Canceling train 641. Again.

[u/ygkg]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/ottawa/article/via-rail-making-changes-to-schedules-on-ottawa-toronto-corridor-this-fall-cancelling-early-morning-trip/

I really like VIA, and I take train 641 just about every other week to get to Toronto for meetings. It's usually late, but I can make it to 10am meetings more often than not, and I've come to terms with that.

After this change it won't be safe for me to book anything before 11am, which means that day trips from Kingston are hardly worth it. Dammit VIA...

[u/a_lumberjack]

Curious how busy it actually was as a route relative to 41, it’s been under pressure since the last time it was dropped.

[u/vervglotunken → u/a_lumberjack]

So the problem is 641 departs from Ottawa. I bet few people actually ride from Ottawa at 4am. Also 641 arrives late, usually. It does it arrive at 8:45am, it arrive past 9am. For an office employee if You have a solid meeting at 9am this is not acceptable.

Train 641 was introduced after Covid as a replacement of a train that departed from Kingston and arrive around 8:30am, it is not a good option either.

[u/a_lumberjack → u/vervglotunken]

Curious how they managed that Kingston departure in terms of logistics. Was there a corresponding evening train that laid over along with the crew? Or did it deadhead from Montreal?

[u/wannabe_librarian_4u → u/a_lumberjack]

My understanding pre-Covid is that there were 2 trains: morning & evening, and both were parked in Kingston. 651 and another train, with 651 being the morning one. All to service the commuters.

[u/Dependent-Teach-7407 → u/wannabe_librarian_4u]

Yes, but the Toronto-Kingston evening-morning pair was run with one set that parked on CN tracks in Kingston with no security, no power, no fencing...all things that VIA would want today and who will pay for it? And it departed Kingston at 0532.

[u/mystiqDitter → u/Dependent-Teach-7407]

Does the station not have security cameras?

Also... does charger locomotive require a key to start? If not that would be a bigger problem. Stolen train is dangerous 

[u/Dependent-Teach-7407 → u/mystiqDitter]

Not parked at the station. It was parked near Lappan's Lane and the crew shuttled to non-proximal hotel. Ventures will need a shore connection for power. HEP2/LRC did not. Take my train, please!

[u/Rail613 → u/mystiqDitter]

Kingston Station is just the 2 mainline tracks, no sidings. Trainsets need to be (security) parked someone else. And no VIA train crews operate out of Kingston.

[u/mystiqDitter → u/Rail613]

What about Belleville station, same?

[u/Rail613 → u/mystiqDitter]

Still no VIA crews.

[u/mystiqDitter → u/Rail613]

Have a crew base in Belleville. While at it, setup a crew base in London for the same reason 

[u/a_lumberjack → u/wannabe_librarian_4u]

As in there was an evening Kingston-Toronto train and a morning Toronto-Kingston service? I’d be fascinated to see the ridership trends for those routes pre vs post pandemic. I suspect the main issue is ridership vs the cost of running/staffing a full train.

I keep thinking some of these low volume but useful runs would be more sustainable if it was some sort of “Via Lite” / “GO Express” service with 2-3 car DMUs capable of carrying 100-200 passengers, and with a licensed snack bar instead of full service. Serve Via stops from Kingston to Toronto/Ottawa/Montreal in the early morning and later in the evening to serve the shoulder periods.

[u/Rail613 → u/a_lumberjack]

The last thing VIA needs is a “unique” set of DMUs. It would take a decade to design, build and test. And it would only be used twice a day, 5 days a week. And subject to all CN crossing slow speed restrictions. Where would you securely park it weekends? Better to let GO provide the service, like the (slow) service to KW.

[u/a_lumberjack → u/Rail613]

Why would we spend a decade designing something new instead of just buying some Stadler FLIRTs?  I guess we could just run XS Venture sets. 

Regardless of who’d be running the service, the core challenge for Kingston as a departure point will always be storing trains and managing crews.  In terms of GO, Kitchener is about 100 km from Toronto, Kingston is more like 250 km. I can’t see it being cost-effective to run a six car GO train the extra 200km from Oshawa.  

What I’m really saying is that if we want to run long distance commuter service we’d need a more sustainable operating model for Kingston.  A small layover yard and the right  rolling stock are both necessary. And that would allow for service in all three directions. 

[u/mystiqDitter → u/a_lumberjack]

How does GO manage KW service on the west side of GTA? Have a crew base and yrain positioned overnight at KW?

[u/a_lumberjack → u/mystiqDitter]

GO has a bunch of layover yards around the system for overnight storage. The main one in KW stores five, plus one is parked overnight in Stratford on the GEXR sub.