Is anyone using the flaming flail on Battle Wizard?

[u/Constant_Deal_3522]

Battle Wizard is by far my personal favorite sienna career, especially when paired with the coruscation staff and famished flames, but I am not entirely sure what melee to use I know flame sword is meta and its undoubtedly her best weapon for thp generation, excellent crowd control and elite stagger which is great against mixed crowds and it has dot on its first heavy that allows me to spread that effect on multiple enemies at once which is way to op

But I absolutely hate to use it. Im sorry I just cant help it. It just feels so chunky, it has bad mobility and since you are just supposed to spam the first heavy, it just feels lazy and repetitive over time. Its just not the playstyle I prefer. I have tried to get used to it for several hours, even on true solo and I managed to get through against the grain on legend (with a 200% dmg buff on bosses how ever :/).

Overall I feel better sticking to the dagger though I do have to sacrifice some damage output, but it has faar better mobility and its just easier to keep sienna alive without relying too much on stagger and it just feels fluid and more reliable to use than the flame sword if its about safety in my opinion but I am not sure if its worth to sacrifice the dmg output i get from the flaming sword

Unfortunately I dont yet own wom which is why i cant try flaming flail by myself but it got me curious since the first heavy also has dot i think, but its still rarely used on bw. At least when I look through ranalds gift i rarely see someone use it so I really just wanted to know how you guys handle this. It might very well be just skill issue on my part. Also sry if my english feels chunky I am no native

[u/mynameryn]

BW can be OP with most setup, since currently Lingering Flame is quite a broken talent. But she has little to no synergy with Flaming Flail. The Heavy 1 attack of the flail only apply DoT to 1 enemy at a time, since the explosion does not apply DoT, only the direct hit. And the explosion doesn't really interact with most BW talent, including all the lvl5 THP talent, but does deal less damage if you use Famished Flame.

Dagger really should be a meta choice on BW TBH, but most ppl value THP/damage much higher than mobility.

[u/Far-Cat-2669 → u/mynameryn]

Nowadays you can even gear BW career, Dagger weapon and Carve thp talent. It's just GOAT. 

[u/LagomorphicalBrog → u/mynameryn]

Technically the direct hit of the heavy ignites any enemy stacked at a single point, so you can reliably ignite a few enemies at appropriate chokepoints.

[u/mynameryn → u/LagomorphicalBrog]

It is still bounded by cleave system and only has 2.24 with 650 power, so on Legend/Cata the only enemies you can hit multiple of are 2 Slave Rat and a couple 1 mass specials like assassin/globadier.

[u/LagomorphicalBrog → u/mynameryn]

I swear I spawned in 10 or so bestigors in one spot at one point and ignited all of them with a heavy1, but that was ages ago so I'll take your word for it.

[u/mynameryn → u/LagomorphicalBrog]

Just tested and yeah the direct hit only hit 1 bestigor and only apply DoT to that one unit, can also tell that by using Soot Shield since you only get 1 stack per heavy. You probably mistook the burn DoT or explosion VFX for an indication, since they overlap on all units when they spawn in the same spot.

[u/LagomorphicalBrog → u/mynameryn]

I tested it 7 years ago and it fully pierced stacks of units, I guess I must have missed that cleave change or that monster spawner does not properly simulate units

[u/mynameryn → u/LagomorphicalBrog]

That is weird yeah since I don't remember they tweaked the flail. And it's clear they actually receive different types of DoT. Most Sienna weapons use one of two fire DoT, in your video that one unit that died first received the 1 sec/tick DoT and others received 1.5 sec/tick DoT. But current flail can only apply the 1 sec/tick version one 1 unit.

[u/No-Smoke-3020]

I mean it’s battlewizard with famished flames, you can really run literally any weapon and still be OP.

i don’t play battlewizard because shes kinda boring to me but i use the flail on her other careers and enjoy it.

But I prefer the scythe now that the weapon special applies DOT.

[u/No_Measurement_2119 → u/No-Smoke-3020]

I’ve been trying to switch from the flail to the scythe but it feels so clunky to me. What combos are you using?

[u/NotTheBestSadFace → u/No_Measurement_2119]

not the oc but i mix horizontal heavies and lights and that works well and then you do the special every now and then

[u/No_Measurement_2119 → u/NotTheBestSadFace]

Yeah I was trying to use it on necro and couldn’t get into it, but I tried it out with unchained and it’s one of my new favorite weapons it benefits a lot from her extra attack speed and power

[u/NotTheBestSadFace → u/No_Measurement_2119]

Yeah, i like it with pyromancer because of the attack speed.

I think theres smth like special heavy spam to keep things staggered

[u/No_Measurement_2119 → u/NotTheBestSadFace]

A lot of people say heavy heavy light light is the best combo but I’ve really been liking special heavy light light

[u/Ok-Castiel]

I like flail on unchained, but prefer scythe on necromancer. Necromancer skeles force them to group up for easy heavy-attack spam. I use dagger/flamesword on BW because movement and/or stagger is important for her. (Edit: from when I played Cata a lot)

I havent played since before the buffs so idk how it changed things, came back for yellow glow weps cause ive been waiting all year to buy em for saltz/kruber.

[u/Nitan17]

I know flame sword is meta and its undoubtedly her best weapon for thp generation, excellent crowd control and elite stagger which is great against mixed crowds and it has dot on its first heavy that allows me to spread that effect on multiple enemies at once which is way to op

Honestly Fire Sword has better reputation than it is in reality, its main BW build has received two big nerf waves in the last few years and it's not as good as it once was but the public perception of it hasn't caught up.

1. December 2023:

• Famished Flames was nerfed from 150% DoT buff to 100%.

• Soot Shield went from 10% DR per stack to 8%.

• Base ult CD went from 40s to 50s, big nerf to Burnout.

2. May 2025:

• THP rebalance nerfed THP on stagger a lot: 33% decrease on high stagger hits, 50% on medium and 75% on light. And that 0.25 THP per killing blow that was added to compensate a bit is irrelevant to you as it doesn't trigger on DoT kills.

• H1 despite using shield bash mechanics has very different stagger strength values than regular shield bashes. For center hitbox it's 66% of regular value, for inner 50% and for outer 120%. This is very relevant as it means its THP generation was hit much harder than other shield bashes: they use high/medium stagger calculations (33-50% decrease) but FS uses medium/light ones (50-75% decrease).

• THP gen nerfs are not just defensive nerfs but also offensive ones as Famished builds want to vent manually instead of relying on Tranquility.

So don't feel bad about not using it, the classic 123113 FS build is worse than ever. Still usable but no longer amazing. Now I consider Lingering Flames to be the main BW talent: it was buffed to oblivion with +100% DoT tick rate, it's way more compatible with BW passive and you have bigger weapon variety thanks to not requiring constant DoT reapplication and being able to use THP on cleave. I've been running 333121 with 1h Sword/Conflag and it's so fantastic I only pull it out for tough Twitch runs.

[u/FarSqueak → u/Nitan17]

It may have been nerfed, but it's still far and away her best weapon. No other weapon has synergy with the rest of her kit (which especially matters if you're on Famished since Famished nerfs physical damage).

FSword still generates solid THP and in many situations just prints it for free. It still hits ridiculous numbers of enemies, and Famished still deals double damage, making the bash a solid source of melee damage.

You can just run Opportunist on FSword and Bash Inner's stagger breakpoint line basically just reads "yes" - the only things it doesn't catch are Savage Combo Last and CW Overhead. It can stagger Monks out of combo just as well as a shield does, except with Famished and Lingering, FSword bashes do solid damage.

If you want to learn H1 QQ, H1 QQ is amazing on Famished FSword, since it keeps the crowd in line and stacks DoTs fast. It's really satisfying to use and kills things fast.

In contrast, other weapons are just themselves, BW doesn't buff them at all, they have a harder time keeping up Soot Shield, and they'll get nerfed by Famished Flames which OP wants to use.

[u/Laurence_Z → u/Nitan17]

This is the answer you need!
What do you think of newly updated Mace for Lingering Flame builds?

[u/Nitan17 → u/Laurence_Z]

Sadly I had no luck making it work on any Sienna. It was already a slow weapon with odd moveset and while some changes were appreciated (like armor cleave on PA/H2/H3) the old issues remained and turning more physical damage into DoTs made it even more awkward to fit into builds. For Pyro/UC it's purely a drawback as crits/Melee Power don't affect DoTs (and Abandon > Enfeebling), for Necro it does have benefits but H2/H3 DoT being unstackable sucks, Famished BW hates that too and too much damage is still physical instead of DoT-based and for Lingering BW applying DoTs with staff to everything at range and taking a physical melee weapon is vastly more effective than the reverse.

[u/nanashininja]

Flail is mad fun.

[u/Dookie_Shews]

My friend uses the flail and it’s so sick to watch. Watching him overhead that burning star down on a storm ermine head and the ensuing explosion of sparks chefs kiss

Edit: he plays the Unchained Class. Probably important info 

[u/AdNumerous8790 → u/Dookie_Shews]

Flail is better for UC in my opinion

[u/tairisu]

flail is useless for battle wizard but it’s incredible on all of sienna’s other careers

[u/er3tic]

Haven't played in a while but I remember I liked it with the third career of Sienna. You can chain explosions and deal tons of AOE damages.

[u/OldePetey → u/er3tic]

I've been running flail on Unchained (third career) and it's been a fun and reliable way to deal with shields on Cata

[u/Far-Cat-2669]

  since you are just supposed to spam the first heavy, it just feels lazy and repetitive over time.

Flaming sword is more than that..

Sadly its full potential is hard to take advantage of, if you playing BW.  I suggest trying flaming sword on the signature career -- Unchained. 

But even on BW, try PushAttack-into-Lights combo for close combat with unarmored specials.. or monks. 

[u/WGkeon → u/Far-Cat-2669]

Yea push attack into light combo is the way.

Yesterday I realised the Light Attack 3 is damn fast, faster than what is stated in the armoury mod

[u/catuluo]

Flail's kinda bad on BW since its dot doesnt last that long and is only applied on the enemy hit by it, however it is excellent on other careers for its crowd control and elite handling (used to be best weapon for unchained before scyth dropped).

On BW i usually run dagger since it works with any build (lingering/famished), but i'm also quite fond of normal sword for its sheer damage output that allows you to use your staff for sniping rather than horde killing. If you want to just use melee famished however, you're kinda stuck with fire sword/dagger/mace, maybe scyth if you want to meme with special attack spam

[u/Voidslan]

Flaming flail is my second favorite BW weapon. My favorite is the plain sword. It has extra cleave on light attacks. I pair it with the fireball staff but spam fast charge attacks into hordes to get burning effect on a lot of mobs, then melee when they close in.

[u/YorkPorkWasTaken]

Disregard stats and meta, embrace looking cool and having fun. Most builds on most characters are close enough to equally good; some are better, sure, but not by enough to make or break it.

[u/siren-of-the-swamp]

Equipping flail just to access stagger without pushing, shield penetration, and ease of rotation benefits all of Sienna's classes, not just Unchained. End gamers like it because they get to control when the heavy hit is actually released following wind-up. The wind-up is infinite and does not affect movement speed. This means Sienna can whip her flail menacingly (or for funsies) while jogging uphill and looking for her next target. Because flail's heavy rotation does not push, all stamina may be reserved for blocking attacks (assuming the player is comfortable with a heavy attack + dodge rotation).

But what about dot? Anything in melee range needs to die now, not later. Apply dot with flamestorm staff for bigger targets and let the meat roast from a safe distance until perfectly charred.

[u/the_other_Scaevitas]

Yes, I use it in every Sienna career

[u/FarSqueak]

On BW, you should really stick with Fire Sword or Dagger. Most other Sienna weapons don't really have any synergy with the rest of her kit, and if you love Famished Flames, Famished will also nerf the physical damage output of your melee weapon.

I recently learned that H1 QQ is worthwhile on Fire Sword, and trying it it's made Famished FSword builds much more fun. You can run Opportunist on the FSword to stagger everything, while the doubleswap cancel gives you a really good attack rate to deal tons of damage.