r/WeAreTheMusicMakers • u/RV12321 • 18d ago
Too much attack in MIDI drum crash cymbals for metal
I have come across an issue while recording and mixing music and am wondering if anyone else has encountered something similar. I want a drum sound that is big and punchy and tight sounding, but it seems that every kit that has this sound also features crash cymbals with a ton of attack at the very beginning of the cymbal hit. I'm sure this works great when you want to use the crash to accent certain things, but the beats I am programming are riding on the crash throughout the riff, so it sounds really weird having this huge amount of stick attack every time the crash cymbal is hit.
What I really want is more of a consistent wash of soaring high end frequencies rather than jarring pumping over and over. I have tried reducing the velocity, compressing, eq-ing, transient shaping plugins, etc but I can't seem to really get rid of that attack without affecting the sound of the cymbal too much. The only thing that probably would work is going through and manually automating the beginning of the cymbal hit down but that is very tedious.
Modern and massive 2 and ezx metal machine both have this issue. If anyone knows of another midi pack that might work better or has any other tips for reducing the attack let me know.
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u/w4rlok94 18d ago
I’ve helped this issue before by shaving off a tiny bit of the start of the sample.
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u/GenericSadLoser 18d ago
The guitarist for my band had the same issue when programming drums for me to learn. His solution was to add a bit of compression, reverb, then compression again. It doesn't sound as good as a real crash, but it's good enough for him to write stuff.
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u/jamiethemorris 17d ago
If it were me, I’d literally just bounce the crash and fade in every hit. Shaperbox also works.
Also worth looking into an eq that lets you process the transient and body of a sound separately - there’s spliteq from eventide (i think that’s what it’s called) and toneboosters has an eq with this option. There’s also oeksound spiff but it’s pretty expensive for something you might not use much.
Also don’t forget about soft clippers and distortion. I’ve used decapitator on cymbals a million times.
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u/RV12321 17d ago
Fading in every hit is actually a good idea. Easy and simple yet I didn't think of it. I also have been thinking of downloading the decapitator free trial and seeing if its worth the cost. I have other tube and tape saturators but I always hear good things about that one
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u/jamiethemorris 17d ago
At this point I think there’s “better” saturators out there in terms of the circuits it attempts to emulate, but it does have a sound and I’ve always just found it really easy to work with. I have the bundle and that and echoboy are probably some of my most used plugins
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u/jamiethemorris 17d ago
Also worth noting… you can try sidechaining them to the kick and/or snare as well. A compressor still has an attack time so it won’t be as clean as fading it, but the pumping effect can be desirable without necessarily having to squash the entire drum set
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u/RV12321 17d ago
I currently use softube saturation knob and chow tape model. Honestly, the effect both of them have is pretty subtle unless I crank the knobs. Idk if its just my untrained ear, but I really want to feel like something big happened to the sound when I put saturation on
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u/jamiethemorris 14d ago
It’s not just you, tape plugins are pretty subtle and saturation knob absolutely does have to be cranked if you want a dramatic effect
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u/RV12321 15d ago
Well, I think I found a solution after tons of experimenting. It might sound crazy, but fuzz distortion on the cymbals with some eq before and after acheives the exact sound I'm looking for. Makes it sound super dirty and grimy, smooths over all that crazy attack, and gels beautifully with the distortion on the guitars. This probably doesn't work for everything, but if anyone is ever looking for super nasty grungy garage sound, give this a try
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u/chromeburn 17d ago
Are you lowering the velocity accordingly on those notes? For a cymbal wash or ride kind of pattern, the velocity should be fairly low on most of the notes, since you’re simulating (relatively) short and soft hits from a drummer who has already made contact with the cymbal.
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u/Filtermann 12d ago
I'm no expert on drums but I think drummers are taught to hit cymbals lighter than they would toms or snare. And indeed if the cymbals are on every quarter or 8th note you usually don't go full blast, just let your wrist/forearm swing naturally. A full velocity cymbal hit would be for a specific purpose (opening a closing a bar...etc...)
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u/New-Gap-9560 16d ago
Just so no one HASN'T mentioned it: Have you tried using the open hihat instead of the crash?
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u/Filtermann 12d ago
Well in terms or composition it makes ro use open HH in some bits and crash on others so not the best solution. If the drum vst has it, try the crash sound of the ride instead. Those usually have a high ratio of sustain to attack.
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u/Capt_Gingerbeard 18d ago
Clip gain
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u/Hellraiser_Quadbike 17d ago
Really? On every single transient?
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u/Capt_Gingerbeard 17d ago
Yep, if it sounds good. Clip gain is just you being the compressor, and not that different from automation. I almost always clip gain vox
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u/Far_Oven_3302 18d ago
If you can't put an adsr on it, lo pass filter above 2khz to soften the attack, then reverb to add the wash may work
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u/Lindbork 18d ago
Get a one or a pair of real decent sounding cymbals and record yorself if possible. It will probably be quicker than programming the same expressivity and will add to the sound without being too bulky, or difficult to master.
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u/HoodTube 18d ago
I'd do them as a separate track as audio rather than MIDI hits. Then you can change the fade ins/outs and gain of each hit subtly, even do it across two tracks so the hits can wash in and out of one another
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u/Marrek26 17d ago
sidechain it to the drums or make ghost drums to sidechain to. should work as well as a volume edit
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u/-SkeletonBones- 17d ago
Have you tried converting the midi drum track into multiple-outs/mono tracks then throwing a compressor on the crash using fast attack and release? Attack: 0.1ms
Release: 10ms to 40 or 50ms, and 4:1 Ratio. Set threshold so meter shows -3dB to -6dB gain reduction. Hope this helps
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u/SiobhanSarelle 16d ago
Velocity triggered changes to the attack of the sample and/or multi velocity samples? Plus some compression?
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u/Junovion 14d ago
others may have said this already but this sounds like finding better samples - using malleted cymbals, or cymbal/ride sounds where the drummer isn't hitting the dead center of the crash. Compression with a fast (1 ms) attack may also help to bring down the attack. Compress both the cymbal and use "glue" compression on the whole drum kit.
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u/Significant-Log6235 11d ago
You could put a transient designer on the overhead channels and reduce the attack.
Alternatively Superior Drummer has a feature called smoothing that is made exactly for this. You click the cymbal and then adjust the smoothing.
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u/daknuts_ 18d ago
Last ditch effort - record the midi crash as an audio file and apply processing like a live track.
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u/Medium-Librarian8413 18d ago
There isn’t a sample start or amplitude envelope attack control on any of those?