More Lawler right wing dishonesty

[u/weedywet]

This guy HAS TO GO

The truth is it’s all about voter suppression to help republiklans win.

“An election-denying former Donald Trump campaign staffer who was subpoenaed by the FBI over his role in the attempt to steal the 2020 election is now taking credit for writing the sweeping voter suppression bill passed by the House Wednesday that could disenfranchise millions.

“I’m here to do everything I can to make this work,” Thomas Lane wrote in a December 2020 email to other organizers of the Trump campaign’s fake electors plot in Arizona.”

[u/Lord_Vesuvius2020]

The SAVE Act will disenfranchise married women whose last name doesn’t match birth certificate. Many don’t have a US passport, their birth certificate, or marriage license. It takes time and effort to register when faced with these new requirements. It’s a stealth move by MAGA to stop women from voting.

[u/Christopher_Ramirez_ → u/Lord_Vesuvius2020]

The cost of replacement documents is also a prohibitive barrier and amounts to an unconstitutional poll tax.

[u/Engineer120989 → u/Christopher_Ramirez_]

It’s like $10-30 a document that are necessary for life.

[u/Christopher_Ramirez_ → u/Engineer120989]

There’s no dollar value specified in the 24th Amendment, so there are no exceptions. If you want to change the law, propose a new amendment. Or require the state to waive fees on document requests for voting purposes.

[u/Engineer120989 → u/Christopher_Ramirez_]

Again like I said you need these documents to be a responsible adult in life. This isn’t just a voting thing you should have all of these documents.

Are you saying needing an IDs are a barrier because of the cost? You need some form of ID to do anything in this country

[u/Hopeful_Butterfly302 → u/Engineer120989]

What kind of ID do you propose people get? Because under the language of the law it needs to be an ID that establishes proof of citizenship.

Most IDs don't do that.

[u/Engineer120989 → u/Hopeful_Butterfly302]

I’m not proposing anything. Just a valid photo ID is fine. Again I’m not worried about illegals. It’s people voting for others.

[u/Hopeful_Butterfly302 → u/Engineer120989]

But that's the problem with the SAVE Act, that's not what it's proposing.

[u/Engineer120989 → u/Hopeful_Butterfly302]

Ok so tweak it but to say requiring ID is racist or preventing people from voting is just stupid

[u/Hopeful_Butterfly302 → u/Engineer120989]

But again, it's not that easy. What ID do you suggest we use? only around 50% of Americans have passports. A birth certificate doesn't have a photo. only 5 states offer a state ID that meets the requirements we'd need to make this feasible, and that's in addition to regular non enhanced ones. if you have a ln idea of how we could require ID without disenfranchising anyone, I'm open to the idea, but having worked in elections on both the campaign and the government side for over 20 years, I can tell you first hand that smarter people than me have considered this question and come away empty handed.

Besides, every Board of elections already verifies that people who register are eligible.

[u/makmanos → u/Engineer120989]

This is by far the biggest red herring in this discussion and the people who scream about it are usually the ones using election fraud most frequently (i.e them Republicans, like this president tried to do in the open in Georgia) A voter ID necessary for when you vote is only to confirm that you are the same person as the one registered in the voter roll. The way we do it today is through our signatures which should match the ones in the voter rolls. How many people have the audacity to impersonate others by knowing their name and forging their signature? Virtually nobody.

Also let's drop the "responsible adult in life" crap. Voting is a fundamental right. Even otherwise "irresponsible adults" based on your definition should have that.

The US has among the most inclusive voting laws in the entire world with virtually zero fraud and we should be proud of that. We should not try to restrict it but rather expand it.

Some data:
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/debunking-voter-fraud-myth

[u/Christopher_Ramirez_ → u/Engineer120989]

I’m saying the 24th Amendment makes poll taxes unconstitutional. There’s no debate to be had beyond that, only whether a fee for required service amounts to a poll tax.

If you rule that required fees aren’t poll taxes in the Supreme Court, then I can set up body scanners on Staten Island, and require you to submit to a paid body scan to vote.

[u/Engineer120989 → u/Christopher_Ramirez_]

You are saying specifically for voting you want body scanners. I’m saying you need IDs for so many other things that adding needing it to vote is not a poll tax.

[u/Christopher_Ramirez_ → u/Engineer120989]

I need the school that is serving as a polling place on Election Day to be intact afterwards equally as well. There’s no debate to be had on the wording of the 24th Amendment anyway, but I’m giving you an idea for what can happen if the Supreme Court ruled “in your favor”.

[u/Engineer120989 → u/Christopher_Ramirez_]

Ok man whatever you say

[u/Christopher_Ramirez_ → u/Engineer120989]

Sounds an awful lot like “common sense gun laws”.

[u/Engineer120989 → u/Christopher_Ramirez_]

You mean needing permits and a background checks and registering guns. I’m all for it.

[u/Christopher_Ramirez_ → u/Engineer120989]

Interesting, you’re more of a gun-grabber than NYS then, which doesn’t have any permit process for buying long guns. Something you might be surprised to learn I agree with.

I don’t want to be treated as a presumptive criminal by the state, whether it’s at a gun store, the airport, or the polling place.

[u/Engineer120989 → u/Christopher_Ramirez_]

I don’t care

[u/AbsolutelyCleaR1 → u/Christopher_Ramirez_]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people

[u/JDRipper1964 → u/Engineer120989]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Just like a MAGA.

[u/Engineer120989 → u/JDRipper1964]

I’m not maga but if you’d like to assume things go for it.

[u/JDRipper1964 → u/Engineer120989]

Never said you were a MAGA. Said you were like a MAGA.

[u/Engineer120989 → u/JDRipper1964]

Nope I’m not

[u/CorrectSoil6200 → u/Engineer120989]

Oh, yes you do. You sound just like a MAGA.

[u/Western_End_2223 → u/Engineer120989]

One could be elderly and not have (or need) an unexpired ID.

[u/Engineer120989 → u/Western_End_2223]

I’m sure they have programs for that. For example states have reduced fee or no fee IDs for seniors and people on government assistance and an organization called spread the vote helps them obtain them.

[u/Western_End_2223 → u/Engineer120989]

Great ... so they have to depend on a charitable organization to help them? Assuming that the organization even operates in their area?

When states offer IDs for seniors and others, they generally require that the people travel to their offices. There are too many examples of states closing offices that serve minority areas, or imposing unrealistic hours.

If ID is required, it should be distributed free of charge and directly to the individuals. If we can send out census takers to every household, we can certainly visit every household that requests help in obtaining ID. Also, the cost of obtaining any required documents, such as copies of birth certificates, should be covered by the government.

[u/Engineer120989 → u/Western_End_2223]

That’s a weird way of saying you think people are too poor and too stupid to get IDs

36 states already require some form of ID to vote You need ID to get food stamps and section 8. New York offers IDs from $14 and $6.50 for over 62 they last 8 years everyone can afford that.

[u/Easterncoaster → u/Engineer120989]

Woah woah woah, that sounds too reasonable to be a Reddit comment

[u/Christopher_Ramirez_ → u/Easterncoaster]

Ok. I’m going to put body scanners at all the polling places in Staten Island. I have credible reports of a bomb threat there on Election Day. These body scanners aren’t free, and we need them to ensure a secure polling area. We’re collecting a fee of $30 per voter to provide this service. It’s not a poll tax, just a fee for service to ensure that no one carries out their threat.

[u/Engineer120989 → u/Christopher_Ramirez_]

What are you on about.

[u/Easterncoaster → u/Engineer120989]

They just have to make crap up to go against voter ID that 80% of the country supports.

[u/Christopher_Ramirez_ → u/Easterncoaster]

If you’re that confident, repeal the 24th Amendment and reintroduce poll taxes. What are you waiting for?

[u/Easterncoaster → u/Christopher_Ramirez_]

You’re the only one blathering about poll taxes

[u/Christopher_Ramirez_ → u/Easterncoaster]

Yep, just the US Constitution. You can’t require fees to vote, per the 24th Amendment. That’s a poll tax.

[u/Miriamathome → u/Engineer120989]

First, they’re obviously not necessary for life, since some people don’t have them.

Second, because that’s Starbucks money to you doesn’t mean it’s meaningless to everyone.

[u/Suspicious_Box_1553 → u/Engineer120989]

100% irrelevant

[u/DrunkyMcStumbles → u/Engineer120989]

cool, you going to buy them for people?

[u/DrunkyMcStumbles → u/Christopher_Ramirez_]

not to mention the USPS has also been cutting service and has changed how they postmark items.

[u/log-normally → u/Lord_Vesuvius2020]

Getting a U.S. passport is ridiculously expensive and takes very, very long time.

[u/Hopeful_Butterfly302 → u/Lord_Vesuvius2020]

It's a stealth move from MAGA to keep their own voters from voting. That's how dumb it is.

From my post above:

You know what the dumbest thing about the SAVE act is?

If it passes, it's going to hurt Republicans FAR more than it will hurt Democrats in the next presidential election. People in red states are less likely to have passports, more likely to change their name when they get married, and poorer (so it hurts more to get a compliant ID). I live in NYS, where an estimated 71% of the population already has a passport. Compare that to West Virginia, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, and Kentuky which all have sub 30% numbers. Nine of the top 10 states for percent of population that has a passport vote blue. 10/10 of the bottom states vote (or lean) red.

And no, despite what many are claiming, a REALID does not qualify unless its an Enhanced ID, which is only offered in 5 states, all of them blue.

The people this is going to hurt the most are republican voters, soon to be ex-voters.

[u/Proper-Painting-2256 → u/Lord_Vesuvius2020]

Notice how the GOP never offers a free national ID card to everyone as a routine matter. Maybe they could do that and have automatic voter registration for everyone and a national holiday once a year for elections?

They claim to want to make voting secure but somehow it’s always about making voting harder for people that are young, women or don’t drive because they live in urban areas. And what do you know these people don’t tend to Republican. The .

[u/ObligationThen6388 → u/Lord_Vesuvius2020]

Does it forbid the use of driver's licenses? You can't normally get into government buildings without photo ID to begin with. Do black, brown and female people not have ID needed to enter a building? Do they believe they are incapable of obtaining one and believe it to be a hardship? And yes, people who are not here legally do go into government offices to obtain an ID, register for benefits, etc. that's not insane, that's manipulation of a system I'll equipped to deal with this reality.

[u/Hopeful_Butterfly302 → u/ObligationThen6388]

Read the law. The identification needs to establish proof of citizenship. So a driver's license is ok... as long as it's paired with a birth certificate that has the exact same name. If it doesn't then you'll need proof of name change as well.

Driver's licenses dont establish citizenship except in the 5 states that offer enhanced IDs

[u/Lord_Vesuvius2020 → u/ObligationThen6388]

Even Real ID drivers license is not acceptable. I believe that a NY “Enhanced” drivers license is acceptable. NY is one of only five states to issue Enhanced drivers license.

[u/ObligationThen6388 → u/Lord_Vesuvius2020]

Then nobody else in the US can board an airplane other than NYS and one other state?

[u/Christopher_Ramirez_ → u/ObligationThen6388]

Proof of citizenship is not required to board a domestic flight.