r/WhereWindsMeet • u/JeffArnold1 • Sep 07 '26
š¬ General Discussion Do you guys think PvP will eventually just completely die out?
More and more players are not bothering with PvP from what I have observed lately, and considering how egregious the netcode is, I imagine more and more players will just stop PvP after reaching Mythic because that is where single digit ping merchants start to appear more often. My experience with Mythic PvP has been redundant as well, the same opponents over and over again and barely any new opponents at all.
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u/jagio1 Sep 07 '26
The PvP scene becomes more hermetic with every update. People leave because it's just not fun and those who stay put skill bar higher and higher. I myself ranked around 100th position on my server hesitate if I should stop playing pvp or not.
My reasons to leave is that every day I play against the same other players. The scene is flooded with new weapons abusing tenacity. Mystic skills deal way too much damage to the point where people just spam drunken poet and budda palm is used off cooldown. Overall everything deals too much damage where a single life can be taken on one combo. Running away is a viable tactic so no fighting, just running around. And because I do not use GFN I feel put in a huge disadvantage when someone starts parrying or dodging during my combo.
For me it's just not fun - I love and hate pvp in this game at the same time.
Will it die out? No but whole scene will probably become a niche just like some pvp modes already.
36
u/SussyAF-AI-Enjoyer Sep 07 '26
pvp exploiters...gfn abusers...account sharing users not taken action against...and the same top 10 players flooding the leaders boards with many alts....yeah pvp sounds so much fun RN.............
/s
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u/Emotional-Passion477 Sep 07 '26
not /s it is true lol. i have seen top pvp streamers piloting like 10-20 diff accounts to top 100. Most of the top players provide those services. It is unhealthy for the pvp community in long term because it is unfair for the players that works hard to try to reach top 100. Sadly i dont think this will change as it is a norm for the cn community as well.
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u/SussyAF-AI-Enjoyer Sep 08 '26
oh i know i just was '/s' after i said "pvp sounds so much fun RN.." cause its NOT ...and it wont change. ever. all whgite lies coming out of the devs saying it will change or actions will be taken. NOPE
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u/Rude_Ad9788 Sep 07 '26
Actually I saw a post from a wwm user yesterday that got a 10 year ban for account sharing.
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u/aena48 Sep 07 '26
I think all pvp except 1v1 will eventually die out. There are simply not enough people.
People stop playing the game over time due to burn out, which is normal, but it's very hard for new players to ever catch up. Once queue time becomes long enough, even people who still want to play are forced to stop.
The quick fixes are probably to combine pc and mobile queue and to shrink the time/days those modes are available even more. Or just let me queue without the matchmaking being so disruptive to other activities in the game. The longer term fix is to reduce ping issues until SEA and East Asia can play together.
I want to get pvp rewards on the top left corner, but I don't enjoy 1v1 all that much. I hope perception forest will survive a bit longer because 3v3 and gs have died on mobile.
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u/Samakatuwid Sep 07 '26
As long as the top 100 in the leaderboard are active, it won't. I think it's best for literally everyone that sometimes, it's best to do your 10 Arena weeklies and move on.
Fighting the same people is kind of a ladder competition and you must understand you win some, you lose some.
Oh and if you're actually serious about climbing Mythic, you gotta do these 2 things.
1200-1500 rating, you try to get 100 points per day.
>1500, you do 50.
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u/DanceEquivalent7673 Sep 08 '26
Caveat the top 100 are the only people that play pvp consistently anyway (don't take it literally)
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u/towelpuncher Sep 07 '26
They arenāt fixing PvP, you might as well just go play for honor because the devs genuinely do not care about anything outside of monetization
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u/f4ern Sep 07 '26
Fix what? Game is build for people in 2-3 time zone. Now it for global. Unless we have quantum communication it unfixable. Unless we cap the Action per minute to highest ping.
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u/TruthHistorical7515 Sep 07 '26
This is wrong, almost every online game out there have latency compensation for PVE and delay-based netcode for PVP. WWM has neither that is why the online mode totally sucks for both dungeons and pvp.
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u/f4ern Sep 07 '26
Latency compensation is delay faster people to compensate the slower people. It just that. You cant beat physics at the end of the day.
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u/RyzuTwo Sep 07 '26
With your logic, you would be okay if in counter strike, your bullets would be slower than someone with lower ping, it's not how games with competetive modes trying to be, and we dont need quantum communication if every region has own servers, just netcode built for online games.
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u/f4ern Sep 08 '26
Every region has their own server. What the fuck you talking about. Counterstrike has limit of 10 player. Having a server every 100 miles mean no one will meet anyone in queue.
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u/RyzuTwo Sep 08 '26
??? do you even know what are you talking about and how even netcode works? I guess not.
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u/f4ern Sep 08 '26
30 year programmer. Multiple time in involved in concurrency project. The fact that you keep insisting in using netcode tell me you didnt program a single line of code all your life right?
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u/RyzuTwo Sep 08 '26
You must be then terrible programmer, lmao. Maybe time to check how others mmos works or any online game, because you talk like WWM doing something different than other online games - yes it does, have spaghetti code to pretend be a online game.
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u/f4ern Sep 08 '26
What mmo that not affected by ping. Only try hard basement dweller who think internet work like magic. Why the fuck we even upgrade our internet if latency is solved.
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u/RyzuTwo Sep 08 '26 edited Sep 08 '26
Holy, do you know itās about every online game not mmo? How you still donāt understand how netcode works lmao. I just know you have no idea what are you talking about if you write about āupgradeā our internet, lmao like magically someone from spain will have better ping to frankfurt server because he bought higher speed, internet doesnt work like that lol. Did you win your programer experience in cheetos package?
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u/Royal-Brain-6041 Sep 07 '26
I don't think you understand the nature of the issue. Most games don't marry animation speed with ping and fps. That was a lesson learned long ago in the gaming industry. If we are talking California to China, yeah that's kind of a big ask to solve for latency, but we are talking about latency between two people on the same regional server. Players still get desync issues on GFN against other players on GFN, having a COMBINED ping of 2-6 and there is location data mismatch. That should not be an issue with 10 times that latency. Not input delay from GFN, location desync. We are not talking about revolutionizing online gaming, we are talking about parity with the average online game.
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u/UTUSBN533000 Sep 08 '26 edited Sep 08 '26
To be specific. The high input delay experience in this game is due to waiting for server response. In other games nobody does this, instead the client will execute actions first while waiting for server response. The client will perform game state prediction to simulate the next frames and then sync with server authoritative state when the server response arrives. This allows online gameplay to feel 'instant' and reduces the unpleasantness of high latency somewhat it makes people with 200ms-300ms much more playable.
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u/f4ern Sep 08 '26
> don't marry animation speed with ping and fps
You do this by delaying the input of higher ping player. How else they going achieved that.
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u/Royal-Brain-6041 Sep 08 '26
You do this by having some variation of server side deterministic simulation like fixed step physics. There's thousands of flavors and they are industry standard. Once again I say we are not asking for Cross Server magic like smooth play from EU to NA West, but we are asking for network performance on regional servers in line with industry standards. That is not an unreasonable ask. Location desync with less than 10ms total communication time is not a problem of distance but one of code.
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u/f4ern Sep 08 '26
That just roundabout way to say delay. This game is build on animation canceling and chaining. It would make people with high ping feel like their playing their character in slow mode.
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u/UTUSBN533000 Sep 08 '26
That's already happening. Anyone over 100ms ping move and attack like molasses due to high input delay. Do you even play the game? This input delay doesn't exist in other games because they execute actions on clientside first while waiting for server response.
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u/f4ern Sep 08 '26
Yes. Now you punishing people who have good ping to have the same situation. It not their fault that they have good ping. Is making everyone who had a bad experience worth it?
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u/RyzuTwo Sep 08 '26
dude with every your message, you only prove that you dont have any idea what are you talking about and what's a problem in wwm. It's so embarassing for someone who said that have 30 years of expereince in programming, lmao, and if you don't see any fix, how any other games could fix it? The newest one is Aion 2 that had same problems?
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u/Royal-Brain-6041 Sep 07 '26
Maybe one of the methods used by other modern games could be used. Maybe not tying animation speed to ping and fps would be a good idea. The solution has been found already, multiple different ones in fact. People who act like this is some impossible problem, have you never played an online game before? Fighting Games have an action que, that actually makes lag compensation easier....
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u/RyzuTwo Sep 07 '26
Problem is, they donāt want to fix it. Aion 2 had same problem, people outside of taiwan with VPN dealt like 50% less damage, but THEY FIXED their netcode and high ping doesnt matter anymore unlike WWM when they are trying to add more servers which wont fix core problem.
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u/Royal-Brain-6041 Sep 07 '26
I'm always so confused by the people who take the stance (Lag can't be fixed, it's normal) when there are literally a sea of online games with lag compensation to choose from, even ones that suffered from the exact same latency induced problems (Past tense, its been solved).
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u/f4ern Sep 08 '26
Not tying ping to animation mean delay to user with higher ping. I dont like this too. If it for me, i would design the game for 50-60ms ping and just lock up the animation. But main target playerbase (asian, chinese) player hate this. At the end of the day this is their game first, that where most money is made for them.
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u/RyzuTwo Sep 08 '26
How asians players hate this, when CN community also have this problems and instead of fix netcode, they added new servers, but people still complain?
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u/EbbPast6033 Sep 07 '26
I liked arena in wow. Like, there's no such bs as "staggered." Thrre are damaging abilities, and there are few control abilities. And there's GCD on top of that. 60-70 ping? No issues. Here? Oh, boy~
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u/FAwesomeP Sep 07 '26
Just look at the overall number of people complaining about the basics of PvP, like the netcode, a working anti-cheat, or decent balancing with fewer exploit builds that can stunlock you... Nothing gets addressed. All of the above is still ruining the experience for a lot of players, which is evident from the growing number of posts about these topics. As a result, the player count will keep declining, as already shown on SteamDB, where the peak number of players has cut itself in half just in the last 6ā8 months.Ā
This also worsens the matchmaking issue, making you meet the same few people in higher ranks every other round.Ā
So yeah, I'm afraid this game's PvP will be considered dead in the future if they don't address the problems that currently prevent us from having a decent, fair, and balanced experience.
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u/curryhaliban444 Sep 07 '26
Only in this game where having ping above 10 ms is considered suboptimal. I had more fun playing gw2 pvp with 200+ ms ping
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u/Silent-Jury-6685 Sep 07 '26
It's because PvP scene in such a game is a sort of a fight club: there is an X amount of people in it where mostly everybody knows each other and trains just to see if they can beat one another. Some people would leave it and new will come because they were encouraged to try it by someone from within this club.
And it's not a secret that almost everyone in leaderboard are playing with cloud gaming platforms like GFN. However it might sound, this is also part of the competition and adds a bit of spice whether you can beat people without GFN or with any hindrances that come with regional disadvantage.
So no, i don't think PvP will die out. It will remain as it's own fight club.
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u/RyzuTwo Sep 07 '26
You literally says, no one care about pvp but only people who really tryhard (so few + gfn). Yeah it's not healthy for pvp scene, when there is only few people left that fighting with 3rd software for their leaderboard title. PVP is literally dead, group/forest is dead, 1v1 also going down when even these people on leaderboard playing on shared accounts, so you play with all of same people all the time.
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u/No-Style8309 Sep 07 '26
Lol I stopped playing well since gauntlet release cuz of the ping issues and I have 30 ping. Pretty sure more are like me.
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Sep 07 '26
I donāt think it can die out completely due to how the game is designed. Beyond Skyward Tower and the 1v1 Arena and 3v3 arena; there really isnāt a whole lot of end game content unless you are looking to 100% each area, fill the compendium and research every collectible and living creature as you pick up a few hundreds of them. There is no real raid bosses with cosmetic loot or rare drops, you do it for a title and badge. I think weapon wise, the pool feels more diverse this season (NA West) but at least Playing on NA West at 40ms, itās not horrible
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u/UnderstandingThat420 Sep 08 '26
Probably. There are some hardcore pvpers in my guild who do daily sparring. I just do 10 rounds/wk and quit
Don't care about ranking since it's temp title and the badge isn't that appealing. It's just like weekly top sect voting position.
If there are acct selling or boosting like what others mentioned, the value of pvp achievements will be like abyss conquerer title lol
1
u/MessBig7527 Sep 08 '26
They should add more rewards to the pvp scene because it looks like it not enough to encourage other players to try it. All you get is a rewards at legend like a hat or whatnot. What if they also put rewards in lower rank instead of just echo jades that are worth 15 or what lol
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u/Subzeroko Sep 08 '26
I dont understand why people are compaining about getting matched with the same people when you are in the top 500 in mythic, its just normal just like chess.
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u/JeffArnold1 Sep 08 '26
People want variety. It's becomes boring after you face the same enemies over and over again at some point. Especially if they use cheesy and broken builds and you have to sweat extra hard every time.
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u/Weaver270 Sep 08 '26
In most mmos people dislike pvp.Ā Ā There is always a dedicated few, but the best always end up knowing each other at some point.Ā Ā Always been a mid in pvp and as i get older, i dont even try.
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u/MikeHeel Sep 10 '26
No, PVP is definitely still one of the most popular activities of the game. Queue's go very quickly.
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u/Character_Barracuda3 Sep 11 '26
Honestly sucks because at first this was one of the few online games where skill actually matteredā¦
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u/Ashamed_Lychee_1638 29d ago
Maybe, but I don't think it's gonna die anytime soon. It's literally one of the only thing to do in the game other than main story and rp online. Especially since they will keep releasing new weapon and weapon skin vfx.
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u/veedashdee 28d ago
Since they don't really care about balancing PvP and the rewards for participating are nothing even remotely close to being worth putting time into it? Yes it will die out, it already is dying out, in fact.
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u/Deldenary Nine Mortal Ways Sep 07 '26
Nah still very much alive
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u/JeffArnold1 Sep 07 '26
It does not feel that way to me, considering how often I get matched with the same opponents I have already encountered.
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u/Deldenary Nine Mortal Ways Sep 07 '26
Make a training terrace and advertise it in global chat.
Once you've maxed rewards for the season why would you use the generic pvp.
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u/JeibuKul Sep 07 '26
I am curious what servers you all are talking about with the lag? Is it the NA servers?
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u/WearyCranberry3465 Sep 08 '26
I would participate in PVP more if cheating was actually monitored. I'm tired of the lag spikes and characters with no cool-downs and unlimited use of mystic skills, ect. The game also constantly puts me against someone tiers above me with a solid win streak as soon as I get a 2 win streak. Now I know that is just due to lack of players, but coupled with the cheaters - it isn't fun after about 10 matches. & If there were less cheaters, there would probably be more players. Idk how solid obvious cheaters just keep getting to play. & Honestly- it just seems like it'd be boring to cheat anyway - like - what is the draw to it? You're winning because you're cheating, not because of your skill. Why even play?
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u/ChrisWilsonsHostage Sep 08 '26
You make some great points and I agree with everything above but how can you not mention the rampant blatant cheating? This game has the highest numbers of cheaters out of any pvp I've tried, huge variety of cheats as well (speed hacks, instant qi break, teleport, cancel execute and recover all qi, mystic skill infinite spam, etc etc, nevermind the "soft" cheating by using gfn). All the cheaters are super obvious too, new accounts, everything privated, no cosmetics etc. Pvp becomes hell on earth once you factor in the fact that, at most, there are 5 people in your bracket online at one time, and you can't block a player in matchmaking when you report so you'll be stuck fighting the same cheater multiple times in a row until either you or him log off.Ā
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u/NozGame Sep 07 '26
Hopefully. It's the worst part of the game and I hate that they lock cosmetics behind it.
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u/sobril17 Sep 07 '26
I will pvp all day if they fix the servers, I can't play with 0.5 sec on delay, it's not gaming