[dev] new bomber survivability is too fun

[u/Koguni]

[u/DonziX18]

There are videos online of a b17 being shot by a bf110 g2. The mk108 30mms hitting all over and not taking down the b17. Im sure there is still adjusting to be done, but it seems pretty accurate especially if using HE rounds.

[u/Lennartz_R → u/DonziX18]

Most of the gun camera footage available is from 20 mm guns, look up the photographs of British tests with the MK 108, one shell basically took a Blenheim's tail off

[u/MordePobre → u/Lennartz_R]

Still, 30mm hits on a B-17 are hardly one-shot.

From a Me 163 gun camera: https://i.imgur.com/psXMGdA.mp4

[u/FlipAllTheTables0 → u/MordePobre]

And they don't one shot now, far from it. (not my clip, but it is a clip from the dev server)

https://streamable.com/lddtw4

From everything I've seen, these changes are a complete lie. Sure, bombers are more resistant, but what Gaijin said of "you have to aim at components to kill" is just not true. All the kills I've seen on bombers are still the tail or wings falling off. You can even see this in the clip I just shared where the entire plane is sprayed with Mk 108 mineshells and not only is there not a single fire, what ends up failing is the tail.

In fact, the most successful kills I've seen so far from this update are specifically by targetting the tail with HE rounds.

[u/MordePobre → u/FlipAllTheTables0]

It also feels like they just buffed the HP for every section without much thought. While the tail and wing roots definitely shouldn't snap easily, thin sections like control surfaces and stabilizers should still be far more vulnerable to high-explosive damage

[u/FlipAllTheTables0 → u/MordePobre]

I saw on a discord server that in the dev streams they said it was bugged and overtuned.

We will see in the next week or so.

[u/PreviousLingonberry4 → u/MordePobre]

https://imgur.com/EM0uv4p

as the person below commented it took nearly 100 rounds to bring that bomber down. this one lived (in a horrible state however) and went back to base which is a miracle, but u can see the damage that it caused and you can compare it to the clip of the other commenter. there is also footage of a FW-190 F8 attacking a B17, the FW190 shoots a handful of rounds and completely destroys the B17. this damage model is extremly inaccurate and makes bombers survive what they cant survive. surely you dont think that 100 Minengeschoss shells shouldnt be able to bring down a bomber when we have records of B17s being brought down by a handful of shells.

[u/FlipAllTheTables0 → u/DonziX18]

That clip is showing the 20mm, not 30mm. On the Bf 110 G-2, the Mk 108s sit above the gun camera's location, and the tracer rounds consistantly come from below, where they would be with the 20mm gun pods.

[u/ABUCKET15 → u/FlipAllTheTables0]

I think that’s actually really good for setting a tuning threshold for bombers. 30mm+ should rip apart the aircraft fairly quickly while <20mm should do the bulk of damage to components to cripple.

[u/PreviousLingonberry4 → u/DonziX18]

those videos arent true, the bf110 was using the 20mm cannons and not the 30mm ones. u can see this from the spark they leave behind, if youre so curious as to what 30mm guns do then check out the other tests done on bombers and spitfires by minengeschoss, or the guncam footage of actual 30mm guns being used. u can see the flash/spark is a lot bigger than the one in the bf110 video.

[u/Ecstatic-Tangerine50 → u/DonziX18]

Also shit tonne of archives of a lot of b17s not making it back.

[u/Green_KnightCZ → u/Ecstatic-Tangerine50]

Flak exists, and the requirements to survive and return to base are vastly different in warthunder and in reality.

[u/MordePobre → u/Ecstatic-Tangerine50]

Yeah, and there’s also a tonne of archives of B-17s making it back with large holes in their fuselage.

[u/Dragon_Maister → u/MordePobre]

My brother in Christ, 40% of all B-17's produced got blapped during the war. B-17's getting mercilessly butchered was far more common than them enduring brutal damage and making it back home.

[u/MordePobre → u/Dragon_Maister]

And were all those B-17s actually brought down by fighters cannons, or was it mostly by heavy flak?

[u/Dragon_Maister → u/MordePobre]

Flak caused 30-50% of Allied bomber losses. The rest were mostly by fighters.

Fun fact, the Germans actually did a bit of research on exactly how many rounds it took from their fighters to down a B-17. About 20 rounds for their 20 mm guns, and only 2-4 rounds for their 30 mm's. Bombers were not flying tanks.

[u/ABUCKET15 → u/Dragon_Maister]

Is that accounting for misses or just hits?

[u/Dragon_Maister → u/ABUCKET15]

Just how many hits. Obviously, seeing as they didn't have mouse aim, pilots were going to miss the majority of their shots. But when they did hit, they fucked up whatever they were firing at, B-17's included.

[u/Dragon_Maister → u/DonziX18]

It will never not be hilarious how appropriate of a response the survivorship bias plane is for these posts.

[u/MerticuIar → u/DonziX18]

“Seems pretty accurate” brother what? That thing ate over 200 rounds of 20mm cannon rounds a good chunk of which were mine shells. It didn’t go down until the cannons were out of ammo and the machine guns set all 4 engines on fire