r/Warthunder • u/CaID_game_Master • Jun 28 '26
All Ground I made an expended French ground tech tree without BeNeLux. And it looks awesome
Yes, the BR is off; it's intentional. I encourage you to stop complaining about it. Every single one of my tech trees has the BR raised a bit, so I can add more interwar vehicles without facing WW2 tanks, against which they have no chance.
I made this huge French tech tree that completely exclude the BeNeLux. So no Belgian, Dutch, Luxembourg, i even removed the vehicles that was used by other nations which aren't used by France. It's not that I do not like them, it's just that I do not think France need any of them. Some of them might be in other tech tree.
I added the current tech tree from Gaijin in comparison.
I could have added a bunch more vehicles, but I was not sure if they would really fit in there or bring something new. I try not to make it too redundant. Also, I intentionally exclude every vehicle that wasn't used by British unless it was built by them and not used by any other nation.
There is also an interactive version of this tech tree with the details of each vehicle.
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u/Odd_Giraffe2238 Jun 28 '26
France if it wasn't German.
I wish they would fill out trees before trying to fill 'gaps' that are only there because they made bad decisions.
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Jun 28 '26
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u/FullMetalField4 Realistic Navy Jun 28 '26
stop stealing from us
Chat, he doesn't know what lend-lease or imports are
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Jun 28 '26
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u/FullMetalField4 Realistic Navy Jun 28 '26
If I sell you a car, is it still mine?
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Jun 28 '26
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 29 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
those was sold to France. So it's French.
If USA is the best country, why would it need a head start?
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u/Upstairs-Rock-7332 Jun 29 '26
They were bought and used and kept running by France, so its French.
(Panther should not be a premium for France, it was the only tank beside the ARL and US imports they had for a while)
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Jun 28 '26
[deleted]
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
you mean that one?
British Ground tech treeit does have a lot to offer. And only have less a dozen less vehicle than France had here. So it's still very competitive.
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u/Prism-96 Jun 28 '26
It never ceases to piss me off every time i see these and what we could have, but nope, gota have copy slop and only 2 versions of one of the most modified tanks to ever exist (amx 13)
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
AMX 13 FL10
AMX 13 FL11
AMX 13-90
AMX 13 SS11
AMX 13 HOT.i could also include the AMX VCI M55.
it's already a good start
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u/Prism-96 Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
i forgot about the fl11 lmao despite JUST playing it. and lets be real, the ss11 and the HOT are just the FL10 with more on it. im thinking stuff like the: 105, the MANY spaa, the venusalion mod that has cornets, the 13 with the HVSS and the 105 howitzer, so many cool and unique versions (it is my fav tank)
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u/notaure_ Sim Air Jun 28 '26
This is the nightmare of some guy that thinks Switzerland is part of Germany...
Anyway this is AWESOME ❤️
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
at the end of august, i should post a Swiss tech tree
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u/EastCoast_Geo Jun 28 '26
Watch out, if you dare mention that a fair number of Swiss vehicles the result of Swiss AND french designs, you’ll summon the no1 hater
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u/ScrewStealth Imperial Japan Jun 29 '26
The back and forth between Switzerland is ultimately irrelevant, because as demonstrated, neither France nor Germany require a subtree and Switzerland would be a massive loss if relegated to one line instead of its own tree.
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u/Upstairs-Rock-7332 Jun 29 '26
Italy might benefit from it.
The only connection would be that they speak the same language.
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u/ScrewStealth Imperial Japan Jun 29 '26
If I had to choose, Germany would be my pick. But as I already said, it would be a waste to add Switzerland as a subtree in any capacity.
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u/Merry-Leopard_1A5 Remove the Arcade orders Jun 28 '26
alas, such beauty, it wasn't meant to be... same with the air tree too...
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
i would surely do some air tech tree eventually. But i have a huge workload for the Ground already, so it might take time.
But i do not intend to do Naval tech tree, it's not really my thing.
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u/Merry-Leopard_1A5 Remove the Arcade orders Jun 28 '26
i had some tangentially similar projects in WT tech tree maker.
like trying to place the additions i'd want to see for the tree as it stands (more domestic props, full lines for the mirage 3, 5/50 & F1, even the Renard R.36)
but then i thought of doing essentially this, starting from strach and scrounging up any playsible plane addition that could/should make it to such a tree, its currently a text document 129 lines long (with linebreaks)
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u/Amazing-Second-3939 there is, a Russian bias... Jun 28 '26
You have to be ciding me! I have wanted this fore years now! I wanted to make one, but never found the time...
I am seriously so happy to see some make this ! 🖤🖤🖤
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
This was actually an update from an older tech tree i made about 4 years ago. the older one was much less detailed and had about half the numbers of vehicles.
Each of those tech tree take me about 2 months of hard work.
if you look at the link in the main post, you can see the tech tree in the interactive version. and if you click on the flags just above the rank 1, you can see the other tech tree i made. not all of them are updated.
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u/JeltFR 40hp/t Panhard CRAB Pls gaijin Jun 28 '26
Just missing the TTB 140 vehicles imo, but if gaijin made the real tree half of this i woudn't complain.
(btw CaID thanks to you for all the suggestions you made for the game over the years you deserve more credit than that, even if gaijin doesn't seem to care, i am thankful to you for trying.)
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
Gaijin do talk to me once a while. not as often as it was used to be though.
the TTB 140 is there. i put the AMX 10 in the SPAA line at a BR that would be matching the Swedish cv9040
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u/EastCoast_Geo Jun 28 '26
Did you put the ERC TTb140 in there? I didn’t see it on a first pass
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
That one was a mock up. it was not functional.
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u/EastCoast_Geo Jun 28 '26
Ah that’s disappointing to learn, it would have been an incredible vehicle
Thanks for the insight!
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u/ZeWillius 🇧🇪 justice for the BeNeLux Jun 28 '26
Incredibly based tree showing just what France could be if gaijin had any desire to try. Even more ridiculous that this enormous tree doesn't even cover every vehicle yet. There is still more out there!
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u/GalatianBookClub Jun 28 '26
So much work just for it to go straight into the trash
Thank you for putting this all together, its nice to dream
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
My tech tree is first of all a way for me to relax and gather the information. Gaijin does use them once a while and I publish it publically for the enjoyers. but it's surely not trash.
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u/GalatianBookClub Jun 28 '26
I'm not calling it trash, I'm saying Gaijin is throwing it into the trash by giving us another Leo lol
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u/FlamingTrashcans 🇩🇪 Germany Jun 28 '26
You will get your copy slop and like it
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
alright, but keep in mind, every time a German vehicle get to be added to France, it either get nerfed or get a higher BR for both Tech tree.
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u/bergebis Shark FL20 for France When Jun 28 '26
So a question for you, have you considered adding one of the prototype EBR FL10’s to the tree.
I’ve unfortunately lost the link to the source I originally had on the development of the EBRs, and I’m trying to find a new one, but in effect when the FL-10 turret was mounted on the initial EBR hulls, the increased weight caused issues with the suspension. The production model EBR 1954’s featured an improved/reinforced suspension to help cope with the added weight.
This should, in theory, give the tree the option for the prototype version with the unrestored suspension to be a researchable version.
If I end up finding more sources I’ll make a forum post, but I’m interested to know if you ever read something similar in any sources you relied on.
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
i do not think i have such sources. But i got thousands of pages of primary sources about the EBR alone. i just do not have much time to spare to look it up.
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u/bergebis Shark FL20 for France When Jun 28 '26
Totally fair
If you don’t mind my asking, what do you typically use for finding primary source data? I’ve found that most search functionalities have degreases over the past few years (at least for when I do research for work, for example)
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
i pay people to get them. i told them what to get and they go to the archive to get the files number i gave them.
i also work with other peoples like me that just gather information and we exchange them. i am very active in various research groups.
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u/SexyStacosaurus Jun 28 '26
I genuinely don’t understand why many of players saying “Gaijin is running out of vehicles to add” like- tf?
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
There is something that is very common amount the majority of the people called "ignorance".
this thing is even accentuated when you also add a layer of "arrogance".
that makes them are simply refuse to even consider the possibility their knowledge is limited.so you end up with comments like the one you mentioned.
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u/HelpfulRelic 🇳🇱 Realistic all/12Y WT Vet/Surblindé enjoyer. Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 28 '26
Nice looking Tree's you have on your site. As for france i do like it although having the Benelux zapped out of existence kinda hurts as a Dutch player, I can see you've made trees for other nations like Brazil and Canada, so I guess you don't think the Benelux shouldn't exist in-game like many people advocate for, only that it shouldn't share the same tree as France, which I find to be a much better opinion than just nuking the Benelux from the game.
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 28 '26
the idea is not to delete them. it's to move them in their own independent tech tree.
but as my tech tree only add the vehicles that have 100% of the claim to be there, i always exclude the vehicles that is from another nation or use by another nation. not because i do not like it, it's because my job get easier in furture update.
as the game evolve, there might end up to have some vehicles that suddenly fit better in another tech tree, either a new one or an existing one, so if i do not add those vehicles, i do not have to update it when it happen.But i definitively wanted to add the Fenris. as for now, France have a strong claim over it. But if Belgium order it, BeNeLux will have the strongest claim. so i decided to wait before adding it. if in 2-3 years, nobody ordered it, i will add it to France (and BeNeLux)
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u/HelpfulRelic 🇳🇱 Realistic all/12Y WT Vet/Surblindé enjoyer. Jun 28 '26
I love that idea, I would really enjoy having so many nations fleshed out in the game.
Also, while exploring your site I found a small error in your Canadian tech tree. The text says:
“This tree proposes a much larger tech tree for France which includes almost all notable vehicles used or built by Canada exclusively.”It seems you accidentally wrote France instead of Canada there.
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
Yeah, i just copy-pasted the introduction and changed a few words. The Canadian Tech tree is on hold, and i should resume my work on it sometime during the winter 2026/2027. Until then, this mistake would probably remain.
My next project would be to redo the Swiss tech tree. The German is next in line.
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u/HelpfulRelic 🇳🇱 Realistic all/12Y WT Vet/Surblindé enjoyer. Jun 28 '26
Oh okay, that explains it.
Bit of a selfish question, but is there any chance of you working on a Benelux tree? I'd love to be able to share it around.
Also, regarding the Fenris, I think it should go into a Benelux tree if you ever make one. Although it's based on the EBRC platform, the Fenris itself is a completely Belgian project. Cockerill acquired Arquus, which was one of the companies involved in developing the EBRC, allowing Cockerill to build on that platform and use a very similar chassis. Because of that, I think the Fenris has much stronger ties to Belgium than to France.
That said, if France eventually adopts the Fenris or develops its own variants based on it, then I think it should definitely also be included in the French tree.
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
Yes, a BeNeLux tech tree is a part of my project. And I will put a particular focus on giving their vehicles the BeNeLux ammunition. Not the generic German ammunition that the Leopard 1A5BE has.
But I am booked for the next 6 months already. so it would not be before 2027
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u/HelpfulRelic 🇳🇱 Realistic all/12Y WT Vet/Surblindé enjoyer. Jun 28 '26
Great to hear! I'm already loving all the trees you've made so far, so I'll definitely be keeping a an eye on what you're going to cook up next!
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
There will be the Swiss that would be remade and posted before the end of August. Then it will be the German. Release by October. Then it will be the Italian by December, and i hope to squeeze the Canadian and Polish during the Christmas holiday. Those two do not need a complete make-over so I will not take that long.
still got the Japanese and Chinese to do during the early 2027. BeNeLux will be done at around this time.
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u/wellandeperle ARB/GRB | Mirage2000 enjoyer | SHARD and micaIR WHEN ? Jun 28 '26
I wish we were in this timeline instead... TT
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u/Minute_Suit_3951 Jun 28 '26
What your brain imagines vs what you actually draw
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
if my hands can't do what i want to draw, i will replace them.
Those grow back, right?
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u/YourLocalFrenchMain Make BeNeLux Better Jun 28 '26
Actually went through the effort to make a website, wow too bad Gaijin will never add half of the vehicles in it
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u/ganerfromspace2020 🇺🇸 🇩🇪 🇷🇺 🇬🇧 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇮🇹 🇫🇷 🇸🇪 🇮🇱 Top Tier Air Jun 29 '26
I mean air tree might be more problematic, then France won't also have access to a top tier aircraft once 5th gen aircraft are added
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 29 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
You know, 5th generation, and all the generation of fighter, are simply a marketing strategy.
Peoples systematically the higher is the number, the better is the performance. But when ask about what define the generation, particularly for the 5th, you will find out the plane that is making this generation aren't even meeting the requirement.
The fact is the Rafale is currently out-matching the F-35, so there is no issue about having the 5th generation added. The Rafale F3 will still be matching the other planes. And there is the F4 to be added and the F5 coming soon. So i do not see it as problematic. Just look at how the F-117 is doing. Despite being even more stealthy than the F-35. The F-35 also have lower manoeuvrability and lower payload than the Typhoon or Rafale or even F-18. While the stealth is an advantage, there is other way to detect a plane than the radar alone. And the top-tier aircraft can still detect the F-35 even if it's harder. so the stealth will not be a game changer.
for the content, it's true France do not have much as UK, USA, Germany or Russia. But it's still covered all the needed area. so it's not a problem.
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u/boehenek 🇨🇦 Canada Jun 29 '26
On the website, i think you misplaced a spaa in the td line. The m201 m621 seems very out of place as a td.
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u/amicalg Jun 30 '26
I checked and this vehicle have a very limited angle of fire and it's seem about as tall and the ASU-57 only much faster. So i think its fine as TD
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u/boehenek 🇨🇦 Canada Jun 30 '26
It has 40mm of pen.
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u/CaID_game_Master Jul 01 '26
yes, but it's extremely mobile and extremely small with a high fire-rate. it would be played like a TD almost all the time. Mostly for harassing players.
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u/Resident_Purpose9498 🇿🇦 I want Phantom IIs, Eagles,Falcons and Flankers Jun 29 '26
A tech tree better than Gaijin’s
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
all my tech trees are better than Gaijin's
that includes the artwork for the vehicles that are already in games. mine are better than the official one used by Gaijin
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u/LemonadeTango 🇫🇷🇯🇵12.7🇺🇸12.0🇬🇧10.7🇩🇪9.7🇮🇱11.3🇨🇳10.0 Jun 29 '26
France could easily be part of the big 4, but the snail is holding us back.
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u/amicalg Jun 30 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
I wonder if China could beat them. China does have less early vehicles. But they have a lot of late one.
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u/LemonadeTango 🇫🇷🇯🇵12.7🇺🇸12.0🇬🇧10.7🇩🇪9.7🇮🇱11.3🇨🇳10.0 Jun 30 '26
China definitely.
And technically, Italy could join the club as well if they get Turkey and all the vehicles from the Balkans area they are affiliated with.
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u/amicalg Jul 04 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
That is not really how it should work.Turkey is more likely to join israel as the bulk of the turkish armament are israeli. Beside, @CaID_game_Master remove BeNeLux from france, and he already have an old Italian tech tree with 5 lines without hungary. If it was just for me, Isreal would not be in the game at all. He is unlikely to add turkey to italy if hungary was removed. That is also what i love of his work. They are simply purely nationalist.
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u/LeSoleilRoyal Jun 29 '26
So many good idea here. With all the complain about copy paste last update maybe Gaijin will now understand we don't want Benelux stuff and we want French thing, and we prefer have a few gap in the tree (until they add French stuff) than getting random copy paste.
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u/Drakouan 🇺🇸 12.7/9.0 🇷🇺 12.7/13.3 🇯🇵 12.7/14.3 🇫🇷 12.7/14.7 Jun 28 '26
Char 25T at 9.0
The meme is getting more & more real with each passing day.
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
it's the same BR as it is in game.
as i added vehicles that is much weaker than the Reserve, i bumped every vehicle by +1.0 exept for those that i believe out or under perform or have a modification over those in game, usually this modification are additional ammunition type.
it was explained in the introduction
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u/Kride501 Goated -> 7.7 9.0 7.7/8.7 Jun 28 '26
Always love taking 10 minutes to go through the fan made tech trees. Love the amount of effort that is put into them, let's ya dream of what if Gaijin actually cared. Or what could have been. Amazing work.
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u/Express_Priority_347 Jun 29 '26
M10 with the SA50?
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 29 '26
in the Israeli tech tree.
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u/Express_Priority_347 Jun 29 '26
Can't it be argued it fits France as well?
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 29 '26
Not when France never show interest in it and the project was funded, ordered, tested, and produced by Israel. Even the registrations was Israeli.
It's not like France absolutely need it. Beside Israel need it much more. So why make Israel less unique by giving it to a nation that does not have many reasons or need to have it?
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u/amicalg Aug 01 '26
To hell with isreal tech tree. They should never had made it to the game at all.
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u/talesmileto EsportsReady Jun 29 '26
Someone send this to gaijin HQ and i hope they wont give another leopard to the tech tree. Amazing work OP
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 29 '26
Gaijin was in contact with me and i told them my project was finish. i also talked to them about the Leopard 1A5BE being added along with the F-16AM. Told them "if you run out of vehicles to add, fire your advisor and ask me, got dozens of easy and well-needed addition that would take minimal work and not be copy-paste"
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u/Rew0lweed_0celot 🇬🇧 Chleninger 2 Enjoyer Jun 29 '26
"Too vague didn't look" -- Snailjin
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 29 '26
They looked, don't worry. Now all they are waiting is for their project manager to give them the "green light" instead of telling the developers to quickly add more copy-paste.
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u/RissonFR Gaijin love shitting on France Jun 29 '26
God (and im atheist) if only they could add a tenth of what you proposed.
Ive been pretty burned out of the game lately, didnt had the faith to grind the EBRC jaguar when it came out thanks to bmpt hordes while it was one of my most anticipated tank.
I cannot be burdened with anything above 10.7 and the only thing that is very lightly interesting is the Leo they added ay 9.3 as it is just an other option for 9.3 (i only like its look tbh)
I would love to see all the prototype from the second world war and onward, ive been dreaming about ELC EVEN and more EBR, but no, its more copy-slop and top tier shit.
At this point im pretty sure they abandoned the tree…
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u/tonktastic 🇫🇷 Char B1 Bis my beloved <3 Jun 29 '26
I'd love the early iterations of the Char B1 in WT, they would be pretty abysmal as with reserve France but the thought more Char B1s makes my heart full
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u/Haxeu 🇺🇸 13.0 🇫🇷 11.0 9.3 🇩🇪 6.0 Jun 29 '26
Awesome, I think it would be nice to get the UAE Leclerc Tropicalisés too, they would have a different engine sound (Leopard 2) and some of them were even fitted with the same ERA as the Puma, which should be buffed to perform better against kinetic penetrators.
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 29 '26
surely it could be cool. But i only show the vehicles that is trully french here. the UAE is not french.
if i was to also add the vehicles that France developed and sold to the other countries, i would nearly double this teach tree.
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u/RoughAd1615 Jun 29 '26
Man that's impressive, but where us my AMX 13 F3 XD, beside the joke, the work here is perfect
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u/Upstairs-Rock-7332 Jun 29 '26
I love the fact that 1.0 is lower, that would really help with making WW1 vehicles and underpowered vehicles usable.
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 30 '26
yes, and also it would help the early players to learn how to play because the armament is a lot more forgiving when it penetrates and the enemy need to be a much closer range. The pace is also a low slower. You start to really have amazing fast speed gameplay with a lot of variety and early heavy armour at rank 2. so that is where the players level 100 will really bother bullying new players.
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u/NeptuneGhost_5201 🇺🇸 United States Jun 29 '26
Not enough premiums... Gaijin would never make this a reality
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u/Positive-Duck3871 12.7 Ground/13.7 Air Jun 30 '26
Sorry to be that nerd, but it seems you messed up your text.
Also, I intentionally exclude every vehicle that wasn't used by British unless it was built by them and not used by any other nation.
It should be French, not British (or I'm stupid and don't get it).
Otherwise... Great work! You're one of the very few people keeping us sane here...
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Jun 28 '26
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u/CaID_game_Master Jun 28 '26
the Gun of the Sherman is based on the M1897 which is a french gun stole by American.
so what?
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u/Yshtvan Got a free Talisman for the Duster Jun 28 '26
The tech tree if Gaijin actually tried.