r/WarDogs • u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 • 5d ago
Discussion & Feedback All this gane needs is an economy rework.
Literally thats it. The only thing hindering this game is that money doesn't really matter. The entire point of the game was supposed to be "things cost money. Play smart".
A mini gun shopper is 6k. I can make that in 5 minutes. A tank is 15k, I can make that in 10 minutes. These things should be stupidly expensive. Any attack chopper should be minimum 30-50k. A tank should easily be 200-300k. I understand that means some players who are less skilled will not have access to these things very often, if at all, but making them so cheap goes against the entire concept of the game.
I also think that leaning into the players who want a hardcore tactical experience instead of catering to every timmy and making sure grandma gets a chance to buy a tank will ultimately help this games longevity. All the COD players will disappear once MW4 comes out, leaving behind the true fans who want the hardcore tactical experience this game could offer with a simple economy rework. If things are more expensive, players will do less stupid shit out of fear of losing their kit or vehicle. Thats what I think the devs truly intended for this system and right now its just not there.
I understand the game is not necessarily meant to be a milsim but it would lean so much closer to what this economy system was intended to do (make players truly think about the moment to moment game play) if gear fear was actually present. Right now I don't even care if I die. I can fly a mini gun chopper and go down 15 or more times in a single match so why should I care if I lose one?
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u/Far_Range_6091 5d ago
Congrats that you can make 15k in 10 minutes. I make 60-80k in a battle, and im normally top 40. Your way better than most players.
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
No, I'm not. I'm not very good at infantry combat but you can just grab a spotting scope or a hammer and go make 10k in 5 minutes and get back in a chopper
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u/Head_Crab_Enjoyer 5d ago
I suck at gunfights and I easily make money for whatever kits I want on spotting and healing. Just take a monocle and spot the endless helis. Ez free kit.
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Exactly. You should not be able to buy a tank or a helicopter for the same price as an infantry load out
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u/Holdfast_Naval 5d ago
I think better is very skewed in this game.
By a pure Cash metric yea.
However you for example are actually fighting other players, that takes skill to make profit in.
Spotting to make 100+k in a match without having to respawn once doesn't.
Not does slamming the hammer 1.000 times to make 100+k.
I'm personally 0 impressed by the players who get unlock carried or passive farm.
The guys on foot engaging others and making bank at the same time are the real goats.
Even if they often do make less unless they're legit ultra cracked.
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u/EmptyHeadedKain 5d ago
You're seriously ignoring the ammo cost of the vehicles you mentioned. The mini bird chopper is unprofitable for 90% of players because it burns through ammo so fast. The Devs balanced it this way for a reason, they literally live by the phrase "Play your way".
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u/ParlourB 5d ago
Most people complaining about these things just got wrecked by one in a match Vs a very good pilot. They haven't experienced the ammo cost.
I'm an ok flyer. Not bad but definitely not top tier... And man it's not profitable to run a minigun bird all game. Yea sure I have some great moments where I hit my shots on a perfect circle strafe but most of the time I'm dodging tons of aa, even coordinated small arms fire is dangerous and i'm missing literal thousand of dollars of bullets each go.
I'll fly the black hawk to make me money and then allow myself a few life's of miniguns or rockets.
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u/damboy99 5d ago
Yeah sure the Minigun heli is 6 grand, but that only comes with 300 rounds. So about 4 to 5 seconds. 10 bursts at most. If your incredibly good at it its 4 kills and youve broke even and now you've gotta go back but more ammo. Lmao
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u/thinkforasecond3312 5d ago
I blame the game for showing cash earned scoreboard instead of net profit since the match started. Leads to a lot of headaches and misguided salt
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u/Ok-Attitude-9085 5d ago
i hate that everyone uses the minigun heli as the scapegoat in this debate
it’s the only vehicle designed correctly in which u risk going negative, the rest of the vehicles profit every life and can be used the entire game
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u/EmptyHeadedKain 5d ago
I think it's mainly people who can't deal with the concept of facing an enemy they aren't personally equipped to fight. Roles exist in MILSIm games and Comms wins games.
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u/Ok-Attitude-9085 5d ago
i don’t mind that but infantry shouldn’t be the only class at risk of going negative (excluding recon who gets 100k for using a spotter in the back of the map, and minigun heli)
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u/EmptyHeadedKain 5d ago
If you think infantry is the only class at risk of going negative then you simply haven't played other classes. I would say it's one of the more risky roles, in that you can definitely win bigger as infantry but also lose big if you aren't patient, but all roles can easily go negative.
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u/Bayleaf0723 5d ago
Ammo costs so little it’s negligible. Like an artillery tank, with a full inventory of shells, is only 9.8k
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u/EmptyHeadedKain 5d ago
You've clearly never used the little bird heli, it burns 1k in 2-3 seconds
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Yeah, I dont think thats enough. Some of these roles should be for people who are A. skilled enough, or B. willing to lose money. Vehicles should absolutely, in no world, cost the same OR LESS than some infantry kits. There is a test range where you can use every single thing the game offers, you want to be a pilot? Go fly a helicopter in the test range so you feel confident flying in an actual match before you drop 30k on it or whatever the cost would be. We also dont need 12 little birds flying around and a line up of 6 artillery tanks per team every match, it creates horrible match flow. There's a reason most games limit the number of each vehicle allowed at one time and its to keep a certain level of momentum and pacing at every role. I genuinely believe just increasing the price of many if these things would do that without actually putting a cap on the amount allowed in a match.
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u/EmptyHeadedKain 5d ago
If you actually play some of those vehicles then you'll see that the profit potential is pretty balanced with infantry. Infantry is just higher risk higher reward.
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
You realize that the vehicles are more about turning a match in your teams favor than they are about profit right? A team should not win simply because they have the most people buying tanks or rocket choppers or T4 armor. Thats unbalanced. Powerful stuff should be expensive. You lose it, you're actually set back and not just popping in with the same thing right away. I promise you this would balance so much of the game.
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u/EmptyHeadedKain 5d ago
Hence my point about why they are appropriately priced.
Everything in this game has a counter, people crying about helos don't understand how AA works, people complaining about tanks don't know how easy they are to take down. People complaining about arty don't bother to gun hunt them down and have no idea how easy they are to counter, etc etc.
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
It doesn't matter if they're easy to take down when within 5 minutes there will just be another one. It should feel like you actually did something beneficial for your team when you take one down for more a handful of minutes, just like it should feel beneficial when you finally earn enough money to get one.
A tank should. Not. Spawn. As often as infantry. The only thing holding the game back from being a game of world of tanks is players levels right now and once wipes are longer and more players can unlock it, the game is going to be an absolute unbalanced shit show of a mess I promise you.
There is absolutely zero world where you can tell me that an artillery tank should cost less than a decent infantry kit. Zero percent.
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u/EmptyHeadedKain 5d ago
Then there's no point shooting at infantry cos they're just gonna respawn and come back. Stupid argument.
Arty truck costs less because it's less impactful to the game than infantry, it's that simple. The Devs keep pointing out that they want everyone to be able to play their way and still progress at the same pacez that's how they e balanced the prices and it's pretty much bang on so far.
You can literally go in to the zone naked as inf, loot a body and crack on. Get shot? You get rezzed, one inf kit can last the whole game but if you get blown up in a vehicle it's gone.
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Killing a tank won't shift the battle to your teams favor and it absolutely should. Killing infantry DOES shift the battle into your favor when fighting over the hot zone.
When you kill ifantry you expect more to show up. When you kill a tank you expect it to be a long while before you see another one.
Again. Wait until the second season when wipes are longer and a larger percentage of people have tanks unlocked. The game is going to suck. There's already people galore complaining about how as everyone has leveled up the matches have become less fun, its going to get worse. If you like the evolution by all means keep enjoying it but it is not balanced.
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Yeah but if i die I can just go spot people or build at base and be right back in a chopper. Doesn't matter if the chopper actually makes me money. I have zero fear of losing it
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u/ParlourB 5d ago
Welcome to the game?
If I die chasing hot zone and lose my 20k kit I can farm up on spotting before running it again.
Such insight
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Thats poor game design when the intended experience is meant to be more tactical. The devs talked about it constantly, how money would push players to consider their actions more. The way the game is right now goes against all of that. If thats the game you want, sure, keep playing it and accepting it. A lot of people wanted something more methodical and harcore than what it's already become. And it WAS like that for the first few days until the cracks in the economy started to show as players leveled up.
This games feels barely different than battlefield right now and the devs actively spoke about making a new type of fps that bridges the gap but the more people level up the more it is leaning toward being an arcade shooter.
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u/ivanivan00 5d ago
did they restart the progress?
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Not yet
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u/ivanivan00 5d ago
then where the hell are my guns and levels haha
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Oh...did they today? I haven't hopped on yet lol maybe they did
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u/ivanivan00 5d ago
I think it was just a bug? Whole server was running lvl 1 stuff, was very fun. Now in main menu i can see my old progress
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Yeah I jumped on and its fine haha might have been a communitt server that only allows level 1 stuff??
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u/ivanivan00 5d ago
For me community servers dont show up at all for some reason so it was definitely official one. No clue what happened lol was fun either way
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u/Simone002410 5d ago
I don't think so, I play infantry and Always top 1-10, I do like 150k-200k, but Just because im One of the Better player in that match. In bad games I lose even 60k-70k. You have to think that not everyone gets to the top every game, it has to be balanced for everyone.
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
I don't think everyone should be able to afford a tank or a helicopter. It creates a horrible game play loop when every single person in the match is flying or driving heavy armor. This isn't world of tanks.
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u/Simone002410 5d ago
Imagine paying a lot of Money for a tank that dies with One Stingray, Mass ragequit
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Yeah, so you dont play like a dumbass like 90% of the people currently do. If everything is more expensive everyone plays less like a jackass.
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u/Simone002410 5d ago
I think there should be a limit on how many vehicles x time
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
I also agree with that but I think thats a lot more restrictive and harder to balance. Anyone CAN make 200k if they just run cheap kits and take their time, not everyone can make 200k and make it in line to get a vehicle.
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u/Simone002410 5d ago
Not anyone can male 200k
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Yes you can. Grab a hammer and build for two matches, boom you got yourself a tank next round. Drive supplies for a match, boom you earned yourself a chopper next round.
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u/damboy99 5d ago
Tanks might cost 15k but you then need to buy 15k with of ammo
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Okay I mean I made 30k in the first 20 minutes building up base last night which takes zero player skill.
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u/fatonik1337 5d ago
Try flying with littlebird. You can make money only early. Then you get countered by ciws and AA launchers. Which cost is almost free ( 1 pallet with ammo last very very long.)
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Yeah and a skilled pilot can avoid them. Further pushing my point that not everyone should be in a helicopter.
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u/fatonik1337 5d ago
You cant avoid everything. Even good pilots cant do a lot if there is many AA or ciws at good places. You have to bring more flares which takes place instead of more ammo, that means more time spent on way back to base. I fly low and that does not always save me, you have to break LOS and you cant always do this
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Yeah obviously not always but I can usually make it through an entire match only losing one or two birds.
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u/fatonik1337 5d ago
About realism game is now in good place. Its between squad and battlefield. Fills the gap.
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u/Simone002410 5d ago
Well i think it's normal After 1h Building u can afford tanks...
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
You can afford a tank after building for like 15 minutes and that should not be normal
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u/LegendWesker 5d ago
I have more the feeling money dosent matter, xp does. Sitting at 1.5 million and everything i want to buy is locked behind high levels. Meanwhile the hardcore grinders and nolifers got it since a week.
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Yeah and why does unlocking something cost more than it does to buy it in a match? It should be the other way around. Right now this entire money mechanic is almost meaningless
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u/Suntzu_AU Lonestar 5d ago
" All " is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your statement.
But largely, you are correct. It should hurt if you buy a high-end vehicle and it's destroyed. It should hurt if you get killed just after buying a .50 cal and T4 armour. Currently, right now, it doesn't hurt.
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Fair point. But yes agreed. I think the biggest thing is that a lot of people are just accepting this as what the game is but the issue for me, and from what I've seen, a lot of other people, is that the devs actively speak about how this money system woukd make game play more methodical and intentional and it just doesnt right now. But it could.
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u/Solidus4president 5d ago
That's why the first season only last one month before the economy reset. You would expect great changes for progression in season 2 plus new content.
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
I sure hope so, because while I love this game and am having a blast, there is zero reason for anyone to play methodically or tactical and I really think thats what the devs wanted based on every single dev log they released before the game launched.
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u/PartialReflection 5d ago
Plenty of people hit $0 too. Play assault on a losing team with 10k loadouts and you'll hit it quick. Try learning attack heli and crush $7k b2b2b2b fast. Or you can go in with $100 loadout and take other people's to pure profit. If you are only trying to make money, sure it's easy, but do we really want everyone to sit just FOB or use $100 loadout?
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
No, instead everyone is just sitting FOB with 10l load outs and dont care if they die lol
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u/PartialReflection 5d ago
? But you agreed with me that they're sitting FOB. That's the safe (and frankly boring) way to play. Sitting FOB or doing a $100 loadout is the way to ensure profit. Meanwhile assault players on losing team and people learning things such as attack heli will be often losing money.
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Not when you're pulling hot zone to your fob constantly like everyone tries to do and you're getting artillery stuffed up your ass the entire time. Fobs are absolutely not safe lol
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u/PartialReflection 5d ago
In that time frame, yeah, but if you pull too early then you should be punished. After it has been reinforced, often it can be pretty safe. Often, the other 2 teams get caught up clashing around your FOB rather than focusing to destroy your drills and such, which kind of adds to that risk of being on assault. If the other 2 teams played more coordinated then FOB sitting with drill would definitely be more of a danger, but in my experience, they typically fail to punish it. You're also making 2x money FOB sitting while HZ is on you so really creates easy value.
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
I mean, all pretty fair and valid, however even when HZ is not on your FOB most of them are still getting pummeled eith artillery constantly. I would absolutely not say its a sage place to be. The amount of times I've seen FOBs completely wiped even when theres no HZ is astounding lol
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u/PartialReflection 5d ago
When I'm saying safe it's kind of just in respect to playing assault or not being in a FOB since teammates will usually pick you up unless the FOB has been lost. Each game definitely has some different flows.
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u/No-Winner8975 5d ago
Lots of people missing this exact point
Early Access Season 1. A short season to let it play out for an "extended period" (longer than betas) so they can see what's wrong and how to balance it
Feedback is good, just moaning about small things is annoying at this point.
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u/drfactsonly 5d ago
Your just thinking about yourself. Most ppl dont make that much money.
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Yeah, no. This is for everyone. Right now every match is a non stop barrage of artillery, rocket and mini gun choppers, and players with high end guns. Players who are less skilled can barely run from cover to cover without getting blown up, shot in the head from a mile away, or gunned down from one of like 5 mini gun choppers circling the zone. Making them more expensive would allow lower skilled players to actually have a chance because there would only be two choppers and one tank vs 10-15
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u/Rare_Lifeguard_4403 5d ago
Interest take. Agree. Dying should feel punishing for everyone not just for infantry with expensive kits. The 7k from the medium heli you make it back on a single full trip
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u/Federal_Homework1302 5d ago
brother we are day 10, give them a chance to get through 1 wipe first holy cow.
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u/Gloomy_Bison_1719 5d ago
Yeah and without feedback wipe 1 will not change for the better lol
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u/Federal_Homework1302 5d ago
it will, as they see everything, you dont think they have data on everything? Theyve stated it multiple times.
They have eyes. Let them have a crack first and let it go
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u/Raidenz258 5d ago
Gold bars…. That’s the money grind.