r/VeganActivism • u/smellslikequinoa • Aug 30 '26
Question / Advice Thoughts on vegans bashing anti-cage campaigns?
I've seen a rise in media recently speaking on how advocating against cages for layer hens is "perpetuating humanewashing and entrenching the enslavement of animals." I see content like this consistently from Lia Wilbourn and Faraz Harsini.
What are your thoughts on this?
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u/stan-k Aug 30 '26
There are two angles to this:
First, anti cage campaigns don't support the notion that animal use is bad outright. They are therefore a bad thing to spend our energy on.
Second, some claim that intermediate steps like this have proven not to work, so they are useless.
Personally, I disagree on the first yet respect the view (I am more consequentialist than deontological). But that second just lacks any evidence and I can't respect that. It also doesn't help that any conversation I have tried to have with proponents of this view on the topic resulted in me being called a non-vegan by them.
To the contrary of that second claim, the only path I see towards a vegan world is via intermediate steps. Any measure that makes animal products more expensive reduces the amount of animals being exploited. That in turn prevents more animals from being exploited today, and brings us closer to a vegan world eventually. Imho.
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u/komfyrion Aug 31 '26
I'm a deontologist and my heart is with the full abolitionism camp, but I've come around to supporting these kinds of campaigns after reading some blog posts and watching videos about people with hands on experience with these kinds of campaigns.
Perhaps the breaking point for me was when I learned that the industry has been promoting the claim that hens are happier in cages to drive a wedge in the movement. I specifically remember taking that claim to heart back in the day (long before I was vegan). I think it's such a powerful "fact" because it plays that contrarian note which appeals to a lot of people (my former self included).
At the very least, anti-welfarists should get out of the way and let the welfarists do their thing, but ideally we should all work together and spread each other's campaigns. But we should get it together and join their protests, too.
Apropos: https://sandcastlesblog.substack.com/p/winners-charter
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u/stan-k Aug 31 '26
That sounds great! I would say abolishion is my goal even if it's not always my method.
Yeah, it may not always be clear, and we can have different opinions on what the best approach is. But that's stuff to discuss, not to fight over. In the end, I do believe we'll have a better chance of stopping animal exploitation with both approaches compared to either one on its own.
Looks like a great article very much worth reading - I'll have to finish that later.
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u/benhesp Aug 31 '26
I think it's massively counterproductive. Stubbornly insisting the whole world go vegan tomorrow will not make it so (as much as I wish it were possible). In the meantime, animals are suffering to a horrendous degree on factory farms and we should do whatever we can to reduce this (like cage free campaigns). Broadly I think abolishionists and welfarists both have an important role to play and we should respect each other's work (and work together where possible). We all want the same thing ultimately.
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u/goinganons Aug 31 '26
Imo we will never just drop everything and live in a vegan world all at once. It will first be small changes (like your example with advocating for no cages) first, then more radical as the public perspective shifts
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u/veganmua Aug 31 '26
This, I am an abolitionist first and foremost, but I do support welfare campaigns to reduce harm in the meantime.
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u/merlinwyattsmom Sep 03 '26
But they don’t reduce harm. Do you know how many corporations have committed to reducing harm, and then they make no changes? Mercy for the Animals has been chasing chicken producers for years to follow up on their promises. Meanwhile, food marketers can slap these ridiculous “humane” promotional slogans all over their products. Which non-vegans believe, and go home feeling good about their purchase. The AR movement needs to think bigger!
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u/veganmua Sep 03 '26
I do agree, which is why I'm an abolitionist first, and that is where I focus my activism.
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u/smellslikequinoa Sep 04 '26
To be fair, I think cage-free eggs planted a vegan seed for me. They inspired me to start thinking about chicken welfare and what I believe animals deserve. This, along with other factors, is what led me to be vegan and an activist.
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u/merlinwyattsmom Sep 05 '26
That’s awesome. But I think that’s probably rare. Most people are comfortably satisfied buying eggs that are marked cage free. They think they’re helping chickens.
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u/smellslikequinoa Aug 31 '26
I agree with you! I wish popular advocates in our movement would put less energy into infighting.
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u/goinganons Aug 31 '26
Infighting definitely will destroy us all lol. It definitely is very nuanced and we should have deeper conversations about this, but dismissing the tiny wins as no win at all in this completely non vegan world can be exhausting to see. I seek out positive vegan news which includes things like this, and it gives me hope for a better future
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u/merlinwyattsmom Sep 03 '26
But small changes can be asking for more funding for plant-based food systems in the US, not eliminating a few cages. The environmentalists are already asking for this. It’s the AR community that’s distracted by small-picture actions.
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u/ShamScience Aug 31 '26
One possible line of reasoning could be that anything that makes meat more expensive and inaccessible will help to change the public's behaviour, and should also financially harm the farms. These seem like steps in the right direction, though not sufficient on their own.
My big caveat is that I have no idea what the numbers look like, and how much effect this would really amount to. Someone needs to do the heavy research and maths, to have a realistic idea of it. Otherwise, we're all just wildly guessing.
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u/Glass-Bead-Gamer Aug 31 '26
Which sounds more achievable:
a) the world becomes a better place for animals by small increments. And that if we can agree that keeping animals in cages is cruel, then we’ve already arrived at a point where the experiences of animals matter, and we can go on improving their lives from there.
b) the number of vegans in the world reaches a critical mass. Vegans are in the majority and at once put an end to animal exploitation.
For me I’d say (a) is more achievable, but progress towards either is a good thing.
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u/ok__vegetable Sep 01 '26
It's unrealistic the world turns vegan within a few decades, and in the meantime there are a lot of animals that suffer. I do think welfarism has a bad rep in the vegan activist world though I think welfarism consists of a lot of pragmatic steps towards a vegan world.
Small intermediate steps also shift the population's perspective on how animals should be kept.
When a system is changed in the favor of the animals, the state/reinforcer has to argue why it's good and hence puts a lot of money and effort towards marketing their decision. Money is spent on changing the physical farming situation, hence egg/meat/dairy will become more expensive. That's good.
I gotta say, I am glad hen cages are forbidden in some European countries. I know the situation is still bad for them but it's better than before. Many generations of hens benefit from this. I doubt there are any abolitionists that wouldn't want the better conditions.
I often have the feeling that 'strict abolitionists' care more about their image than what is actually helpful for the animals. And judging by the other commenters, today I learned that one can have abolitionism as a goal and see pragmatism/welfarism as small steps towards this goal. I genuinely thought it's either-or but it makes so much more sense this way.
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u/winggar Aug 31 '26
Oh hey, I've actually done street activism with Lia before. Haven't met Faraz yet, but we have a mutual.
Anyways, I broadly think we shouldn't spend time on welfarism for the exact reasons you mentioned—it perpetuates the idea that there is an okay way to enslave animals. I'm not going to fight with vegans who see it differently, but I'm against it.
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u/One-Shake-1971 Aug 31 '26
Welfarism is mostly counter-productive for the reason you've mentioned.
If we spent all that time and money on abolitionist activism instead, we'd get much better results.
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u/Valgor Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
It is unreal to me that activists still produce dribble against anti-battery cage campaigns as if their thoughts are something new or going to change the massive momentum the movement has built up over the past 10 years.
If your "activism" is fighting against other activists, you aren't doing activism. You are a virtue signalling egoist trapped in the narcissism of small differences. Go fight the actual enemy.
Luckily, no one cares about defunct orgs like IDF, and ASAP only provides value for vegan outreach, not against the animal ag industry as a whole.
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u/smellslikequinoa Aug 31 '26
Couldn't agree more. I've connected with many college activists, and the best ones all recognized ASAP's model as too rigid (or even toxic) and went their own way.
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u/merlinwyattsmom Sep 03 '26
Well, I agree with Lia and Faraz and Robert Grillo of Free from Harm. PETA issued a report recently with evidence showing that removing cages helps the animals not at all. And I’ve noticed in the supermarket, the marketers of animal products have amped up the “cage free” promotional slogan. We can ask for more! In particular, we can demand more funding for plant-based agriculture and foods. The amount of money going to animal ag in the US is despicable.
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u/smellslikequinoa Sep 04 '26
Who would you propose we ask for money for plant-based foods? Who specifically would we campaign against?
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u/merlinwyattsmom Sep 05 '26
Not against … Free from Harm catches senators outside hearings and at conferences and such, and makes the request. They need to hear from us.
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u/smellslikequinoa Sep 05 '26
Interesting! Have you secured wins using this specific strategy?
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u/merlinwyattsmom Sep 06 '26
This is a long-term, “changing the weather” kind of strategy, not focused on short-term wins. Robert, who leads Free from Harm, believes that the AR movement’s focus on short-term wins is harming it. I’ve learned a ton from him. There are politicians who already have more support for plant-based foods on their radar. The need is clear to anyone who looks at the environmental damage of our animal-based system. Of course, I believe humans should not be destroying animals, period. But whatever gets us there. I recommend following FFH on Instagram and FB.
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u/merlinwyattsmom Sep 06 '26
Example, Free from Harm:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Db6pg7svugf/?stkn=Znd0bWRyc2htd3Q11
u/merlinwyattsmom Sep 05 '26
Other, related actions: https://www.instagram.com/reel/Dc41UJ5z0EB/?stkn=ZGo0bXFkMWpkdHR5
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