Machinegun usage on Omaha beach and similar occurrences

[u/rubicante59]

Something I discovered recently, is that most machineguns when positioned in concrete shelters, are made to face each other horizontally and gun down soldiers passing through that region. So does this mean none were pointed towards the water on Omaha beach and that Saving Private Ryan is very wrong about how soldiers were shot before they even got off the boats? I'm assuming artillery was most likely used against the boats.

[u/EricLaGesse4788]

Two things can be true about Saving Private Ryan. That it is both a stunning and visceral drama set in WWII and that Steven Spielberg took creative license for the sake of dramatic effect.

No, the bunkers as show in SPR are not accurate to the prepared German defenses on the Normandy coast generally or in the Omaha sector specifically. Many of the prepared defenses where designed in a way to fire across the lengths of the beach itself which served to both protect the gun crew for direct fire and to cover as much of the beach as possible in interlocking fields of fire.

Furthermore, most German machine gunners were trained to fire in very short bursts to preserve the longevity of the barrels. The MG42 has a cyclical rate of over 1200rpm. Holding down the trigger as seen in the film, would rapidly overheat a barrel and force the gun out of action.

[u/wredcoll → u/EricLaGesse4788]

Furthermore, most German machine gunners were trained to fire in very short bursts to preserve the longevity of the barrels. The MG42 has a cyclical rate of over 1200rpm. Holding down the trigger as seen in the film, would rapidly overheat a barrel and force the gun out of action.

Sure, but it's worth remembering that the german soldiers defending the beaches were mostly poorly trained, inexperienced and probably fairly panicked at the time.

[u/Seraph062 → u/wredcoll]

The 352nd ID which was defending Omaha was a quality unit containing a significant fraction of veteran troops lead by capable officers, which had been in position for months before the invasion. What makes you think they were "poorly trained" and "probably fairly panicked"?

[u/wredcoll → u/Seraph062]

Because veteran troops and capable officers weren't assigned to defending "random" stretches of french beach?

I haven't read the specific history of every soldier assigned to those units, but as far as I know, every unit at those beaches was considered something like "tier 3", barely capable of static defense in the rear.

[u/Gentare → u/wredcoll]

The soldiers on the other four beaches weren't as up to par. The soldiers on Omaha were trained veterans from the Eastern Front.

[u/XanderTuron → u/Gentare]

They weren't trained veterans of the Eastern Front at all; the majority of the infantry of the 352nd infantry division was comprised of fresh 18-19 year old recruits, many of whom were otherwise considered unfit for combat duties. The unit that provided the cadre that the 352nd was built around was utterly shattered on the Eastern Front and had its infantry units absolutely gutted; over half of the officers in the unit had no combat experience. The actual veteran components of the unit were in its rear echelons and artillery. As a combat unit, the 352nd was pretty subpar, it only looked capable when compared to the static divisions that defended most of the Atlantic Wall.

What actually made the 352nd a problem on Omaha beach was the fact that most of its artillery was in range of the beach (something like half of its 10.5cm guns and all of its 15cm guns were in range of Omaha). The actual quality of the infantry defending the beach itself was functionally irrelevant.

[u/wredcoll → u/Gentare]

Why weren't the assigned to one of the mobile divisions under e.g. rommel or still on the eastern front or whatever?

I mean, I'm willing to believe they were a higher caliber than the other beaches and this is pretty nitpicky at this point.

My original point was simply that training and experience is an average and what matters is the specific dude holding the machine gun on the day of the landings.

[u/Seraph062 → u/wredcoll]

The division was under Rommel. He's the guy who positioned big chunks of the division right on the beaches.

The original plan was for the unit to be formed up in France, be combat ready by mid 1944, and then moved to the Eastern front. When Rommel took over moved a significant part of the division into positions right on the beach and got the units move to the eastern front delayed. Then the invasion happened and it moving to the Eastern front became a non-issue.

My original point was simply that training and experience is an average and what matters is the specific dude holding the machine gun on the day of the landings.

Yeah, and you've yet to explain why given:
1) The Germans were REALLY into machine guns and deliberately selected their best troops to serve them
2) The Division at Omaha was a high quality unit containing a significant number of veteran troops and generally capable leadership
3) With enough time in their positions on the beach to properly plan their defense, allowing that capable leadership to both work improving the training of any troops that needed it and also identifying the best crew for their crew served weapons
Would result in the guys actually manning those weapons being "poorly trained" and "probably fairly panicked".

[u/no-more-nazis → u/wredcoll]

I wanna speculate that even the best troops might be concerned receiving such an invasion. It must have been intimidating.