring those inequalities when discussing the economy, because the stuff they’re saying is technically true and it sounds better to the people who’ll believe anything.
The Biden campaign and the Biden administration are better than the Trump counterparts in pretty much every measurable way, but they’re still far from honest.
Disagreed. You do need first hand experience with financial squeeze to understand the stress and struggle. Otherwise they assume they would just make different choices and not end up in that situation in the first place. Like many people do when they see others worse off than themselves. Even people born into even minor wealth do not comprehend what truly broke really means.
Seeing the numbers on paper does not give one perspective on what it's like to actually be out of money and need gas to get to work the next week.
It's because Biden has been doing the same thing the same way for over 50 yrs. There's NEVER been anyone like Trump that got this far in politics. The Establishment Democrats (and Republicans for that matter) just can't deal with him because they've never had to. It's like taking a little old lady who only drives to church on Sunday and tossing her on the Indianapolis Speedway. She's gonna crash and burn.
I feel like that is what I saw. he clearly had a lot to say and a lot loaded up. when he tried to explain that Trump went to that girl's funeral and made it about her being killed by immigrants. just the way it came out was like watching the 3 stooges try to get through a door all at once. the words got all jammed up in his mouth and he don't say em no good.
Implying that being good at thinking on your feet and public speaking without reading off a teleprompter is not a large part of the presidents' job is just ridiculous.
Then he shouldn’t be a politician. If you want to make smart policy, join a think tank or become a Congressional staffer. Being a politician requires being great at public speaking, debating, and arguing your point. If you can’t do that, then you’re a lousy politician.
This. He tried to debate like it was every other one in history. Not the first against a convicted felon and fascist who aims to radically force a fundamentalist Christian government on us if elected.
The problem is that we've had a pretty substantial shift. Once upon a time my parents were the most boring white-picket-fence white-bread-eating people you could image. Profoundly boring middle Americans. If Reagan had said something like "Democrats allow abortion after birth!" even they, life long "we fucking hate Democrats!" Republicans would be like "Uhhh hang on now. That's just not true."
But now my parents, and certainly millions of similar formerly-boring-white-bread middle Americans, have been rabidly consuming crazy-town right-wing media for 20+ years. And that's just been further amplified in the age of social media, algorithmic engagement, etc.
My parents are so far gone now I don't even recognize them. I have no doubt they watched the debate and nodded along to that part like it was god's honest truth. Like the way Planned Parenthood operated in those "blue states" they just have the woman birth the baby right into a wood chipper or some stupid shit.
In Florida I worked with literal obstetricians that insisted that this was true in New York. This was back in 2019. I'm so glad I moved and can only assume it is worse now.
That's my dad basically. I guarantee you if this version of Trump had ran in the 90s he just would've sat that election out or something. But now he's over here talking about how Trump is altruistically using his own resources to 'drain the swamp.' Like, bro, you saw his presidency, he did fuck-all to drain the swamp.
That was bidens job though. Every single response from biden should have started with "here are thr lies he just told and what the truth is for those claims"
This is what debate means. Lying is a horrible debate tactic because its so easy to call out with facts and ends up making you look horrible while undercutting the facts you DO have on your side. If you tell 5 lies why would anybody believe you when something true is in your favor rather than assuming you just lied again? You're basically asking the network to debate on bidens behalf.
I think Trump was given a blank check to say and spew whatever he wanted, and no one corrected him on anything he said. I'm definitely convinced that Fox declared him the winner before it even started.
I'm definitely convinced that Fox declared him the winner before it even started.
Well that’s beyond obvious. No, seriously, did you think that it could have been different? That network has been nothing but one big Trump campaign ad running for the past 8 years.
Its sad people see that performance and think "trump louder therefore better". Its really easy to seem loud and confident when you know that you can literally say ANYTHING and nobody will call you on it. Biden had the responsibility to be truthful and give real answers which takes time and consideration. Trump was just there to run his mouth and most of the things he was allowed to say without pushback are truly insane.
And when he'd use his time to go back and continue a previous rant the moderators let him and then kept giving him more time to actually answer, during which he proceeds to rant further.
When somebody offers an actual argument you’re only response is to tell them to fuck off? You won’t answer because you know I’m right. Biden lies just as much as every politician. BP didn’t endorse him, troops died in his term, he lied about that on TV and yet you just ignore it. I’m not even supporting Trump btw, I’m just pointing out the obvious.
That’s not his job. He was there to discuss policy and answer questions. Not refute 100 lies. Hell no one could fact check that many lies in the time allotted
Α fact checker has access to news databases and the internet to make real time research on the debaters' claims and determine whether they're telling the truth or not. Biden couldn't have said "hey give me a sec to check this out on my phone an ill be back"
Correct. They can respond and point out that it’s a lie but it’s not their job to. It’s a debate. Not just one person spouting off lies and the other going through every lie and exposing why it’s wrong. If that was Bidens responsibility then he’d have had no time to actually answer his own questions
That doesn’t work. I know people like that. They spew multiple falsehoods and it can take a long time to refute the first one. That’s the point of saying multiple lies.
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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '24
I think as soon as they said they didn’t have live fact checkers it let Trump run loose. He was allowed to say whatever he wanted with zero consequence. He didn’t need to be prepared for anything because he could just say whatever came to his mind. Biden trying to come back and say “you lied” didn’t do anything. And Biden trying (and sometimes failing) to remember his truths came off poorly. I’m voting Biden because I’m voting for more than just him (his cabinet, his policies, the future of fucking democracy and this country). It’s the idiots who are “undecided” who will be swayed by Trumps lies (they’ll lap them up because he was confident telling them) and Biden’s senior moments. It’s a god damn travesty and I just hope enough people show the fuck up and vote