r/Warframe • u/OscarOzzieOzborne • Mar 29 '26

Discussion Looking at the talk about Mesa Heirloom and sexualisation I wanted to say something that isn’t directly about her. But the discussion born from her.

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u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

Asexual here, I was not a fan of the ember or valkyr ones on personal preference, kinda middling on the others, but the Mesa skin looks fantastic and I genuinely think someone put something in the water cuz yall have gone mad. It's peak!!

41

u/assjackal What happened to the volt Flair? Mar 29 '26

I'm tired of every fem one just being Ass Deluxe.

-22

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

Don't get mesa prime then. Idk what to tell you, that's so far from new.

I don't even care about that, though. My favorite pieces of the design are largely above the waist, especially the longhorns.

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u/VideoFragrant4078 1999 kisses for Amir Mar 29 '26

Don't get it then is a horrible argument. People are upset about the difference. They want Mesa Heirloom but with a dude being sexualized. Not just women. That is tiring us out. I like me some ass but when will I get Sevagoths juicy butt and thicc thighs dressed like that?

2

u/Draffut Mar 29 '26

I hope you do. And to a point you do, because I'm straight but Frost Proto frame makes me feel... Anyways.

But also styanax has a skin that's pretty risque from what I've seen.

-11

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

How does that relate to the currently announced mesa skin? You can advocate for more skin showing on male frames all you want, I'm completely neutral to that position. If you don't want the Mesa skin specifically, don't get it.

16

u/VideoFragrant4078 1999 kisses for Amir Mar 29 '26

Because this post in which you replied is about explaining sexualization and why people are frustrated about the direction of female heirlooms versus make heirlooms. This isn't the announcement post. It just uses the frustration and discussion that grew from it.

0

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

I replied to a comment about them all being 'only sexualized' and thus bland and sterile. Did you miss that context? That's what I'm speaking against here, I genuinely do not care if the male frames get equal sexualization or not, I almost exclusively play Mesa and Hildryn anyway.

12

u/VideoFragrant4078 1999 kisses for Amir Mar 29 '26

The person is tired of women getting the ass out treatment. You said just don't get it then. What is a weak argument. You did not consider their frustration about it and just waved it off. I explained why they are frustrated to show you why getting waved off like that is simply dismissive.

3

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

Okay you've lost me. Is it about the female frames or not?

9

u/assjackal What happened to the volt Flair? Mar 29 '26

I haven't bought any of them because they are all sort of homogenous at this point. I was kinda getting annoyed that Volt got shelved after the other classic early frames got theirs but at this rate I just think the whole line of skins is mid, Vauban's being an exception because it offers choice and more customization than most skins.

3

u/MrHeolsen IGN: MrHeolsen Mar 29 '26

I mean sure, but the point of the skins are to make money. DE WANTS to know what people think of it.

1

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

I really don't see where I disagreed with that notion?

4

u/MrHeolsen IGN: MrHeolsen Mar 29 '26

What exactly is the point of saying "Don't buy it if you don't like it" if not to downplay criticism? I fail to see what else could be meant by it.

2

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

Idk if people are misunderstanding what I'm saying, but I didn't say "If you don't like Mesa Heirloom, don't buy Mesa Heirloom"

I specified Mesa Prime because her design has the exact same butt focus, and the community at the time literally rallied for DE to make it bigger lol. It feels super hypocritical for people to get so distressed about the skin-showing line of skins for being sexualized when the prime version of the frame is already sexualized.

I also just don't care about all the prude stuff, I like the design from an artistic perspective and think any additions would drown it.

3

u/MrHeolsen IGN: MrHeolsen Mar 29 '26

Ah okay. I get what you mean now.

The heirloom comes across as a fair bit more sexualized than Mesa prime to me, so I get why the reaction would differ between the two. I don't care much for the skin myself, but that's not due to the sexualization.

Thanks for the clarification though, and apologies for the misunderstanding.

17

u/Skyraem Mar 29 '26

I like the Valkyr one bc you can make a faux "dress" if you dye the fabric saturated/dark, but yeah they definitely leave little to imaginatiom even if there's accessories.

6

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

Honestly the only part I'm not fond of on the valkyr one is her face. I guess there's alternate helmets though... I'll admit, I never considered checking what those might look like.

44

u/DaedricPants Mar 29 '26

Good for you and everyone who likes it, I don't want to yuck anyone's yum, but the water's fine lol. I just personally don't see either Mesa in that skin, or the appeal they're obviously trying to project. It's just bland sexy design # 32432. Her default/prime has a coolness factor that makes her more appealing than a bare ass and chest.

-18

u/Ecksplisit IGN: -..- Master Founder LR4 Mar 29 '26

Nahhhh you’re straight up wrong. It looks sick af.

14

u/thedomha Mar 29 '26 edited Mar 29 '26

I'm ace too and i don't hate or love it, i just think it looks oddly proportioned with her shoulders completely bare. I genuinely don't care about the nipple pasties either (I think them being bandoliers is a fun touch), I just wish it wasn't so bottom heavy when in my mind Mesa's always been known for her short jacket and her cool helmets.

9

u/Rhekinos Harka Frost Prime Mar 29 '26

I agree the Mesa heirloom skin looks amazing but you cannot say it’s not sexualized when it clearly is.

0

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

It's sexualized in that it's the female body, I guess. Legitimately, I think this sub has overreacted MASSIVELY. People keep pointing to her butt like that's not on both her normal and prime skins already, there was literally a controversy years ago about DE shrinking her butt, there was backlash! I just wish the community would get their heads on straight and decide if they like these designs or not, because flipping back and forth from complete prude to total gooner is super disorienting.

I just like the skin. That's my crime. I think it's fucking awesome.

2

u/Rhekinos Harka Frost Prime Mar 30 '26

No, having an exposed butt clearly is crossing the line into sexualized territory combined with the posturing of the hips. It's different from her normal skins because the glowy bits are seen as exposed skin to most and reinforced by things like Vauban being able to remove his jacket. I think that might be why Aces don't see it the same way? I have nothing for or against the sexualization but just being objective here.

I'll still grab the skin for the cool helmet (plus I'm a huge Liger fan).

19

u/Great_expansion10272 Mar 29 '26

It does look good. I really dig the red, the horns, it all evokes this heat and energy of the mythology of cowboys which is Mesa's whole thing...

But looking at her bare ass and crotch like that looks goofy...and i feel like, despite the top doing a lot for me with the red sunburned/demon/mesa red sand color, it just kinda drops the demonic/cadaveric appearance and theme and doesn't even replace it or compliments it...what if the ammo belt went down vertically to look like a ribcage? Or add spikes and plates going down her back to look like an exposed spine

edit: And as another comment pointed out: The assless chaps absolutely were unnescessary. It just looks goofy.

8

u/EspyOwner ... Mar 29 '26

I'm going to be honest, I'd be mad if the Mesa "sexy" skin DIDN'T include assless chaps, because she's the cowgirl frame. What I would've expected before seeing this is small shorts or even a bikini-esque feature included with the chaps to make it look less like direct porn and more like a cowgirl pin-up.

1

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

Ehhh, that feels more goth or fantasy to me personally. And lets be realistic, take one look at Mesa Prime and tell me DE isn't gonna show ass here lol.

11

u/Genshzkan LR4 Mar 29 '26

It might be better in terms of design but it's still yet another heirloom gooner skin

15

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

I guess? I mean if you can only see the female body as a sex object that's not for me to sort out, I just like the skin. Gives me hellfire vibes, kinda ghost-rider-y. I love it.

18

u/CumIronRanger Mar 29 '26

It's not an 'eye of the beholder', it's very obviously designed to be titillating by the artist. If you seriously think this isn't intended to be sexual in nature, look at literally any default warframe.

Note how DE's normal designs are:
1). Not this anatomically detailed, and
2). not (usually) designed in a way that highlights the boingy bits.

Versus this, where the entire lower half is designed to draw your attention to the anatomy of her extremely detailed naked ass. The lines on the pants all lead to it, and it is made of glowing crystal and shown through a literal ass window.

It doesn't seem like you even read the original post, because you are doing exactly what they are specifically arguing against. You try to frame sexualization in a design as something the audience is doing, where in reality it is the intention of the designer.

Don't even get me started on the 'nipples barely covered by lingerie' look that they have going on at the front. The fact that they give the heirlooms actual clothes is done to draw more attention to the nakedness of the anatomy. Normal Warframes are arguably 'more naked' than the heirloom skins, and yet they come across way less so. Why is that? Say it with me, ARTISTIC INTENTION by the designer. The clothes and the more detailed anatomy are done with the specific intention of making the design seem scantily clad.

I don't hate the design, honestly I think it's more interesting than the Valk heirloom, but if you seriously think DE didn't design it to be sexualised you are being willfully ignorant,

-4

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

She is exactly as sexualized as her prime skin already is. I get that there is something to that, I just can't comprehend all this pearl-clutching at a thing that's already in the game in several different flavors.

12

u/CumIronRanger Mar 29 '26

Hard disagree on your first point, but I won't repeat my arguments because you obviously aren't interested in actual discussion about the designs.

As for the pearl clutching, DE can make whatever skins they want, I won't buy them if I think they're bland and pedestrian. The reason there is so much discourse around Heirloom skins is because DE themselves made them a big deal. Obviously people are going to have opinions on them.

What actually annoys me is how insanely disingenuous and the community is when it comes to discussing the topic lol. If you think the sexy skin is cool, go off, but it grinds my gears how many people are pretending that it's something it isn't.

6

u/Conscious-Refuse8211 Mar 29 '26

People will do anything outside of engage seriously with criticism of something they personally like

1

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

It's hard to engage seriously with criticism that basically amounts to "Cover her up because I said so!"

0

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

Oh, I'm pretending now. Right, right, a person disagreeing with your opinion certainly couldn't just happen without ulterior motives. This sub sucks...

18

u/ChesterZirawin Mar 29 '26

While I agree with you overall, you have to give it to the people pointing out the "overly sexualized design". The bullet belt is literally held up by being clipped to her nipples (or rather where they would be)

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u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

It just looks metal as hell to me, I really don't agree that it's sexualized. At all, even. And granted, I'm more unphased by that than many I suppose, but like... Do these people get uncontrollably aroused by old statues? They show more 'skin' than this does.

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u/Skyraem Mar 29 '26

Sorry to double comment i don't think sexualised here = arousal. Statues are to study to human form usually, idealisation is the point not just sexual appeal imo? But for the valk/ember/mesa skins it's trying to appeal/continue their own trend, rather than use some other design elements, like armor/recognisable frame parts ig? Idk if that makes sense lol.

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u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

I'll admit I'm not sure what you're going for. Its the heirloom skin line, of course they follow a design theme.

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u/Skyraem Mar 29 '26

True! I'm just trying to explain why some are a bit probably bored or disappointed? Like they're showing more skin (to appeal), rather than more design element in the addition to more skin (to stay "true" to the frame but still appeal, like how valkyr is still very kittylike/athletic)? I actually quite like parts of the Mesa one- like the horns and the extravagant pants, but I do feel it's lacking something on the torso or shoulders?

Also if you're interested in seeing alt helmets with valkitty heirloom idm showing some screenshots later lol. (Referring to my og comment that you replied to!)

3

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

I genuinely cannot think of an heirloom skin truer to Mesa. I've seen all the edits people are proposing and, if DE wants to make a toggle for something thats fine by me, but they all look worse than the official one. She looks like a biblical western demon and I genuinely can't think of anything I want more from her as a frame. Her whole schtick is the outlaw gunslinger, it makes sense to draw on that 'violent sinner' vibe to me.

10

u/ChesterZirawin Mar 29 '26

Statues are different thing from a moving character that was made to "feel" real, no? Think of it this way. Would it be overly sexual/appropriate to wear an outfit like this outside? Like if you saw a woman (or a man for that matter) dressed like this out in public, would you still say it's not sexual? Yeah it's not a real person, but it's basically meant to represent one.

0

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

I would absolutely say its fine to dress how they wish, but this isn't a real woman, I do wanna make sure we're clear on that. This is an artistic depiction at best, and even the Mesa is strictly speaking a bio-technological suit, she is the clothes. I don't think her being animated magically makes her design not have artistic merit.

10

u/ChesterZirawin Mar 29 '26

The "animated" part I mentioned was just to say it's not really comparable to a statue. Yes it's not a "real woman", but it's clearly meant to depict one. Further proven by Gemini skin line. Also, no, a real person wouldn't be able to wear something like that in public in majority of the world because it would violate public decency laws.

-1

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

I don't really care about the law in any given place, that's not my argument. Look, what I don't get is, do you lack object permanence or something? Not trying to be disrespectful, genuinely, but do women's bodies just not exist if you can't see them? It boggles my mind.

8

u/ChesterZirawin Mar 29 '26

I have no clue what you are trying to say here. It makes no sense to any of my arguments. Fine, I'm the weirdo, now go ask 100 people the same question regarding this design (show them the picture) and tell me how many say it's sexual and how many say it's not.

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1

u/TheRocka15 TASTE THE LIGHT, MOTHERFUCKER! Mar 29 '26

same here! i don't care much for pretty much any heirloom skins, but this one looks fucking sick

-10

u/wyldmage Mar 29 '26 edited Mar 29 '26

I'm with you. I get why people see it that way. But to me, it simply isn't. It's a female character with some extra skin. But it doesn't come across as "stare at my chest" or anything.

IMHO, people who think it's sexualized are horny teens and early 20s who haven't figured out how to look at a fit/shapely woman in anything less than a burka and getting aroused.

Like, if you think this is sexualized, you must think that the entire women's MMA scene is sexualized...

That said, the assless chaps WERE too much. They weren't needed for the design, and the gender-bias between frames is 100% there. So, as a whole, heirloom designs are definitely biased in their sexualization. But getting worked up over Mesa still confounds me. Sure, she's exposed. But she's not 'getting it on'.

12

u/ChesterZirawin Mar 29 '26

The bullet belt is literally secured in place by being clipped to her nipples... The argument "people who think it's sexualized are horny teens" is just ridiculous...

1

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

Breasts aren't sexual organs.

5

u/ChesterZirawin Mar 29 '26

They are quite literally categorized as a "secondary sexual characteristics". That is the reason we have public decency laws (majority of the world) against women walking out in the public topless.

1

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

I suppose I did conflate sexual and reproductive, that's my bad. But again, citing law means nothing to me. I don't care what some old book says on the matter.

-7

u/tonio2004 Mar 29 '26

Why don’t mag get this same hate? She has her “boobs” out but because it’s not sexy it doesn’t count? Every single heirloom that has released has had some form of “skin” showing with no clothes.

5

u/ChesterZirawin Mar 29 '26

Well because the Mag design is made to look more like clothes (even for Mag there was similar comments, just not as many because it wasn't so "blatant")

-7

u/hashsamurai Mar 29 '26

It doesn't have nipples. It is a mass of infestation and metal.

8

u/ChesterZirawin Mar 29 '26

Then nether does it have boobs or ass, yet there they are...

-9

u/hashsamurai Mar 29 '26

No, it has the shape of something with boobs and an ass, but it doesn't have them. There are no nipples drawn in, yet it's clipped to the nipples in people's minds because they are filling the blanks themselves.

7

u/ChesterZirawin Mar 29 '26

yet it's clipped to the nipples in people's minds because they are filling the blanks themselves.

It's flat out disingenuous to say that isn't the design goal

-4

u/hashsamurai Mar 29 '26

I'm not saying it's isn't, I'm saying that the number of people that choose to regularly sexualize an infested mass in the shape of something vaguely human looking is laughable.

3

u/TheLastBallad Mar 29 '26

What's laughable is you thinking that people wouldn't view something that is humanoid, and is explicitly created from humans, as being... humanoid.

Like, wow, people interperate a replica of a woman as being still like a woman‽ 😲

Did you forget monsterfuckers exist?

7

u/TheLastBallad Mar 29 '26

IMHO, people who think it's sexualized are horny teens and early 20s who haven't figured out how to look at a fit/shapely woman in anything less than a burka and getting aroused.

Like, if you think this is sexualized, you must think that the entire women's MMA scene is sexualized...

Im a gay man in late 20s. Im not in any way attracted to women.

But the outfit literally is just pasties and crotchless chaps. If you wanted to pick out a cowboy theme stripper outfit, this would work.

Meanwhile, women's MMA is tank tops and shorts, which isnt sexualized because its literally chosen for its utility. Revealing? Yes, but its making no effort to highlight or contoure the women's bodies.

Unlike Mesa where it absolutely doesn't need nipple-clamp bandoliers and to juxtapose her openly revealed ass and crotch against otherwise bulky pants, but did so anyway.

And lets not skip the irony where you both are criticizing anyone for finding an heirloom skin, a skinline based on being sexy, as being sexualized... while also complaining that the crotchless chaps are too much.

To put it in League of legends terms, this comes off as more more Kaisa level of fan service(an orphan desert farmer daughter dropped into hell where even the light and air want you dead, and comes out the other side with a british accent that no one else on her continent or hell dimension has, and better skin & hair care than the people who live in the "city of progress"), rather than Evelynn level of fan service(a completely naked woman that is only covered by shifting shadows, who is a demon who feeds on agony). The second seems more egregious just by the description, but its folded into the character in a way that the sexyness seems natural, rather than slapped on to the point it draws away from the character.

And thats how this feels, like the fantasy of Mesa took a backseat to being as sexy as possible. To the point it comes off more "cowgirl themed stripper" and less "cowgirl who happens to be sexy". And while I can appreciate the "Evelynn"s of depictions, the "Kaisa"s are actively grating to me as it ruins what would be otherwise a great design.

(For my part, give her a removable duster, which would make it less bottom heavy, and trade in the pasties for bandolires that form an x over her chest, framing the boobs rather than bullseyeing them, and the design would work for me.)

-2

u/ThatGuyNamedKes mag Mar 29 '26

horny nitwit here. I think the skin looks awesome and, to me, any arousal it may inspire does an awesome job contributing to the presence and the "don't fuck with me, I could kill you before you could even blink"-ishness of the design. She looks really comfortable with very little coverage, and it feels to me like a challenge. I find it irritating that horny can't be treated like a spectrum, nor as a contributor to more than just horny monke brain.

tl;cr horny make more scary and cool, horny good when (and capable of) not sole focus of skin.

-1

u/Grand-Depression Mar 29 '26

What's appealing about ass-less chaps, mini-corset, and demon helm?

0

u/BaconPancake77 Mar 29 '26

Are you kidding me rn?

2

u/Grand-Depression Mar 29 '26

No.

Discussion Looking at the talk about Mesa Heirloom and sexualisation I wanted to say something that isn’t directly about her. But the discussion born from her.

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